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On May 02 2019 06:59 Gorsameth wrote:And in a 'shocking' move Barr is apparently not going to appear before the House committee tomorrow. edition.cnn.comI'm sure some here will say its because the Democrats would just be mean to him and its pointless to have a second go but think for 2 seconds what you would have said if a Democrat AG refused to appear before the House Judiciary Committee over supposed bad conduct.
Because the house and the senate are not two completely separate bodies. He might have just as well have wrote ”make me, bitch” on the letter.
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It was off course to much to think that after the mueller report was published all this would be over.
But its not lol,it just goes on and on and on.
American politics has never been this exhausting to follow. I cant even remember an importent subject beeing the news,like economy or foreign politics,human rights. I dont even care what,anything but mueller investigation and folow up would feel as a relief by now.
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Barr turned down the House invite because the Dems were going to have staff attorneys ask questions for like an hour (like what happened with Justice Duffman but slightly different).
Barr doesnt want to be grilled by people who are likely experts on the relevant subjects, so he is using the format as an excuse to back out.
If he is so certain in his convictions he should show up.
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On May 02 2019 07:26 On_Slaught wrote:
Barr turned down the House invite because the Dems were going to have staff attorneys ask questions for like an hour (like what happened with Justice Duffman but slightly different).
Barr doesnt want to be grilled by people who are likely experts on the relevant subjects, so he is using the format as an excuse to back out. I remember something about using a Prosecuter to interview a suspected victim of sexual assault in front of Congress.
Wonder if Republicans were ok with that.
Oh wait, it was the Republicans who did that.
Whatya know.
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You saw how Harris handled him. It would be hours of that and nothing else. The man isn’t stupid, but this isn’t going to end just because he said “nope”.
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It's funny how Barr thinks he's somehow above being dragged over coals. He's just some dude. He is not special at all.
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Northern Ireland25449 Posts
On May 02 2019 07:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2019 06:43 xDaunt wrote:On May 02 2019 06:22 JimmiC wrote:
You have probably explained this already so my apologies. But why is Mueller so biased against Trump? I've talked about it before, but the fact of Mueller's bias becomes quite clear when you look at the entire body of work that he has done as special counsel. There has been nothing that he has done as special counsel that has benefited Trump. Every action that he has taken has been tailor made to hurt Trump. This is most obvious when reviewing the structure of the report. But you can even see the bias continuing with this letter to Barr nonsense that came up last night. Why exactly is Mueller writing a letter to Barr to complain about Barr's summary letter? Did Mueller object to the accuracy of what Barr said? Nope! He complained about the political perception of the impact of Barr's letter upon Mueller's investigation. Let me repeat it: a purportedly unbiased and fair law enforcement officer cared about politics. And crucially, Mueller seemed only to care because the political considerations seemed to favor Trump. Place this in contrast with Mueller's outright refusal to come out and say that there was no evidence that Trump illegally conspired with the Russians despite knowing that there was no such evidence almost as soon as he was appointed special counsel, and Mueller's bias is undeniable. As for the cause of this bias, I don't know. And if he is and had the opportunity (as Barr said he could) to recommend indicting why didnt he? Because, like I have said before, the charge was bullshit on the merits and wouldn't withstand scrutiny in court. As an outsider it appears to me like Mueller attempted to not be biased. If anything since he is a republican I would think that he would be biased for Trump. I do get that Trump is a "outsider" but he is appointing the judges reps want, doing the tax shit they want, why would he want to get rid of Trump.
What is Trump doing that he would want to stop? I've written about this at length, and don't have time to go into it again right now. But it is an absolute mistake to look at Trump through a republican vs democrat lens. Opposition to Trump goes far beyond the political parties and touches huge international interests. All bureaucrats care about politics and the people. It is part of their job to do so and it greatly effects the ability to do the job. I disagree that he only thought Barr's summary was bad politically, what he wrote to me says he disagreed with the summary itself. If I spent months and months working on something and someone summarized it in a way that I disagreed with I would also be mad. And to your last point I would be interested in what policy it is that he is doing or pushing for that the "traditional" reps are so mad about that they would try to impeach him. Because if it just his attitude and so on sure I could see them hating but as long as he is doing what they want Im sure they prefer that to the chances of a Dem President. Which if Trump got impeached would be likely. Wouldnt it make more sense to just oust him after his term? This would be a terrible strategy. To GH's point I get that, that is human nature if you are constantly insulted you are not going to like someone. Not sure it would make you create a giant conspiracy that would risk your career and jail time.
God forbid a guy not be some bureaucratic robot.
Granted I’m far from a model of restraint in my life, but I’d absolutely pull a Mueller (well actually I’d pull way worse) once I was done.
