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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 206

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 16 2018 22:03 GMT
#4101
On May 17 2018 06:50 Tachion wrote:
There are multiple polls out there of 70+% of Republicans supporting net neutrality. It stinks to high heaven that the GOP gets away with such one sided voting on the issue.

Yeah, but don’t change their vote based on internet access regulations. So the republicans can oppose it safely so long as they run on issues like crackdowns on legal and illegal immigration.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15686 Posts
May 16 2018 22:04 GMT
#4102
On May 17 2018 07:02 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2018 06:50 Tachion wrote:
There are multiple polls out there of 70+% of Republicans supporting net neutrality. It stinks to high heaven that the GOP gets away with such one sided voting on the issue.


On one hand, you have the majority of people who vote for you who don't like something.

On the other hand, you have a large donor to you saying they want it the other way.

Therefore, don't bite the hand that feeds, appease the donor.

If they could get the money out of politics, this wouldn't be a problem.


Friendly reminder that a vote for Mohdoo 2020 is a vote for abolishing all forms of political donations.
A3th3r
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
United States319 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-06-24 15:01:12
May 16 2018 23:19 GMT
#4103
I think that this treatise explains much of what is currently going on in the middle-east to this day. This is an incredibly detailed look at aevery nook & cranny of the mesopotamia region. I guess I'm not sure if there is a better one out there or not but probably not. Payday today, in other news. I actually used this very source myself to write a research paper about the current state of the middle east about 2 years ago, but most of it is still basically on the mark.
https://gulfanalysis.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/dammit-it-is-not-unravelling-an-historians-rebuke-to-misrepresentations-of-sykes-picot/
The demise of the ottoman empire was a humanitarian catastrophe of epic proportions at the end of WWI. The solution to that crisis was a meeting that resulted in the creation of "zones of influence" in that part of the world. The eventual goal, which was fully realized, was that the peoples of that region would govern themselves & that the US would not have to directly rule that part of the world, as they do not have interest in directly ruling "client states" themselves & would rather do business with them instead. They came to that conclusion because of the dissolution of the British Empire, which ruled India & Hong Kong & other territories but eventually gave up on that idea as it was simply too expense & unprofitable to sustain long-term. France also had to withdraw from Algeria due to the high cost of operating two governments at the same time. Too much hassle! These countries are "on their own" but are freely allowed to trade & are encouraged to get out there & make some money.

In more recent news, there continues to be a worrisome amount of conflict between other non-middle-eastern states as to how to deal with the fallout of the failed Iran deal. I worry that Iran will "get away with" manufacturing their own nuclear-industrial complex which is independent of the US & the EU. It seems highly possible that this might happen. As a guy who just hired a contract employee to complete a simple assignment for a small fee, definitely there is a feeling of worry about issues of independence & self-actualization.
https://www.weeklystandard.com/democrats-worry-about-u-s-europe-divide-over-iran-deal
The oil industry continues to operate profitably in the north american "great plains" region as well as middle eastern countries too.
stale trite schlub
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35143 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-17 01:20:26
May 17 2018 01:18 GMT
#4104
Wouldn't be a problem if we were still in the deal.

It's like we gathered money to buy a fancy board game to play with each other, but old Sam decided "fuck it, I'm gonna go to the strip club and get wasted."

If you don't expect some of your friends to be tired with your shift and say "Dude, fuck this guy." to each other, I dunno what to tell you.
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
May 17 2018 04:32 GMT
#4105
On May 17 2018 07:04 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2018 07:02 Lmui wrote:
On May 17 2018 06:50 Tachion wrote:
There are multiple polls out there of 70+% of Republicans supporting net neutrality. It stinks to high heaven that the GOP gets away with such one sided voting on the issue.


On one hand, you have the majority of people who vote for you who don't like something.

On the other hand, you have a large donor to you saying they want it the other way.

Therefore, don't bite the hand that feeds, appease the donor.

If they could get the money out of politics, this wouldn't be a problem.


Friendly reminder that a vote for Mohdoo 2020 is a vote for abolishing all forms of political donations.


