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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2214

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7992 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 13:12:01
March 27 2020 13:11 GMT
#44261
On March 27 2020 21:59 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2020 21:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:
That's not really my point though. People vote for all kind of reasons, rational and irrational, well or ill-informed. They are lied to, or told the truth on various degree. That has little to do with populism.

Populism is when Maduro paints his opponents as enemy of the people guided by foreign powers. Or when Trump supporters oppose the real american, white, working class midwest folks against the "globalists", costal "elites" and minorities, all not-so-real people.

And populism is, sorry, when your candidate represents the american people, but your opponents represent "the establishment". And when the numbers are not in your favour, you call the game rigged and you declare the other side illegitimate.


The description you give of populism can just as easily be applied to the Russia bot/interference/Berniebro narratives and the Democratic party.

To absolutely none of those, you really don't understand what I'm saying, but as I said populism exist on all points of the political spectrum. Including the centre left.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23687 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 13:44:32
March 27 2020 13:20 GMT
#44262
On March 27 2020 22:11 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2020 21:59 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 27 2020 21:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:
That's not really my point though. People vote for all kind of reasons, rational and irrational, well or ill-informed. They are lied to, or told the truth on various degree. That has little to do with populism.

Populism is when Maduro paints his opponents as enemy of the people guided by foreign powers. Or when Trump supporters oppose the real american, white, working class midwest folks against the "globalists", costal "elites" and minorities, all not-so-real people.

And populism is, sorry, when your candidate represents the american people, but your opponents represent "the establishment". And when the numbers are not in your favour, you call the game rigged and you declare the other side illegitimate.


The description you give of populism can just as easily be applied to the Russia bot/interference/Berniebro narratives and the Democratic party.

To absolutely none of those, you really don't understand what I'm saying, but as I said populism exist on all points of the political spectrum. Including the centre left.


I do and it does. I remember vividly 2016 and being told constantly I was endangering the country and world by allowing myself to be a useful idiot for a foreign country. Wild conspiracies about how criticism was driven by Russian propaganda and the whole lot. That definitely was a huge part of the Clinton campaign. We're seeing the same thing with Biden. Also "#MoscowMitch" is basically part and parcel what you describe.

I just don't see the analytical value in your articulation of what you identify as populism. Let's say populism is what you say it is. What's your point? That politics has an element of popular support, and you find it unsettling?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 13:37:01
March 27 2020 13:34 GMT
#44263
So, Trump went on Hannity last night and said that he thought states were exaggerating their need for ventilators (he specifically said NY was). Then it comes out that he has cancelled the plans to have GM repurpose a plant to make new ones rapidly, as the 1$ Billion cost tag was too much for him.

(NYTimes, so it may be paywalled for some - text in spoiler).
+ Show Spoiler +
WASHINGTON — The White House had been preparing to reveal on Wednesday a joint venture between General Motors and Ventec Life Systems that would allow for the production of as many as 80,000 desperately needed ventilators to respond to an escalating pandemic when word suddenly came down that the announcement was off.

The decision to cancel the announcement, government officials say, came after the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it needed more time to assess whether the estimated cost was prohibitive. That price tag was more than $1 billion, with several hundred million dollars to be paid upfront to General Motors to retool a car parts plant in Kokomo, Ind., where the ventilators would be made with Ventec’s technology.

Government officials said that the deal might still happen but that they are examining at least a dozen other proposals. And they contend that an initial promise that the joint venture could turn out 20,000 ventilators in short order had shrunk to 7,500, with even that number in doubt. Longtime emergency managers at FEMA are working with military officials to sort through the competing offers and federal procurement rules while under pressure to give President Trump something to announce.

But in an interview Thursday night with Sean Hannity, the president played down the need for ventilators.

“I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators,” he said, a reference to New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo has appealed for federal help in obtaining them. “You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”

A General Motors spokesman said that “Project V,” as the ventilator program is known, was moving very fast, and a company official said “there’s no issue with retooling.”

A Ventec representative agreed.

“Ventec and G.M. have been working at breakneck speed to leverage our collective expertise in ventilation and manufacturing to meet the needs of the country as quickly as possible and arm medical professionals with the number of ventilators needed to save lives,” said Chris O. Brooks, Ventec’s chief strategy officer.

The only thing missing was clarity from the government about how many ventilators they needed — and who would be paid to build them.

The shortage of ventilators has emerged as one of the major criticisms of the Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus. The need to quickly equip hospitals across the country with tens of thousands more of the devices to treat those most seriously ill with the virus was not anticipated despite the Trump administration’s own projection in a simulation last year that millions of people could be hospitalized. And even now, the effort to produce them has been confused and disorganized.
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At the center of the discussion about how to ramp up the production of ventilators is Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and a senior White House aide, who has told people that he was called in two weeks ago by Vice President Mike Pence to produce more coronavirus test kits and who has now turned his attention to ventilators.

