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On October 16 2020 00:55 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2020 00:36 Doodsmack wrote:
Given what happened with the collusion investigation, and the wrench it threw into the wheels of Trump's presidency for two years, it would be entirely just for any and all info on it to come out before the election. Transparency is good. The NYT is slow-rolling the release of Trump's illegally leaked tax returns, too, for election, I mean transparency purposes. There is no point for them to rush it, nothing is happening to Trump while he is president, so sooner won't start any earlier further investigations. There business does better with multiple bombshells not one. And finally, if you believe he is a tax cheat, and all the other reasons you have uncovered on why he should not be president, and especially if it rises to the level of where you believe he is a danger to the country and democracy, exactly why would you not release the info in the best way to harm his chances to win? Also, transparency is the job of the government. The job of the media is to try to hold them accountable when they are not being transparent or honest. There is no reason that the news should have to release everything all at once. This is clearly just sour grapes that they are getting your boy. When what you should be thinking is holy shit how bad is Trump that they could queue up bombshell after bombshell for weeks on end about his corruption and incompetence. With past candidates you would be lucky as a media organization to find one, with Trump you have so many you have to schedule them. This is incredibly messed up.
Well half of what they are putting out, such as the insider trading accusation, is just spin/misinformation. They're not actual bombshells so I don't see a need to slow-roll. If they had actual bombshells from the tax returns, we'd have seen it in the first installment. More likely they are planning to use spin and innuendo to damage his election chances.
And I say this as someone who believes their story from a year or two ago about Fred Trump's inheritance was an actual bombshell. For some reason that story doesn't seem to have stuck though.
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At some point even shit slide off.
Wasn't Trump only paying 750$ of federal taxes enough for you ?
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On October 16 2020 06:48 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2020 04:19 Nevuk wrote:The hunter biden story is getting uh, dumber the more I read into it. (The one that's supposedly being censored). Hunter forgets to pick up a laptop that he dropped off for repair. Ok, that's not THAT weird, especailly for a crack cocaine addict. Said repairshop is not only in a different state, it's across the country from where he lives (delaware instead of LA). Getting weirder. Said forgotten laptop has emails on the hard drive that "prove" a sketchy connection between Ukraine and Joe Biden. Makes him forgetting about it a lot stranger. Repairman at laptop place waits 12 months before contacting Rudy Giuliani (of all people) with the dirt, after having made a copy of it in a... less than legal manner. If the repair person wanted to be believed, he should have gone to someone else. The info comes out 2 weeks before the election. Giuliani keeps changing his story on where he got the laptop. (He's now claiming it was totally legal since Hunter was drunk and signed a contract saying if he forgot it for 90 days the repairshop owned it https://www.mediaite.com/radio/rudy-giuliani-changes-laptop-story-now-claims-hunter-biden-left-it-at-store/ ) A user on a far right message board (specifically, the r/thedonald replacement site) with names like “Freedom_USA_88" was bragging about it before it even dropped. This timeline of events is so stupid I'm not sure I'd buy it if even if it was Don Jr. doing it. Crack can make you do stupid, crazy stuff. I doubt it can make your opponents act like idiots too. The reason it was being censored is that twitter and facebook have policies that ban stories based on hacked info, apparently, and the basic assumption is that the info (if true) was almost certainly hacked, not just ... handed over by Hunter Biden and forgotten about. Banned from sharing on Twitter. Rehost from a senate judiciary committee was banned from being shared on twitter. Second story from same outlet (New York Post) regarding Chinese allegations, banned from being shared. Facebook higher-up says that they'll be limiting its distribution. Yeah, the censorship is a way bigger story now. They're inventing standards to try to arrive at one they can hold both sides to, but nobody's buying it (well, except for a few extremely partisan or gullible people). They're better off pulling a TeamLiquid and saying their actions will be done in a subjective manner at the discretion of the moderators. In other news, Scully has admitted to lying about being hacked and has been suspended. He was formerly chosen to be a debate moderator.