You have my vote! Corporations controlling politics honestly IMO is the worst thing ever. I can't think of a single problem that couldn't be solved by reforming this.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 17 2018 04:35 GMT
#4106
DOJ Inspector General report of the FBI and DOJ's handling of the Clinton email is supposed to come out soon. This will be the next bit of ammo used by Republicans in their campaign against Mueller. Interestingly the story that McCabe leaked (that Republicans now castigate him for) basically stated that McCabe had fended off efforts by the DOJ to influence the Clinton investigation. This will become a major front in the Republicans' war against the law enforcement agencies.

Kyadytim
Profile Joined March 2009
United States886 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-17 05:35:13
May 17 2018 05:33 GMT
#4107
Quotes now in spoilers because the size of the article I was quoting killed my sense of how large these things actually were.

+ Show Spoiler +
New forms of life necessarily give rise to new and distinct forms of consciousness. If you doubt this, you clearly haven’t been reading the “personal and household services” ads on Monster.com. At the time of this writing, the section for my town of Brookline, Massachusetts, featured one placed by a “busy professional couple” seeking a “Part Time Nanny.” The nanny (or manny—the ad scrupulously avoids committing to gender) is to be “bright, loving, and energetic”; “friendly, intelligent, and professional”; and “a very good communicator, both written and verbal.” She (on balance of probability) will “assist with the care and development” of two children and will be “responsible for all aspects of the children’s needs,” including bathing, dressing, feeding, and taking the young things to and from school and activities. That’s why a “college degree in early childhood education” is “a plus.”

In short, Nanny is to have every attribute one would want in a terrific, professional, college-educated parent. Except, of course, the part about being an actual professional, college-educated parent. There is no chance that Nanny will trade places with our busy 5G couple. She “must know the proper etiquette in a professionally run household” and be prepared to “accommodate changing circumstances.” She is required to have “5+ years experience as a Nanny,” which makes it unlikely that she’ll have had time to get the law degree that would put her on the other side of the bargain. All of Nanny’s skills, education, experience, and professionalism will land her a job that is “Part Time.”

The ad is written in flawless, 21st-century business-speak, but what it is really seeking is a governess—that exquisitely contradictory figure in Victorian literature who is both indistinguishable in all outward respects from the upper class and yet emphatically not a member of it. Nanny’s best bet for moving up in the world is probably to follow the example of Jane Eyre and run off with the lord (or lady) of the manor.
+ Show Spoiler +
There is a page in the book of American political thought—Grandfather knew it by heart—that says we must choose between government and freedom. But if you read it twice, you’ll see that what it really offers is a choice between government you can see and government you can’t. Aristocrats always prefer the invisible kind of government. It leaves them free to exercise their privileges. We in the 9.9 percent have mastered the art of getting the government to work for us even while complaining loudly that it’s working for those other people.

Consider, for starters, the greatly exaggerated reports of our tax burdens. On guest panels this past holiday season, apologists for the latest round of upwardly aimed tax cuts offered versions of Mitt Romney’s claim that the 47 percent of Americans who pay no federal income tax in a typical year have “no skin in the game.” Baloney. Sure, the federal individual-income tax, which raised $1.6 trillion last year, remains progressive. But the $1.2 trillion raised by the payroll tax hits all workers—but not investors, such as Romney—and it hits those making lower incomes at a higher rate, thanks to a cap on the amount of income subject to the tax. Then there’s the $2.3 trillion raised by state and local governments, much of it collected through regressive sales and property taxes. The poorest quintile of Americans pays more than twice the rate of state taxes as the top 1 percent does, and about half again what the top 10 percent pays.

Our false protests about paying all the taxes, however, sound like songs of innocence compared with our mastery of the art of having the taxes returned to us. The income-tax system that so offended my grandfather has had the unintended effect of creating a highly discreet category of government expenditures. They’re called “tax breaks,” but it’s better to think of them as handouts that spare the government the inconvenience of collecting the money in the first place. In theory, tax expenditures can be used to support any number of worthy social purposes, and a few of them, such as the earned income-tax credit, do actually go to those with a lower income. But more commonly, because their value is usually a function of the amount of money individuals have in the first place, and those individuals’ marginal tax rates, the benefits flow uphill.