He has been directing officials at FEMA in the effort. Two officials said the suggestion to wait on the General Motors offer came from Col. Patrick Work, who is working at FEMA. Some government officials expressed concern about the possibility of ordering too many ventilators, leaving them with an expensive surplus.
As the agency has sorted through offers, trying to weigh production ability and costs, hospitals in New York and elsewhere are reporting a desperate need for more ventilators, which are critical in treating respiratory problems in a fast-rising tide of severe coronavirus cases.

A spokeswoman for FEMA said Colonel Work presented information on each contract in such meetings but did not make any recommendations. A White House spokesman declined to comment.

The involvement of General Motors was first floated this month as the carmaker’s factory floor in Kokomo was grinding to a halt and workers were being sent home — partly because the market was collapsing but also because workers would otherwise risk exposure to the coronavirus.

Last week, General Motors, Ventec Life Systems and a coalition of business executives called StopTheSpread.org issued a statement saying that Ventec would “leverage G.M.’s logistics, purchasing and manufacturing expertise to build more of their critically important ventilators,” including some portable units.

By Sunday, Mr. Trump appeared to suggest on Twitter that a deal had been completed to mass-produce the ventilators, even though it was unclear who would pay to equip the General Motors plant or how long that process would take.

“Ford, General Motors and Tesla are being given the go ahead to make ventilators and other metal products, FAST! @fema,” he wrote. “Go for it auto execs, lets see how good you are?”

Not for the first time has Mr. Trump jumped the gun.

Tesla officials had in fact met with engineers from the medical device company Medtronic in a separate negotiation, but no partnership has yet been announced. And while the chief executive of General Motors, Mary T. Barra, was enthused about the ventilator idea, Mr. Trump’s own aides had not embraced the G.M.-Ventec partnership — in part because they had not seen the specifics of the proposal.

Administration officials said Thursday that they were struggling to understand just how many ventilators the new venture could make.

The initial projection, one senior administration official said, was that after three weeks of preparation it could produce an initial run of 20,000 ventilators, or about two-thirds of what Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York recently said his state alone needed to cover the influx of coronavirus patients expected in two weeks, if not sooner.

That number then shrank to 7,500 ventilators in the initial run, or maybe 5,000, an apparent recognition that auto transmissions and ventilators had very little in common. Those numbers are in flux and so are the Trump administration’s because the White House cannot decide how many ventilators it wants.

Targets have changed by the hour, officials said, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Food and Drug Administration, which approves the use of medical devices, and the White House try to figure out how many ventilators to request and how much they should cost.

Those issues appeared to come to a head on Wednesday afternoon, when FEMA told the White House that it was premature to make a decision.

The $1.5 billion price tag comes to around $18,000 a ventilator. And the overall cost, by comparison, is roughly equal to buying 18 F-35s, the Pentagon’s most advanced fighter jet.

So on Wednesday, despite the president’s tweet three days earlier, FEMA was still weighing competing offers in order to make a recommendation to Mr. Kushner. And it seemed clear to several officials that the agency would have to select multiple manufacturers, in part to avoid the risk that one production line runs into technical troubles, or that its workers contract the very virus the ventilators are being built to defeat.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/us/politics/coronavirus-ventilators-trump.html

(very biased podcast, linked just for the clip )
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12407 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 14:47:54
March 27 2020 14:47 GMT
#44264
On March 27 2020 16:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2020 04:30 Nebuchad wrote:
I think opposition to populism as a leftist is ideologically conflicting, and that opposition being perceived as somewhat standard and not something that needs to be explained is definitely something that we have neoliberalism to thank for.

Populism simply means that one pretends to be, or to exclusively represent the "real" people (against the cosmopolitan jews, the kulaks, the out of touch elites, the foreigners, the oligarchy, the establishment and so on). You can find it right, left and centre.

My biggest problem with Bernie was actually the populist undertone of some of his campaign. I had a discussion recently with a friend who voted for him she argued that the people supported him. When I mentioned that actually, the numbers suggested that the people seemed to rather support Biden, her answer was to quote the Manufacture of Consent by Noam Chomsky. As if you could only support this establishment candidate if you were manipulated by this establishment media, and that people supporting Biden were either not "real" people or didn't have a "real" opinion.