They’re too big to operate on an ad hoc discretionary manner, equally they’ve been way, way too slow in constructing some kind of actual consistent standard of what they publish. Which of course they don’t publish because they’re an aggregator.
I’ve been for many years now in favour of dragging social media aggregators to similar standards that other media operate under, and I think I’ve articulated it here.
Now? Seems a complete mess far as I can tell. The latest stuff seems to the smell test to be absolute bollocks, but the mechanisms and rationales behind locking sharing such stories seems specious to me anyway.
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On October 16 2020 08:17 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2020 00:55 JimmiC wrote:On October 16 2020 00:36 Doodsmack wrote:
Given what happened with the collusion investigation, and the wrench it threw into the wheels of Trump's presidency for two years, it would be entirely just for any and all info on it to come out before the election. Transparency is good. The NYT is slow-rolling the release of Trump's illegally leaked tax returns, too, for election, I mean transparency purposes. There is no point for them to rush it, nothing is happening to Trump while he is president, so sooner won't start any earlier further investigations. There business does better with multiple bombshells not one. And finally, if you believe he is a tax cheat, and all the other reasons you have uncovered on why he should not be president, and especially if it rises to the level of where you believe he is a danger to the country and democracy, exactly why would you not release the info in the best way to harm his chances to win? Also, transparency is the job of the government. The job of the media is to try to hold them accountable when they are not being transparent or honest. There is no reason that the news should have to release everything all at once. This is clearly just sour grapes that they are getting your boy. When what you should be thinking is holy shit how bad is Trump that they could queue up bombshell after bombshell for weeks on end about his corruption and incompetence. With past candidates you would be lucky as a media organization to find one, with Trump you have so many you have to schedule them. This is incredibly messed up. Well half of what they are putting out, such as the insider trading accusation, is just spin/misinformation. They're not actual bombshells so I don't see a need to slow-roll. If they had actual bombshells from the tax returns, we'd have seen it in the first installment. More likely they are planning to use spin and innuendo to damage his election chances. And I say this as someone who believes their story from a year or two ago about Fred Trump's inheritance was an actual bombshell. For some reason that story doesn't seem to have stuck though. Look back in January 2022 (to be generous with time) and see if any of the tax stuff had legs.
A prosecutor can go now and get stuck in the legal quagmire of trying to charge a sitting President with the head of the DoJ acting as his personal lawyer or they can wait till February and charge a (not entirely) normal citizen.
I would not be surprised at all if there is a stack of indictments sitting around just waiting for his Presidency to end.
(which is also why I wouldn't be surprised if he is on a plane heading for Russia during Biden's inauguration)
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Holy shit lol. The laptop repair shop owner who turned over the computer to Giuliani admitted he was legally blind in that same interview earlier where Giuliani changed his story. He can't even identify who gave him the laptop in question because he can't see well enough to do that, by his own admission.
I'm not sure this is even meets the minimum bar of beating one of Jacob Wohl's absurd stories.
FWIW, the thing that's not being denied is that a meeting was discussed. That's it. Biden has denied that any meeting happened.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On October 16 2020 09:06 Nevuk wrote:
Holy shit lol. The laptop repair shop owner who turned over the computer to Giuliani admitted he was legally blind in that same interview earlier where Giuliani changed his story. He can't even identify who gave him the laptop in question because he can't see well enough to do that, by his own admission.
I'm not sure this is even meets the minimum bar of beating one of Jacob Wohl's absurd stories.
FWIW, the thing that's not being denied is that a meeting was discussed. That's it. Biden has denied that any meeting happened.
What?
Maybe I’m getting old and my ability to keep track of things is in sharp decline (probably the case given my current SC shape) but I have such a hard time in keeping on top of what even is being alleged in some of these scandals.
Perhaps the ostensible left is better at packaging them or they have more to work with, but hey ‘here’s what we have on Trump’s tax situation and also being under audit doesn’t prevent you releasing them like he claimed’ is something I can follow and assess.