Let us count our blessings: Every year, the federal government doles out tax expenditures through deductions for retirement savings (worth $137 billion in 2013); employer-sponsored health plans ($250 billion); mortgage-interest payments ($70 billion); and, sweetest of all, income from watching the value of your home, stock portfolio, and private-equity partnerships grow ($161 billion). In total, federal tax expenditures exceeded $900 billion in 2013. That’s more than the cost of Medicare, more than the cost of Medicaid, more than the cost of all other federal safety-net programs put together. And—such is the beauty of the system—51 percent of those handouts went to the top quintile of earners, and 39 percent to the top decile.

The best thing about this program of reverse taxation, as far as the 9.9 percent are concerned, is that the bottom 90 percent haven’t got a clue. The working classes get riled up when they see someone at the grocery store flipping out their food stamps to buy a T-bone. They have no idea that a nice family on the other side of town is walking away with $100,000 for flipping their house.

But wait, there’s more! Let’s not forget about the kids. If the secrets of a nation’s soul may be read from its tax code, then our nation must be in love with the children of rich people. The 2017 tax law raises the amount of money that married couples can pass along to their heirs tax-free from a very generous $11 million to a magnificent $22 million. Correction: It’s not merely tax-free; it’s tax-subsidized. The unrealized tax liability on the appreciation of the house you bought 40 years ago, or on the stock portfolio that has been gathering moths—all of that disappears when you pass the gains along to the kids. Those foregone taxes cost the United States Treasury $43 billion in 2013 alone—about three times the amount spent on the Children’s Health Insurance Program.
+ Show Spoiler +
None of which changed the reality that the Teapot Dome scandal, with its bribes and kickbacks and sweetheart deals for rich oilmen, made plain. Under the immense pressure of the Gatsby Curve, American democracy was on the ropes. The people in charge were the people with the money. Ultimately, what the moneymen of the 1920s wanted is what moneymen always want. And their servants delivered. The Calvin Coolidge administration passed a huge tax cut in 1926, making sure that everyone could go home with his winnings. The rich seemed to think they had nothing else to worry about—until October 1929.

Where were the 90 percent during these acts of plunder? An appreciable number of them could be found at Ku Klux Klan rallies. And as far as the most vocal (though not necessarily the largest) part of the 90 percent was concerned, America’s biggest problems were all due to the mooching hordes of immigrants. You know, the immigrants whose grandchildren have come to believe that America’s biggest problems now are all due to the mooching hordes of immigrants.

The toxic wave of wealth concentration that arose in the Gilded Age and crested in the 1920s finally crashed on the shoals of depression and war. Today we like to think that the social-welfare programs that were planted by the New Deal and that blossomed in the postwar era were the principal drivers of a new equality. But the truth is that those efforts belong more to the category of effects than causes. Death and destruction were the real agents of change. The financial collapse knocked the wealthy back several steps, and war empowered labor—above all working women.

That gilded, roaring surge of destruction was by no means the first such destabilizing wave of inequality to sweep through American history. In the first half of the 19th century, the largest single industry in the United States, measured in terms of both market capital and employment, was the enslavement (and the breeding for enslavement) of human beings. Over the course of the period, the industry became concentrated to the point where fewer than 4,000 families (roughly 0.1 percent of the households in the nation) owned about a quarter of this “human capital,” and another 390,000 (call it the 9.9 percent, give or take a few points) owned all of the rest.

The slaveholding elite were vastly more educated, healthier, and had much better table manners than the overwhelming majority of their fellow white people, never mind the people they enslaved. They dominated not only the government of the nation, but also its media, culture, and religion. Their votaries in the pulpits and the news networks were so successful in demonstrating the sanctity and beneficence of the slave system that millions of impoverished white people with no enslaved people to call their own conceived of it as an honor to lay down their life in the system’s defense.

That wave ended with 620,000 military deaths, and a lot of property damage. It did level the playing field in the American South for a time—though the process began to reverse itself all too swiftly.
www.theatlantic.com
This is a really, really good article. I pulled out some quotes to try to give it some form, but it's a really large article.