Populism creates an opposition between the people and the elite and places itself on the side of the people. The idea of class consciousness is, in itself, a populist idea under this main definition, probably under yours as well. The project of eroding social hierarchies which, in my mind, is at the core of leftwing ideology, is deeply populist; we are fighting against the system in order to earn more power over our lives as ordinary people.

Your friend seems nice, and is correct that Manufacturing Consent was relevant here. But given that you already disagree that the media has a liberal bias in the first place, it was not the first conversation to have
No will to live, no wish to die
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
March 27 2020 16:08 GMT
#44265
No one gonna talk about Boris Johnson being tested positive with the 'Rona and having mild symptoms? How many more of the Parliament is infected do you think? What about this admin and the daily briefings?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
March 27 2020 16:17 GMT
#44266
Folks are talking about that in the ‘rona thread
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
March 27 2020 16:18 GMT
#44267
On March 28 2020 01:17 farvacola wrote:
Folks are talking about that in the ‘rona thread

I forget that's a thing. Thank you sir.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9284 Posts
March 27 2020 16:19 GMT
#44268
Well the UK isn't the 51st state yet so it's hard to talk about it in this thread.

Johnson is only 55 so the risk of something serious is also relatively low. If Trump, Biden or Sanders got sick, that would be a big deal.
You're now breathing manually
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9037 Posts
March 27 2020 17:10 GMT
#44269
On March 28 2020 01:19 Sent. wrote:
Well the UK isn't the 51st state yet so it's hard to talk about it in this thread.

Johnson is only 55 so the risk of something serious is also relatively low. If Trump, Biden or Sanders got sick, that would be a big deal.

That's what I was leading into. What does that bode for the "leaders" of the US? Do you think there are some that are infected that will begin to show symptoms soon or that they'll go into isolation this weekend after the bill for a few weeks to "hide" they're sick? I think if a lot of politicians started to get sick from this, it'll probably quickly escalate tensions as to the government not being prepared and things getting out of hand rather fast.

Just looking to see what thoughts are on this line in particular.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 27 2020 17:13 GMT
#44270
Rand Paul has it and went about his business in the capitol building while waiting on test results (using the gym, cafeteria, etc.). For six days. He's also a doctor. So yeah, a bunch of senators almost certainly have it.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9284 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 18:01:54
March 27 2020 17:59 GMT
#44271
On March 28 2020 02:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2020 01:19 Sent. wrote:
Well the UK isn't the 51st state yet so it's hard to talk about it in this thread.

Johnson is only 55 so the risk of something serious is also relatively low. If Trump, Biden or Sanders got sick, that would be a big deal.

That's what I was leading into. What does that bode for the "leaders" of the US? Do you think there are some that are infected that will begin to show symptoms soon or that they'll go into isolation this weekend after the bill for a few weeks to "hide" they're sick? I think if a lot of politicians started to get sick from this, it'll probably quickly escalate tensions as to the government not being prepared and things getting out of hand rather fast.

Just looking to see what thoughts are on this line in particular.


You could spin getting infected into something positive, like: "Hey guys it's true, I'm sick. I will face this danger bravely just like our great nation! Thank you for support!". Only a large wave of infections in the government would make it look bad, because what could be more worrying in these times than having a government that can't even keep itself safe?
You're now breathing manually
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23687 Posts
March 27 2020 18:13 GMT
#44272
On March 28 2020 02:59 Sent. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2020 02:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On March 28 2020 01:19 Sent. wrote:
Well the UK isn't the 51st state yet so it's hard to talk about it in this thread.

Johnson is only 55 so the risk of something serious is also relatively low. If Trump, Biden or Sanders got sick, that would be a big deal.

That's what I was leading into. What does that bode for the "leaders" of the US? Do you think there are some that are infected that will begin to show symptoms soon or that they'll go into isolation this weekend after the bill for a few weeks to "hide" they're sick? I think if a lot of politicians started to get sick from this, it'll probably quickly escalate tensions as to the government not being prepared and things getting out of hand rather fast.

Just looking to see what thoughts are on this line in particular.


You could spin getting infected into something positive, like: "Hey guys it's true, I'm sick. I will face this danger bravely just like our great nation! Thank you for support!". Only a large wave of infections in the government would make it look bad, because what could be more worrying in these times than having a government that can't even keep itself safe?


To that point it feels like they are walking a tightrope. Or they really have no plan for how our government can function without congress meeting in DC. Thomas Massie sort of put that at the forefront with his dick move calling a quorum on the house vote for the relief package.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
March 27 2020 18:33 GMT
#44273
On March 28 2020 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2020 02:59 Sent. wrote:
On March 28 2020 02:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On March 28 2020 01:19 Sent. wrote:
Well the UK isn't the 51st state yet so it's hard to talk about it in this thread.