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On October 16 2020 08:14 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Yea something like that I could see have an effect, if he does something that blatantly showcases his contempt for the voter base then sure. But nepotism or corruption? I can't see anyone going from biden to trump because of that, and I can't see a whole lot of would-be bideners abstaining either for that reason - because nepotism or corruption aren't areas where Trump is looking any better regardless of what the findings are.
I agree that almost no evidence of nepotism or corruption could change the outcome of the election significantly. "Almost", because if that evidence has Biden or someone close to him saying something easily quotable in a headline, then I think it could do something. Something like "Don't worry man, we'll find you a nice cozy job. We take care of our friends". The scale of corruption doesn't really matter, what's important is having something that is said or written in a simple language and makes the candidate look particularly sleazy.
All those scandals didn't hurt Trump too much because he kept denying or ignoring the evidence, and that's usually enough to survive until public attention shifts elsewhere (and Trump's really good at creating new hot topics). He was forced to enter damage control mode in the pussy grabbing scandal because there was a recording of him saying those words. If you had something similar (instead of "anonymous sources in the white house") related to corruption during his presidency, that could sink him.
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On October 16 2020 09:06 Nevuk wrote:
Holy shit lol. The laptop repair shop owner who turned over the computer to Giuliani admitted he was legally blind in that same interview earlier where Giuliani changed his story. He can't even identify who gave him the laptop in question because he can't see well enough to do that, by his own admission.
I'm not sure this is even meets the minimum bar of beating one of Jacob Wohl's absurd stories.
FWIW, the thing that's not being denied is that a meeting was discussed. That's it. Biden has denied that any meeting happened.
I don't think the NY Post would be telling us they're in possession of a hunter biden sextape if they were not in possession of a computer closely connected to hunter biden. I mean if the entire computer shop story is a lie or ruse that'd be quite something, but to me it looks truthful.
BTW Biden said he couldn't rule out that he met with the person. Which is a definite retreat from what he has said before about his knowledge of his son's activities and connections.
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On October 16 2020 08:46 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2020 08:17 Doodsmack wrote:On October 16 2020 00:55 JimmiC wrote:On October 16 2020 00:36 Doodsmack wrote:
Given what happened with the collusion investigation, and the wrench it threw into the wheels of Trump's presidency for two years, it would be entirely just for any and all info on it to come out before the election. Transparency is good. The NYT is slow-rolling the release of Trump's illegally leaked tax returns, too, for election, I mean transparency purposes. There is no point for them to rush it, nothing is happening to Trump while he is president, so sooner won't start any earlier further investigations. There business does better with multiple bombshells not one. And finally, if you believe he is a tax cheat, and all the other reasons you have uncovered on why he should not be president, and especially if it rises to the level of where you believe he is a danger to the country and democracy, exactly why would you not release the info in the best way to harm his chances to win? Also, transparency is the job of the government. The job of the media is to try to hold them accountable when they are not being transparent or honest. There is no reason that the news should have to release everything all at once. This is clearly just sour grapes that they are getting your boy. When what you should be thinking is holy shit how bad is Trump that they could queue up bombshell after bombshell for weeks on end about his corruption and incompetence. With past candidates you would be lucky as a media organization to find one, with Trump you have so many you have to schedule them. This is incredibly messed up. Well half of what they are putting out, such as the insider trading accusation, is just spin/misinformation. They're not actual bombshells so I don't see a need to slow-roll. If they had actual bombshells from the tax returns, we'd have seen it in the first installment. More likely they are planning to use spin and innuendo to damage his election chances. And I say this as someone who believes their story from a year or two ago about Fred Trump's inheritance was an actual bombshell. For some reason that story doesn't seem to have stuck though. What do you mean hasn't stuck? I was under the impression this is currently being investigated along with other crimes but they are waiting until after the presidency because Barr has him under his protection currently.