The general thrust of it is a number related points:
  • Inequality and economic mobility are linked, and are gradually hardening.
  • Inequality isn't maintained by the very top of the socioeconomic pyramid such as royalty but by the people just below them, the aristocrats.
  • The US has developed a new aristocracy. It looks different, but take off the modern covering, and it's basically the same as aristocracies that have come before (See quote 1)
  • The new aristocracy has replaced the failed concepts of things such as divine right of kings and natural superiority of slaveowners over slaves with the idea of a meritocracy where everyone has equal opportunity, while at the same time ensuring that opportunity is not equal so that they can pass on their wealth and status to their children.
  • The new aristocracy defends itself by denying it exists as much as through control of the government
  • High inequality and low economic mobility generally result in massive upheaval.


I totally had to skip some stuff because I can't reasonably quote enough sections of the article. One of the points that I glossed over was the invisible ways in which the aristocracy maintains their wealth. One is property values - homes in the most expensive areas generates an inflation adjusted ROI of a whopping 50%.

Another point was the way that being in the aristocracy is literally healthier.

A third thing which wound its way through the whole article is that the royalty, aristocracy, and commoners are all at odds with each other. The royalty (the super rich) will set the commoners against the aristocrats up as the real cause of increasing inequality and such. See also Republican attacks on Democrats as "coastal elite." It's true. The aristocrats are largely in the Democrat party, while the royalty is largely attached to the Republican party. This is actually a cause for hope, because some of the best outcomes when the Gatsby Curve has reached the point the US is at now come when the aristocrats side with the commoners against the royalty.

There was also a lot about resentment, the weaponization of it, how unions are demonized but associations like the ABA are respected, how the meritocracy illusion justifies completely out of proportion compensation.

I'll close this post with one more shorter quote.

The historian Richard Hofstadter drew attention to Anti-intellectualism in American Life in 1963; Susan Jacoby warned in 2008 about The Age of American Unreason; and Tom Nichols announced The Death of Expertise in 2017. In Trump, the age of unreason has at last found its hero. The “self-made man” is always the idol of those who aren’t quite making it. He is the sacred embodiment of the American dream, the guy who answers to nobody, the poor man’s idea of a rich man.
Emphasis is very much mine. The other side of the illusion of a meritocracy is that commoners come to believe that the royalty and aristocracy are entitled to what they have, without seeing all of the inner workings, struggle, and positional jockeying that comes with being a member of those classes. Trump, who really doesn't do any sort of work at all and doesn't have to live up to responsibilities, is exactly what an average member of the lower middle class and lower class would describe if asked to describe the life of a very rich person without any time to think about it.

But really, read the whole thing yourself. It's written by a man who is a member of that aristocracy and who knows all of the small secured advantages that they use to maintain themselves.
Kyadytim
Profile Joined March 2009
United States886 Posts
May 17 2018 06:44 GMT
#4108
On May 17 2018 05:38 Plansix wrote:


So the master plan is to catch families of illegal immigrants, House their children separately and then go through the endless deportation process and hope no one fucks up during that time.

These deportation tactics get more draconian the longer Sessions and others run the show.

Don't worry, according to Trump Glorious Leader himself, "These aren't people. These are animals."
And it's totally okay to cram animals into structures like warehouses.
+ Show Spoiler +


/s

Using dehumanization rhetoric to armor the consciences of the subset of the population that they represent against the guilt of violence against the rest of the population and foreigners is not a good look for any nation. It's hard to not put this next to that IDF tweet.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17983 Posts
May 17 2018 06:53 GMT
#4109
On May 17 2018 15:44 Kyadytim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2018 05:38 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/JesseLehrich/status/996449369971937287

So the master plan is to catch families of illegal immigrants, House their children separately and then go through the endless deportation process and hope no one fucks up during that time.

These deportation tactics get more draconian the longer Sessions and others run the show.

Don't worry, according to Trump Glorious Leader himself, "These aren't people. These are animals."
And it's totally okay to cram animals into structures like warehouses.
+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ9a0BV7YfI


/s

Using dehumanization rhetoric to armor the consciences of the subset of the population that they represent against the guilt of violence against the rest of the population and foreigners is not a good look for any nation. It's hard to not put this next to that IDF tweet.

Or, you know:
[image loading]
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-17 06:57:17
May 17 2018 06:54 GMT
#4110
On May 17 2018 15:44 Kyadytim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2018 05:38 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/JesseLehrich/status/996449369971937287

So the master plan is to catch families of illegal immigrants, House their children separately and then go through the endless deportation process and hope no one fucks up during that time.

