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On October 09 2020 19:37 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 16:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Didn't know anarchists were such flag nerds. That's kind of funny. Go look up Ego balls or whatever they're call, tons and tons of amusing comics featuring anarchists of various kinds bickering. Not sure where you'd actually find them when hunting, they're usually something I just come across on Facebook
Couldn't find them, Ego balls seems to be the wrong name. Let me know if you find out :p
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On October 09 2020 20:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 19:37 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 16:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Didn't know anarchists were such flag nerds. That's kind of funny. Go look up Ego balls or whatever they're call, tons and tons of amusing comics featuring anarchists of various kinds bickering. Not sure where you'd actually find them when hunting, they're usually something I just come across on Facebook Couldn't find them, Ego balls seems to be the wrong name. Let me know if you find out :p
Think it's these https://www.reddit.com/r/Polcompball/
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Jesus I gotta study those flags i don't get half the jokes.
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Yep, same here.
And Anarcho-Transfeminism seems inexistent even in these comics. WTF is anarcho-transfeminism?
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On October 09 2020 18:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 17:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Flags are simple, cheap, and effective propaganda. It's why every country and so many groups of all stripes have them. They are symbols, not propaganda. Just putting there the meaning of propaganda from the Webster dictionary: Show nested quote +2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause
also : a public action having such an effect Hardly see how flags qualify.
Symbols can be propaganda. The US flag and various display configurations are salient examples most everyone is familiar with.
As another example: someone sees an unfamiliar flag, asks its meaning, it has now served to spread ideas and information meant to help an institution/group. (Curiosity often motivates people to learn more)
"Thin Blue Line American Flag" is another.
Or they can be more straightforward: the rainbow is slightly more ambiguous).
+ Show Spoiler +
Simple, effective, propaganda.
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On October 09 2020 20:36 misirlou wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 20:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 09 2020 19:37 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 16:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Didn't know anarchists were such flag nerds. That's kind of funny. Go look up Ego balls or whatever they're call, tons and tons of amusing comics featuring anarchists of various kinds bickering. Not sure where you'd actually find them when hunting, they're usually something I just come across on Facebook Couldn't find them, Ego balls seems to be the wrong name. Let me know if you find out :p Think it's these https://www.reddit.com/r/Polcompball/
My goodness. Every so often it becomes clear just how hard people work to construct an in-group differentiated from every other in-group they can think of.
Do we need to assign balls to ourselves? I think we do.
https://polcompball.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_ideology_balls
+ Show Spoiler +
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You mean, clear how hard people work to make badly drawn comics in a reddit circle jerk perhaps communicated through the social media that is facebook? Clear how easily people are influenced when facing the unknown infomation, they must think this is accurate because they face a mass of badly drawn pictures in a "meme" format. When things like Hive-Mind Collectivism and Feudalism are part of the "balls" that are officially recognised, that suggests that it's a pile of crap, not an perceptive insight into some sort of idealogy or into the use of symbols.
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On October 09 2020 21:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 18:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 09 2020 17:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
Flags are simple, cheap, and effective propaganda. It's why every country and so many groups of all stripes have them. They are symbols, not propaganda. Just putting there the meaning of propaganda from the Webster dictionary: 2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause
also : a public action having such an effect Hardly see how flags qualify. Symbols can be propaganda. The US flag and various display configurations are salient examples most everyone is familiar with. As another example: someone sees an unfamiliar flag, asks its meaning, it has now served to spread ideas and information meant to help an institution/group. (Curiosity often motivates people to learn more) "Thin Blue Line American Flag" is another. Or they can be more straightforward: the rainbow is slightly more ambiguous). + Show Spoiler +Simple, effective, propaganda.
A flag represents an idea, an entity or an institution. Like, I am at sea, I want people to know that my ship is french, I put a blue, white, red piece of cloth at the top of it, and everyone knows I am french because we have all agreed that this colour pattern means "France". That's faster, more efficient and easier than writing "France" everywhere.
Or I am an ambassador and I want people to know that territory in London, well, actually is french, cause it's an embassy. I put a flag on it and people are like "Oh, that's France. Gotta be the embassy".
Or I want people to know that this building in an official building, owned and ran by the french Republic.
Etc, etc, etc.