Well at least in the media it doesn't seem to be discussed anymore. I understand the NY AG and/or manhattan DA is investigating the Trump Organization for something or other. If they are declining to prosecute until Trump leaves office, that has everything to do with the Constitution and nothing to do with Barr.
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On October 16 2020 09:34 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2020 08:14 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Yea something like that I could see have an effect, if he does something that blatantly showcases his contempt for the voter base then sure. But nepotism or corruption? I can't see anyone going from biden to trump because of that, and I can't see a whole lot of would-be bideners abstaining either for that reason - because nepotism or corruption aren't areas where Trump is looking any better regardless of what the findings are. All those scandals didn't hurt Trump too much because he kept denying or ignoring the evidence, and that's usually enough to survive until public attention shifts elsewhere (and Trump's really good at creating new hot topics). He was forced to enter damage control mode in the pussy grabbing scandal because there was a recording of him saying those words. If you had something similar (instead of "anonymous sources in the white house") related to corruption during his presidency, that could sink him.
Well we have him on tape from back in February(?) saying he knows how deadly covid is and admitting to purposefully downplaying it. That seems more important to me than any nepotism charges considering we are still in the depths of the pandemic and his continuing to behave like it isn't even serious. But no, Hunter Biden sex tape.
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On October 16 2020 10:03 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2020 09:06 Nevuk wrote:
Holy shit lol. The laptop repair shop owner who turned over the computer to Giuliani admitted he was legally blind in that same interview earlier where Giuliani changed his story. He can't even identify who gave him the laptop in question because he can't see well enough to do that, by his own admission.
I'm not sure this is even meets the minimum bar of beating one of Jacob Wohl's absurd stories.
FWIW, the thing that's not being denied is that a meeting was discussed. That's it. Biden has denied that any meeting happened. I don't think the NY Post would be telling us they're in possession of a hunter biden sextape if they were not in possession of a computer closely connected to hunter biden. I mean if the entire computer shop story is a lie or ruse that'd be quite something, but to me it looks truthful. BTW Biden said he couldn't rule out that he met with the person. Which is a definite retreat from what he has said before about his knowledge of his son's activities and connections.
Computer shop guy could literally be innocent, and it could be connected to Hunter Biden, with it still being a crock of shit.
Here's how it goes.
Pay some people to rob Hunter Biden of his laptop. This part is easy, the guy is a crack addict.
Find the nearest blind computer repairshop person, which happens to be 2000 miles away because well, that's a rarity.
Send in person to ask for a laptop repair and tell them to imitate Hunter being drunk, and loudly mention being Hunter Biden a couple dozen times. Be sure to be as obnoxious as possible so the owner won't forget about it.
Fast forward a couple weeks, have Rudy contact the shop owner and ask if he knows anything about Hunter Biden's laptop.
That's all a bit of a reach, but it's still way more plausible than a crack addict driving two thousand miles to a hire a blind repair person.
What's being alleged, even before whether or not what's on the laptop is fake, is that every step of the story of how they claim it was obtained it is implausibly absurd.
Far more likely than either the scenario I gave or the one Rudy gave is that significant amounts of illegal hacking was involved. If the info is true - which we may never know. Hunter, being a crackhead, may not know if he wrote those emails or not. They're not exactly a group renowned for their perfect memory.
Also, just because they have some true information (a sex tape) doesn't mean it's all true information. This is the biggest headache intelligence agencies have about politically motivated hackers (especially state ones. No one is claiming Russia or any specific actors were involved, but it's both the right timing and the type of thing they love): that they will release a mixture of true and fake documents from a supposed hack.
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I think the family is from Delaware and that's where biden lives so it's not implausible that hunter would have been there. The hack theory appears to be pure speculation. We have as much reason to believe hunters computer was hacked as we do to believe trumps tax returns were hacked by china.
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Come on man, just give up on this one. It's not worth defending.