Johnson is only 55 so the risk of something serious is also relatively low. If Trump, Biden or Sanders got sick, that would be a big deal.

That's what I was leading into. What does that bode for the "leaders" of the US? Do you think there are some that are infected that will begin to show symptoms soon or that they'll go into isolation this weekend after the bill for a few weeks to "hide" they're sick? I think if a lot of politicians started to get sick from this, it'll probably quickly escalate tensions as to the government not being prepared and things getting out of hand rather fast.

Just looking to see what thoughts are on this line in particular.


You could spin getting infected into something positive, like: "Hey guys it's true, I'm sick. I will face this danger bravely just like our great nation! Thank you for support!". Only a large wave of infections in the government would make it look bad, because what could be more worrying in these times than having a government that can't even keep itself safe?


To that point it feels like they are walking a tightrope. Or they really have no plan for how our government can function without congress meeting in DC. Thomas Massie sort of put that at the forefront with his dick move calling a quorum on the house vote for the relief package.


Even state governments can't function currently. My state assembly is currently in recess until the end of April and they have to assemble for an emergency session to even vote on a possibility of a remote vote. People are incapable of bending rules.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
March 27 2020 18:42 GMT
#44274
They're suspending all EPA enforcement in the name of fighting pandemic:

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/489753-epa-suspends-enforcement-of-environmental-laws-amid-coronavirus

Also blocking all immigration on the Mexican border... Funny how this is stuff that Trump wanted to do but couldn't normally.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 27 2020 18:44 GMT
#44275
It's 9/11 all over again, but 10x worse.
Life?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22125 Posts
March 27 2020 19:06 GMT
#44276
On March 28 2020 03:33 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2020 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 28 2020 02:59 Sent. wrote:
On March 28 2020 02:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On March 28 2020 01:19 Sent. wrote:
Well the UK isn't the 51st state yet so it's hard to talk about it in this thread.

Johnson is only 55 so the risk of something serious is also relatively low. If Trump, Biden or Sanders got sick, that would be a big deal.

That's what I was leading into. What does that bode for the "leaders" of the US? Do you think there are some that are infected that will begin to show symptoms soon or that they'll go into isolation this weekend after the bill for a few weeks to "hide" they're sick? I think if a lot of politicians started to get sick from this, it'll probably quickly escalate tensions as to the government not being prepared and things getting out of hand rather fast.

Just looking to see what thoughts are on this line in particular.


You could spin getting infected into something positive, like: "Hey guys it's true, I'm sick. I will face this danger bravely just like our great nation! Thank you for support!". Only a large wave of infections in the government would make it look bad, because what could be more worrying in these times than having a government that can't even keep itself safe?


To that point it feels like they are walking a tightrope. Or they really have no plan for how our government can function without congress meeting in DC. Thomas Massie sort of put that at the forefront with his dick move calling a quorum on the house vote for the relief package.


Even state governments can't function currently. My state assembly is currently in recess until the end of April and they have to assemble for an emergency session to even vote on a possibility of a remote vote. People are incapable of bending rules.
Its not so much incapable of bending the rules but that without a proper legal foundation every decision they make can be easily challenged.
Say you vote for a lockdown via remote vote even tho technically you can't have a remote vote. Now you can't punish anyone who breaks that lockdown because legally the order doesn't exist and if you do try to enforce it and it gets taken to court your going to lose because again, legally the order isn't valid.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5711 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 19:11:09
March 27 2020 19:10 GMT
#44277
On March 28 2020 01:08 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
No one gonna talk about Boris Johnson being tested positive with the 'Rona and having mild symptoms? How many more of the Parliament is infected do you think? What about this admin and the daily briefings?


This is also for US politics, not UK politics. I'd wager most of us don't even know how a parliament works.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 19:38:58
March 27 2020 19:34 GMT
#44278
On March 28 2020 04:06 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2020 03:33 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On March 28 2020 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 28 2020 02:59 Sent. wrote:
On March 28 2020 02:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On March 28 2020 01:19 Sent. wrote:
Well the UK isn't the 51st state yet so it's hard to talk about it in this thread.

Johnson is only 55 so the risk of something serious is also relatively low. If Trump, Biden or Sanders got sick, that would be a big deal.

That's what I was leading into. What does that bode for the "leaders" of the US? Do you think there are some that are infected that will begin to show symptoms soon or that they'll go into isolation this weekend after the bill for a few weeks to "hide" they're sick? I think if a lot of politicians started to get sick from this, it'll probably quickly escalate tensions as to the government not being prepared and things getting out of hand rather fast.