The summary wasn’t exactly 100% accurate, from an appointment made by the very man the investigation centred around, a man who used his pulpit to continually attack the investigation for months, an investigation in which fuck all leaked from either which is a credit to Mueller and his team in that regard.
How can he avoid politics when the investigation was clearly motivated by politics (although I feel it was worth pursuing anyway), and its subject has played the ‘everyone is out to get me’ card for the umpteenth time?
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To GH's point I get that, that is human nature if you are constantly insulted you are not going to like someone. Not sure it would make you create a giant conspiracy that would risk your career and jail time.
Have you met the FBI? lol. I'm kidding (I don't think that's the case here) I was just pointing out not indicting Trump was probably not his personal preference.
On May 02 2019 07:16 pmh wrote:
It was off course to much to think that after the mueller report was published all this would be over.
But its not lol,it just goes on and on and on.
American politics has never been this exhausting to follow. I cant even remember an importent subject beeing the news,like economy or foreign politics,human rights. I dont even care what,anything but mueller investigation and folow up would feel as a relief by now.
I try to regularly mention something about the climate crisis, a humans rights issue, and a labor issue (it's still May Day), but like corporate news, everything always circles back to Mueller even though his investigation concluded and Trump's not getting indicted/impeached.
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On May 02 2019 07:32 Mohdoo wrote:
It's funny how Barr thinks he's somehow above being dragged over coals. He's just some dude. He is not special at all.
Did you watch Hirono and Blumenthal's questioning? I mean talk about dimwitted partisans just using their time to slander someone for political profit. Whitehouse is right up there too.
But you do have a point. No matter who Trump nominated and the Senate confirmed, Democrats would lie and whatever ploys they think would work to call him a lying crook. They are way too invested in this issue, so they have to find a way to turn defeat into victory.
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United States24690 Posts
On May 02 2019 07:59 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2019 07:32 Mohdoo wrote:
It's funny how Barr thinks he's somehow above being dragged over coals. He's just some dude. He is not special at all. Did you watch Hirono and Blumenthal's questioning? I mean talk about dimwitted partisans just using their time to slander someone for political profit. Whitehouse is right up there too. Do you consider it equally bad when Republicans (in the House/Senate) do this? Do Republicans do this as bad as you are describing in this case? Within the past few years, I mean.
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On May 02 2019 08:03 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2019 07:59 Danglars wrote:On May 02 2019 07:32 Mohdoo wrote:
It's funny how Barr thinks he's somehow above being dragged over coals. He's just some dude. He is not special at all. Did you watch Hirono and Blumenthal's questioning? I mean talk about dimwitted partisans just using their time to slander someone for political profit. Whitehouse is right up there too. Do you consider it equally bad when Republicans (in the House/Senate) do this? Do Republicans do this as bad as you are describing in this case? Within the past few years, I mean.
The most recent case I've studied where what was in the Benghazi hearings, and a handful of Republicans did this about as bad.
I'm open to other cases you may bring to my attention. You have previously shown yourself to be evenhanded when dispassionate on a subject. Hit me with any other times you think the Republicans behaved this dishonorably in Congressional hearings.
So, let me put this right back at you, having answered your question. Can you lay aside your feelings on the merits of the findings conclusion, and give your opinion on whether or not you approve of these Senator's conduct on the hearing?
+ Show Spoiler +
As long as it takes you to generate a properly considered response, I'll read it and await it. I'd rather not have your gut reaction if tomorrow I might read a more conscientious opinion.
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United States42772 Posts
On May 02 2019 07:59 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2019 07:32 Mohdoo wrote:
It's funny how Barr thinks he's somehow above being dragged over coals. He's just some dude. He is not special at all. Did you watch Hirono and Blumenthal's questioning? I mean talk about dimwitted partisans just using their time to slander someone for political profit. Whitehouse is right up there too. But you do have a point. No matter who Trump nominated and the Senate confirmed, Democrats would lie and whatever ploys they think would work to call him a lying crook. They are way too invested in this issue, so they have to find a way to turn defeat into victory.
Except Barr promised to exonerate Trump on his job application for the position so it’s not unreasonable for him to be grilled over his exoneration of Trump.