The worst thing alleged in the emails is that Biden once met someone Hunter introduced him to. That's less than a nothing burger, and is something we already could have known based on the fact they're related and not estranged.
This is quite literally the ONLY reason to even consider them as true: they don't show anything damaging.
The emails are not actually provided. Instead, pdfs were provided of the emails. This is eye brow raising, and is part of why they shouldn't be considered at all by honest journalists.
The receipt given by the repair owner of the timing of when the laptops were dropped off syncs up perfectly with when Giuliani kicked his Ukraine misadventures into high gear.
The owner is also clearly unreasonably paranoid. There's nothing worth his life in those emails, but he thinks there was.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/man-who-reportedly-gave-hunters-laptop-to-rudy-speaks-out-in-bizarre-interview
Security experts all over have chimed in that these are worthless at best, and have exposed the owner to considerable charges for theft of property.
“It seems like a complete fabrication,” former U.S. Attorney and national security law expert Barb McQuade told Salon. “What are the chances that an anonymous person abandons a laptop that contains evidence about the very same conspiracy theory that Trump and Giuliani have been pursuing for more than a year? The subpoena is meaningless, because it has no tie whatsoever to Hunter Biden on its face. This seems like a desperate effort to get this talking point back in the news.”
They were also initially directed to the NY Post by Steve Bannon, who was charged with defrauding republicans barely a month ago!
The story also contained flat out false hoods that should have been caught by an editor.
Basically, on one side you have security experts, independent lawyers (ie, not Biden's), and journalists at reputable papers. On the other side you have people who already have a track record of fraudulently trying to tie Biden to Ukraine, who were the people who got Trump impeached through their sheer incompetence at the matter, and others just indicted on fraud charges.
The NY Post's reporter is perhaps the only credible person involved, and they missed very basic fact checking, blindly repeating a partisan lie.
Even Fox's panels talking about this have been pointing out that it sounds weird and sketchy.
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So who was it that was saying it was all polosi's fault for the covid bill, that aged like milk if i do say so myself. GOP suddenly concerned with 'fiscal restraint' after 4 years of deficit spending. God I hope dems get rid of the filibuster.
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The question is whether you'd be calling for don Jr and sr to be investigated if jr did the same thing shortly before his dad pressed ukraine for action on something. Dems have been very quick to try to criminalize trump in recent years.
BTW people like Barb McQuade and outlets like salon and wapo are firmly in the "criminalize trump" camp. Just take a glance at their Twitter accounts. The insider trading accusation being only the latest example.
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I like how this romp through ridiculous right-wing propaganda ignores, as ever, that of course shit would be different with Trump and his children, because he's the president and they have official positions as such. Ignoring all the other reasons why the Hunter thing is a whole who-gives-a-fuck, there is a legitimate reason why it should be different with Trump.
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United States24805 Posts
On October 16 2020 12:07 Doodsmack wrote:
The question is whether you'd be calling for don Jr and sr to be investigated if jr did the same thing shortly before his dad pressed ukraine for action on something. Dems have been very quick to try to criminalize trump in recent years.
BTW people like Barb McQuade and outlets like salon and wapo are firmly in the "criminalize trump" camp. Just take a glance at their Twitter accounts. The insider trading accusation being only the latest example.
What do you mean when you say "criminalize trump"? Do you mean...
- Frame Trump for a crime he did not commit with the intent of legal repercussions.
- Frame Trump for a crime he did not commit with the intent of non-legal repercussion (i.e., lose the next election).
- Change the law to make Trump's previous behavior illegal, but with no intent on legal repercussions due to expost facto restrictions.
- Change the law to make Trump's previous behavior illegal, and aim for legal repercussions despite expost facto restrictions.
- Change the law to make Trump's previous behavior illegal with the expectation that Trump will continue that behavior after it becomes illegal.
- Draw attention to Trump's actual criminal behavior to effect legal repercussions.
- Lie with claims that Trump did something illegal to cause non-legal repercussions.
- Something else.
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EPT