I get it, you want to see how evil and cynical everything is. That's very cool and all, but no, a flag in itself has nothing to do with propaganda. Or everything is and the whole thing loses all its meaning, doesn't it?
Can flags be used for propaganda purpose? Sure. Are flag in themselves a piece of propaganda? No, that makes 0 sense.
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Northern Ireland26799 Posts
On October 09 2020 21:35 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
You mean, clear how hard people work to make badly drawn comics in a reddit circle jerk perhaps communicated through the social media that is facebook? Clear how easily people are influenced when facing the unknown infomation, they must think this is accurate because they face a mass of badly drawn pictures in a "meme" format. When things like Hive-Mind Collectivism and Feudalism are part of the "balls" that are officially recognised, that suggests that it's a pile of crap, not an perceptive insight into some sort of idealogy or into the use of symbols.
Anarchist infighting and the narcissism of petty differences make the left’s factionalism seem positively cordial.
I assume the ever-increasing number of obscure anarchist sub-ideologies is itself a part of the joke. That said I have encountered self-described anarcho-fascists and anarcho-primitavists in the wild
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There's always infighting between idealogies, especially ones which are relatively young or not established in power and so have no overarching organisation to put forth a set of tenents to adhere to. Infighting is not infighting when there is no power to be apportioned and therefore no power to fight over and influence. That people want to draw comics is not an insight into anything in particular. doubt that anybody describes themselves as supporters of Hive-Mind Collectivism or Feudalism.
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Infighting is not infighting when there is no power to be apportioned and therefore no power to fight over and influence.
This is a definition you've invented. There's power to be apportioned as long as people assign it to each other, however trivial everyone else thinks their opinions and social approval structures might be.
Do those things represent serious political movements? Of course not. Is there some dude out there who has decided that anarcho-transhumanism represents him? Very likely.
I don't understand what you're arguing against here, really. Of course it's silly. But so are people. "Anybody" is a bold call in this big old world.
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How come the "anarchists" wanted to put the Governor on trial for violating the constitution? Doesn't make ANY sense.
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On October 09 2020 21:56 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 21:35 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
You mean, clear how hard people work to make badly drawn comics in a reddit circle jerk perhaps communicated through the social media that is facebook? Clear how easily people are influenced when facing the unknown infomation, they must think this is accurate because they face a mass of badly drawn pictures in a "meme" format. When things like Hive-Mind Collectivism and Feudalism are part of the "balls" that are officially recognised, that suggests that it's a pile of crap, not an perceptive insight into some sort of idealogy or into the use of symbols. Anarchist infighting and the narcissism of petty differences make the left’s factionalism seem positively cordial. I assume the ever-increasing number of obscure anarchist sub-ideologies is itself a part of the joke. That said I have encountered self-described anarcho-fascists and anarcho-primitavists in the wild
Okay, i gotta ask here. How does anarcho-fascist ideology work?
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Northern Ireland26799 Posts
On October 09 2020 22:36 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 21:56 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 21:35 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
You mean, clear how hard people work to make badly drawn comics in a reddit circle jerk perhaps communicated through the social media that is facebook? Clear how easily people are influenced when facing the unknown infomation, they must think this is accurate because they face a mass of badly drawn pictures in a "meme" format. When things like Hive-Mind Collectivism and Feudalism are part of the "balls" that are officially recognised, that suggests that it's a pile of crap, not an perceptive insight into some sort of idealogy or into the use of symbols. Anarchist infighting and the narcissism of petty differences make the left’s factionalism seem positively cordial. I assume the ever-increasing number of obscure anarchist sub-ideologies is itself a part of the joke. That said I have encountered self-described anarcho-fascists and anarcho-primitavists in the wild Okay, i gotta ask here. How does anarcho-fascist ideology work?
I’m really none the wiser despite asking self-confessed anarcho-fascists the same question.
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On October 09 2020 22:48 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 22:36 Simberto wrote:On October 09 2020 21:56 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 21:35 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
You mean, clear how hard people work to make badly drawn comics in a reddit circle jerk perhaps communicated through the social media that is facebook? Clear how easily people are influenced when facing the unknown infomation, they must think this is accurate because they face a mass of badly drawn pictures in a "meme" format. When things like Hive-Mind Collectivism and Feudalism are part of the "balls" that are officially recognised, that suggests that it's a pile of crap, not an perceptive insight into some sort of idealogy or into the use of symbols. Anarchist infighting and the narcissism of petty differences make the left’s factionalism seem positively cordial. I assume the ever-increasing number of obscure anarchist sub-ideologies is itself a part of the joke. That said I have encountered self-described anarcho-fascists and anarcho-primitavists in the wild Okay, i gotta ask here. How does anarcho-fascist ideology work? I’m really none the wiser despite asking self-confessed anarcho-fascists the same question.