These deportation tactics get more draconian the longer Sessions and others run the show.

Don't worry, according to Trump Glorious Leader himself, "These aren't people. These are animals."
And it's totally okay to cram animals into structures like warehouses.
+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ9a0BV7YfI


/s

Using dehumanization rhetoric to armor the consciences of the subset of the population that they represent against the guilt of violence against the rest of the population and foreigners is not a good look for any nation. It's hard to not put this next to that IDF tweet.


You'd think posting in this thread this long would make one suspicious of getting an answer to a question without the actual question. Of course you went the extra (backwards) mile and didn't even quote a story which would enable anyone to follow up even a little bit.

He was talking about MS-13 gang members, as context makes clear. Although most of the news stories either bury that or just don't mention it. And this is why we get the moniker "fake news."

+ Show Spoiler +

go to 2:05
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
May 17 2018 07:24 GMT
#4111
Reporter: .... MS-13 ....

DJT: ... we are taking people out of the country, you wouldn't believe how bad these people are. These aren't people. These are animals. ...

He was plainly referring to the people being deported as animals. He never says MS-13 and doesn't refer to deporting MS-13 people. Even when primed by a friendly question DJT is too stupid to stay on script. DJT is crystal clear that all the people he is deporting aren't people, they are animals. He never limited his discussion to MS-13.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-17 07:49:05
May 17 2018 07:38 GMT
#4112
I don't think it's impossible that he heard MS13 and that got stuck in his head while he responded to the question (which is annoyingly hard to decipher in the audio). If he had been someone who is capable of both thinking and speaking at the same time, took his time when speaking like Obama did, or had simply been more careful in his chosen words, I think he would have likely mentioned MS13 specifically in his response. He might even, in his simplistic brain, just think that saying "these people are animals" would make it clear to the listener that he was using that phrase a synonym for MS13 members (whoever that is).

Just think about how he tends to drift in and out of sentences a lot. A reference to MS13 in his response could have been lost at any point.

Also, the dehumanization of foreigners started when the Americans first used the phrase "American exceptionalism".
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-17 07:55:39
May 17 2018 07:51 GMT
#4113
There have to be more important issues on which to burn all of one's credibility. It's not that he's "simple" or "stupid," it's that it's plain to everyone who can turn off the special Trump centers of their brains for 30 seconds that, when asked about MS-13, he responds by talking about MS-13. If he said "MS-13" he'd probably get criticized for saying it when the lady already said it. "He's so stupid he has to repeat what people say to him out loud!"

And it is certainly ridiculous for so many people and reporters to be presenting this as simply "Donald Trump's opinion on immigrants" without even allowing for an alternative interpretation. That's not journalism, it's advocacy. Considering that so many people don't read past the headline, it's espeically egregious.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17983 Posts
May 17 2018 07:56 GMT
#4114
On May 17 2018 16:51 Introvert wrote:
There have to be more important issues on which to burn all of one's credibility. It's not that he's "simple" or "stupid," it's that it's plain to everyone who can turn off the special Trump centers of their brains for 30 seconds that, when asked about MS-13, he responds by talking about MS-13. If he said "MS-13" he'd probably get criticized for saying it when the lady already said it. "He's so stupid he has to repeat what people say to him out loud!"

And it is certainly ridiculous for so many people and reporters to be simply presenting this as "Donald Trump's opinion on immigrants" without even allowing an alternative interpretation.

Or rather than criticizing the general population, none of who can make sense of the word salad that "dear leader" confuses for the English language, you criticize "dear leader" himself for being so utterly obtuse that nobody knows *what* he's talking about half the time he opens his mouth. This allows people to read into his speech a general opinion on immigrants or a specific criticism of MS-13 gang members, and even with the context we can't tell whether Trump was even answering the question or off on a ranting tangent.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-17 08:20:41
May 17 2018 08:09 GMT
#4115
Actually, I suspect it is only one segment of the "general population" that is having an issue here.