Just looking to see what thoughts are on this line in particular.


You could spin getting infected into something positive, like: "Hey guys it's true, I'm sick. I will face this danger bravely just like our great nation! Thank you for support!". Only a large wave of infections in the government would make it look bad, because what could be more worrying in these times than having a government that can't even keep itself safe?


To that point it feels like they are walking a tightrope. Or they really have no plan for how our government can function without congress meeting in DC. Thomas Massie sort of put that at the forefront with his dick move calling a quorum on the house vote for the relief package.


Even state governments can't function currently. My state assembly is currently in recess until the end of April and they have to assemble for an emergency session to even vote on a possibility of a remote vote. People are incapable of bending rules.
Its not so much incapable of bending the rules but that without a proper legal foundation every decision they make can be easily challenged.
Say you vote for a lockdown via remote vote even tho technically you can't have a remote vote. Now you can't punish anyone who breaks that lockdown because legally the order doesn't exist and if you do try to enforce it and it gets taken to court your going to lose because again, legally the order isn't valid.


Where you lose me is the part where they literally make the rules. We have to follow some voodoo ritual to make a new rule so that we can make rules a different way because we're powerless rule makers.

I'd be curious if a court would actually uphold emergency remote voting to be unconstitutional. Seems pretty moronic.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23687 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-27 19:56:38
March 27 2020 19:41 GMT
#44279
On March 28 2020 04:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2020 04:06 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 28 2020 03:33 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On March 28 2020 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 28 2020 02:59 Sent. wrote:
On March 28 2020 02:10 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On March 28 2020 01:19 Sent. wrote:
Well the UK isn't the 51st state yet so it's hard to talk about it in this thread.

Johnson is only 55 so the risk of something serious is also relatively low. If Trump, Biden or Sanders got sick, that would be a big deal.

That's what I was leading into. What does that bode for the "leaders" of the US? Do you think there are some that are infected that will begin to show symptoms soon or that they'll go into isolation this weekend after the bill for a few weeks to "hide" they're sick? I think if a lot of politicians started to get sick from this, it'll probably quickly escalate tensions as to the government not being prepared and things getting out of hand rather fast.

Just looking to see what thoughts are on this line in particular.


You could spin getting infected into something positive, like: "Hey guys it's true, I'm sick. I will face this danger bravely just like our great nation! Thank you for support!". Only a large wave of infections in the government would make it look bad, because what could be more worrying in these times than having a government that can't even keep itself safe?


To that point it feels like they are walking a tightrope. Or they really have no plan for how our government can function without congress meeting in DC. Thomas Massie sort of put that at the forefront with his dick move calling a quorum on the house vote for the relief package.


Even state governments can't function currently. My state assembly is currently in recess until the end of April and they have to assemble for an emergency session to even vote on a possibility of a remote vote. People are incapable of bending rules.
Its not so much incapable of bending the rules but that without a proper legal foundation every decision they make can be easily challenged.
Say you vote for a lockdown via remote vote even tho technically you can't have a remote vote. Now you can't punish anyone who breaks that lockdown because legally the order doesn't exist and if you do try to enforce it and it gets taken to court your going to lose because again, legally the order isn't valid.


Where you lose me is the part where they literally make the rules. We have to follow some voodoo ritual to make a new rule so that we can make rules a different way because we're powerless rule makers.


Juxtapose that with how easily EPA regulations are waived. It is one reason why this obsession with process and rules fails to meet the moment and threat Trump presents in the "9/11 but worse" context.
I'd be curious if a court would actually uphold emergency remote voting to be unconstitutional. Seems pretty moronic.

this is where discretion comes in and part of why it is built into the system. It is also a major reason why the appeals to the rules are almost always a scapegoat for intentional obstruction/efforts. "Rules say we can't/Rules say we gotta" is pretty much always code for "I'm doing this because I choose too and deferring accountability to a faceless system"

EDIT:: Can see how this plays out with the EPA thing. Trump waives the rules, Dems challenge it in court, Court says Trump waived the rules within the rules so the companies aren't liable for the immense environmental damage they do while the regs are waived and Dems are helpless to do anything about it and point to the rules (and voters) as an excuse for their impotence. Seen this movie a 1000 times
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
March 27 2020 19:57 GMT
#44280
Really hope Kate Brown puts out something basically saying "Listen up you fucks, assume the EPA is still a thing in Oregon or else you'll get hammered with fines"

This whole idea of "Quick! Abolish the EPA!" is downright scummy and fucked up. Lots of people will die directly because of that. God this is such a shit show. The good news is, my wife is significantly more open about moving to Canada after all this.
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