They're just racist fascists, iirc :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism
National-anarchism is a radical right-wing[1][2][3][4] nationalist ideology which advocates racial separatism and white racial purity.[4][5][6] National-anarchists claim to syncretize neotribal ethnic nationalism with philosophical anarchism, mainly in their support for a stateless society whilst rejecting anarchist social philosophy.[4][5][6] The main ideological innovation of national-anarchism is its anti-state palingenetic ultranationalism.[1] National-anarchists advocate homogeneous communities in place of the nation state. National-anarchists claim that those of different ethnic or racial groups would be free to develop separately in their own tribal communes while striving to be politically meritocratic, economically non-capitalist, ecologically sustainable and socially and culturally traditional.[4][6]
Basically they use anarchist symbols and slogans to trojan horse their way into places they would otherwise get kicked out of.
On October 09 2020 21:06 Velr wrote:
Yep, same here.
And Anarcho-Transfeminism seems inexistent even in these comics. WTF is anarcho-transfeminism?
Honestly not sure. A couple of those flags are new to me.
I'm pretty sure it's the trans accepting version of anarcha-feminism, but uh, wtf kind of anarchist hates trans people in the first place? It's like the ultimate thing where neither side of anarchism should care.
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On October 09 2020 22:56 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 22:48 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 22:36 Simberto wrote:On October 09 2020 21:56 WombaT wrote:On October 09 2020 21:35 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
You mean, clear how hard people work to make badly drawn comics in a reddit circle jerk perhaps communicated through the social media that is facebook? Clear how easily people are influenced when facing the unknown infomation, they must think this is accurate because they face a mass of badly drawn pictures in a "meme" format. When things like Hive-Mind Collectivism and Feudalism are part of the "balls" that are officially recognised, that suggests that it's a pile of crap, not an perceptive insight into some sort of idealogy or into the use of symbols. Anarchist infighting and the narcissism of petty differences make the left’s factionalism seem positively cordial. I assume the ever-increasing number of obscure anarchist sub-ideologies is itself a part of the joke. That said I have encountered self-described anarcho-fascists and anarcho-primitavists in the wild Okay, i gotta ask here. How does anarcho-fascist ideology work? I’m really none the wiser despite asking self-confessed anarcho-fascists the same question. They're just racist fascists, iirc : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchismShow nested quote +National-anarchism is a radical right-wing[1][2][3][4] nationalist ideology which advocates racial separatism and white racial purity.[4][5][6] National-anarchists claim to syncretize neotribal ethnic nationalism with philosophical anarchism, mainly in their support for a stateless society whilst rejecting anarchist social philosophy.[4][5][6] The main ideological innovation of national-anarchism is its anti-state palingenetic ultranationalism.[1] National-anarchists advocate homogeneous communities in place of the nation state. National-anarchists claim that those of different ethnic or racial groups would be free to develop separately in their own tribal communes while striving to be politically meritocratic, economically non-capitalist, ecologically sustainable and socially and culturally traditional.[4][6]
Basically they use anarchist symbols and slogans to trojan horse their way into places they would otherwise get kicked out of. Show nested quote +On October 09 2020 21:06 Velr wrote:
Yep, same here.
And Anarcho-Transfeminism seems inexistent even in these comics. WTF is anarcho-transfeminism? Honestly not sure. A couple of those flags are new to me. I'm pretty sure it's the trans accepting version of anarcha-feminism, but uh, wtf kind of anarchist hates trans people in the first place? It's like the ultimate thing where neither side of anarchism should care.
TERFs are a thing, unfortunately.