And I'll support that by saying that if this was actual, genuine confusion that we would actually have been provided more context. The distinct lack of context appears intentional, and given the nature of the comment sans the proceeding complaint by the other speaker, is left out to confirm the priors of that population segment.

edit: and I am amused by the implication that I'm a cultist, it kind of made me laugh, lol.

edit2: I will extend an olive branch and say that this wouldn't h as open if he just didn't use the word.Im not sure that's fair to him, but perhaps it should be taken into consideration
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
May 17 2018 08:38 GMT
#4116
On May 17 2018 17:09 Introvert wrote:
Actually, I suspect it is only one segment of the "general population" that is having an issue here.

And I'll support that by saying that if this was actual, genuine confusion that we would actually have been provided more context. The distinct lack of context appears intentional, and given the nature of the comment sans the proceeding complaint by the other speaker, is left out to confirm the priors of that population segment.

edit: and I am amused by the implication that I'm a cultist, it kind of made me laugh, lol.

edit2: I will extend an olive branch and say that this wouldn't h as open if he just didn't use the word.Im not sure that's fair to him, but perhaps it should be taken into consideration


Trump's diatribes are well known for having everyone interpret what they want from what he says. And he very rarely provides more context for the things he says. Hell, pinning him down to give an actual opinion is nearly impossible. Remember the journalist who said they wanted a bit of clarity to avoid printing fake news accidentally, and Trump immediately walked away and pretended to go through some papers?

He neither stands by the things he says, nor backs down from saying them. It's pretty disingenuous to ignore a common theme with your President because it happens to suit you in the moment.

Though yes, in this precise instance, I always read it as him talking about MS-13.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-17 10:38:44
May 17 2018 10:38 GMT
#4117
I do not believe it is appropriate for the US president to use such easily misunderstood language when talking about immigration. He possess vast powers and influence over how immigrants, legal and illegal are treated. The president is not afforded the benefit of doubt.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-17 12:27:36
May 17 2018 10:52 GMT
#4118
On May 17 2018 17:09 Introvert wrote:
Actually, I suspect it is only one segment of the "general population" that is having an issue here.

And I'll support that by saying that if this was actual, genuine confusion that we would actually have been provided more context. The distinct lack of context appears intentional, and given the nature of the comment sans the proceeding complaint by the other speaker, is left out to confirm the priors of that population segment.

edit: and I am amused by the implication that I'm a cultist, it kind of made me laugh, lol.

edit2: I will extend an olive branch and say that this wouldn't h as open if he just didn't use the word.Im not sure that's fair to him, but perhaps it should be taken into consideration

Trump is well known for putting things so that they can be interpreted either way. In fact that's one of his selling points.
Go back a year in time, check breitbart comments on issue X and you'll find people explaining why his stance A on it is great and in the next comment people talking about why his stance B, which is directly opposed to A, is great.

People on both sides have to interpret what he says with all kinds of issues. It's just that you don't hear about it on the right unless you look for it.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
May 17 2018 14:07 GMT
#4119
On May 17 2018 16:51 Introvert wrote:
There have to be more important issues on which to burn all of one's credibility. It's not that he's "simple" or "stupid," it's that it's plain to everyone who can turn off the special Trump centers of their brains for 30 seconds that, when asked about MS-13, he responds by talking about MS-13. If he said "MS-13" he'd probably get criticized for saying it when the lady already said it. "He's so stupid he has to repeat what people say to him out loud!"

And it is certainly ridiculous for so many people and reporters to be presenting this as simply "Donald Trump's opinion on immigrants" without even allowing for an alternative interpretation. That's not journalism, it's advocacy. Considering that so many people don't read past the headline, it's espeically egregious.


Yea, you don't really have a leg to stand on when complaining about this kind of irrational bias. It really amazes me how Republicans, by becoming disgustingly partisan and electing horrific demagogues to office, completely destroyed almost any sense of decency, bipartisanship, ethical conduct, and reasonable discourse in our political process and yet think they can then criticize anyone else on it.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 17 2018 14:37 GMT
#4120
All the reports I have read about those statements say that Trump attempting to talk about criminals and the MS-13, but did little to separate those folks from regular immigrants. The man has a hard time stringing coherent sentences together and the press is going to report on those sentences.

Also, it is poor reporting to not take into account the worst interoperation of that sort of statement. The claims that people are “looking for ways to make Trump seem racist” are true. Racist in the US are looking for any sign that Trump is there guy. And ham fisted statements like the one yesterday back up their belief that Trump is one of them.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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