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On October 09 2020 22:21 Belisarius wrote:Show nested quote + Infighting is not infighting when there is no power to be apportioned and therefore no power to fight over and influence. This is a definition you've invented. There's power to be apportioned as long as people assign it to each other, however trivial everyone else thinks their opinions and social approval structures might be. Do those things represent serious political movements? Of course not. Is there some dude out there who has decided that anarcho-transhumanism represents him? Very likely. I don't understand what you're arguing against here, really. Of course it's silly. But so are people. "Anybody" is a bold call in this big old world.
Inherent in infighting is that there has to be power and organisation to have something to fight over. As well as actual fighting. Is this apparent infighting something that has power to change the lives or people in an organisation? Is there any power or has any power or money that has changed hands as a result of this "infighting"? When the French Revolution undergoes infighting, the lives of millions and the power and machinery of a nationstate is at stake with concrete organisations udnergoing the infighting. When the formation of early Christianity undergoes infighting, the direction of an entire continent, and empires are at stake. When some minor political party undergoes infighting, the power of that party and the ability to influence the country and the direction of that party is is at stake.
When someone is arguing and identifying as Hive-Mind Collectivism /Feudalism/anarcho-fascists/anarcho-primitavists/anarcho-transhumanism there is no fighting, no organisation and no "in" in the infighting occuring. A slef proclaimed anarcho-fascists and anarcho-primitavists in the wild meet on the internet. Nothing happens. So where is the infighting if there is no organisation, no set of beliefs to fight over?
Lets say Wombat and I disagree over a topic on tl.net. Are we fighting? Are we infighting? According to you, we would be as even as trivial as it is, it is a matter of opinion. I say we are not. You and I disagree over the definition of infighting. So, are we too infighting? Clearly not infighting in both of these cases as a word to be used with the intention of clear communication. If it was a matter of power to be apportioned as long as people assign it to each other then all fighting would be infighting, rendering the meaning of infighting from fighting meaningless, and every disagreement would be infighting. Words have meaning, so please apply them with meaning.
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On October 09 2020 22:26 schaf wrote:
How come the "anarchists" wanted to put the Governor on trial for violating the constitution? Doesn't make ANY sense.
Frankly it's kind of hilarious. Those people are shit at terrorism but that's Monty Python level of funny.
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Small news roundup.
Cops were videoed beating Daily Caller reporters in Wisconsin last night (conservative site founded by Tucker Carlson... why are they attacking their allies?) Just another straw on the haystack pile that is evidence of police misconduct in the US.
Two stories from the same interview:
Trump called into Hannity's show last night and was audibly coughing and having issues catching his breath. While him not having gotten over COVID is not really any surprise, he is planning on starting campaigning publicly again tomorrow, which seems very dangerous for him and everyone at his events.
Audio clips:
https://www.mediaite.com/donald-trump/listen-trump-who-claims-hes-cured-from-covid-is-noticeably-hoarse-voice-breaks-off-twice-during-hannity-phone-interview/
During that same interview, he is now insisting that he gets to choose the moderator for any future debates (he wants fox primetime hosts).
This is because the originally scheduled moderator asked Scaramucci (a former Trump admin employee) for advice.
“Let’s get a fair anchor,” Trump said. “Somebody like the great Sean Hannity. We’ll get Rush [Limbaugh], we’ll get Mark [Levin], we’ll get Laura [Ingraham], we’ll get judge Jeanine [Pirro]. We’ve got a lot of them out there. We’ll get Jesse [Watters], or Pete [Hegseth]. We’ve got a lot of them. Tucker [Carlson] is doing good.”
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On October 09 2020 21:06 Velr wrote:
Yep, same here.
And Anarcho-Transfeminism seems inexistent even in these comics. WTF is anarcho-transfeminism?
I’m sure anarchists can erase the trans identity, just like regular people are accused of doing.
If these pol balls are some dumb iteration for weird groups at the margins, go check out their granddaddy Polandball. The originals from back several years are funny retelling of history through flags and balls. They’re just flags of countries and former countries.
Also, Nevuk, Tucker was the cofounder of DC news just like Gavin McInnes was cofounder of Vice (and Proud Boys). I wouldn’t call it Tucker’s site. They’re just a generic part of conservative digital media these days.
(Also, Scaramucci these days is invited on talk programs only to attack and disparage Trump, and the future moderator asked scaramucci specifically about responding to Trump. Scully went on to delete his account, then restore and delete the tweet, then his comoderator claimed scully was hacked.)
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/otuYKHR.jpg)