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On May 02 2019 07:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2019 06:43 xDaunt wrote:On May 02 2019 06:22 JimmiC wrote:
You have probably explained this already so my apologies. But why is Mueller so biased against Trump? I've talked about it before, but the fact of Mueller's bias becomes quite clear when you look at the entire body of work that he has done as special counsel. There has been nothing that he has done as special counsel that has benefited Trump. Every action that he has taken has been tailor made to hurt Trump. This is most obvious when reviewing the structure of the report. But you can even see the bias continuing with this letter to Barr nonsense that came up last night. Why exactly is Mueller writing a letter to Barr to complain about Barr's summary letter? Did Mueller object to the accuracy of what Barr said? Nope! He complained about the political perception of the impact of Barr's letter upon Mueller's investigation. Let me repeat it: a purportedly unbiased and fair law enforcement officer cared about politics. And crucially, Mueller seemed only to care because the political considerations seemed to favor Trump. Place this in contrast with Mueller's outright refusal to come out and say that there was no evidence that Trump illegally conspired with the Russians despite knowing that there was no such evidence almost as soon as he was appointed special counsel, and Mueller's bias is undeniable. As for the cause of this bias, I don't know. And if he is and had the opportunity (as Barr said he could) to recommend indicting why didnt he? Because, like I have said before, the charge was bullshit on the merits and wouldn't withstand scrutiny in court. As an outsider it appears to me like Mueller attempted to not be biased. If anything since he is a republican I would think that he would be biased for Trump. I do get that Trump is a "outsider" but he is appointing the judges reps want, doing the tax shit they want, why would he want to get rid of Trump.
What is Trump doing that he would want to stop? I've written about this at length, and don't have time to go into it again right now. But it is an absolute mistake to look at Trump through a republican vs democrat lens. Opposition to Trump goes far beyond the political parties and touches huge international interests. All bureaucrats care about politics and the people. It is part of their job to do so and it greatly effects the ability to do the job. I disagree that he only thought Barr's summary was bad politically, what he wrote to me says he disagreed with the summary itself. If I spent months and months working on something and someone summarized it in a way that I disagreed with I would also be mad.
There's no basis for this disagreement. You can read the report and you can read the summary and you can compare the both of them. Barr's summary accurately captures of the bottom line findings of Mueller's report. Hell, this should be obvious from the fact that Barr liberally quotes Mueller's report in his letter. There is no basis to dispute this, which is why there is no doubt that what Mueller really cares about is how Barr manipulated the optics surrounding the release of the report and undid Mueller's intended effect.
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Only one way to be sure and that is for Mueller to testify before congress into exactly what he meant.
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I'm not really convinced barr has engaged in misconduct post-myeller but I think he probably has a bit of political bias about him. I would not at all he surprised if he encouraged trump to pardon everyone who has been charged. After Iran contra, barr encouraged Bush to pardon everyone who the independent counsel charged with crimes, because he thought they had been treated unfairly. I also wouldn't be surprised If barr orders an investigation of uranium one, considering that he said at some point in the past couple years that the DOJ would be "abdicating its responsibility" if it weren't investigating uranium one. And he said this to a reporter no less.
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On May 02 2019 10:53 Doodsmack wrote:
I'm not really convinced barr has engaged in misconduct post-myeller but I think he probably has a bit of political bias about him. I would not at all he surprised if he encouraged trump to pardon everyone who has been charged. After Iran contra, barr encouraged Bush to pardon everyone who the independent counsel charged with crimes, because he thought they had been treated unfairly. I also wouldn't be surprised If barr orders an investigation of uranium one, considering that he said at some point in the past couple years that the DOJ would be "abdicating its responsibility" if it weren't investigating uranium one. And he said this to a reporter no less.
This the right way to look at it. Barr is absolutely engaging in politics, but there is nothing inappropriate about how he is handling the Mueller report. He simply is countering the obvious political moves of Mueller and his team. I find it quite amusing that the same people who are accusing Barr of misconduct seem incapable of recognizing Mueller’s own political moves and motives. All of that said, the virulence with Democrats are attacking Barr is quite striking and out of the ordinary. I get the sense that they suspect that Barr is going to drop the hammer once the OIG report comes out this month.
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On May 02 2019 10:53 Doodsmack wrote:
I'm not really convinced barr has engaged in misconduct post-myeller but I think he probably has a bit of political bias about him. I would not at all he surprised if he encouraged trump to pardon everyone who has been charged. After Iran contra, barr encouraged Bush to pardon everyone who the independent counsel charged with crimes, because he thought they had been treated unfairly. I also wouldn't be surprised If barr orders an investigation of uranium one, considering that he said at some point in the past couple years that the DOJ would be "abdicating its responsibility" if it weren't investigating uranium one. And he said this to a reporter no less.
Which would mean Cohen might serve the longest sentence of anyone involved which would be remarkably funny, though Barr did make a deal out of pardoning all the Iran-Contra folks rather than some.
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On May 02 2019 11:05 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2019 10:53 Doodsmack wrote:
I'm not really convinced barr has engaged in misconduct post-myeller but I think he probably has a bit of political bias about him. I would not at all he surprised if he encouraged trump to pardon everyone who has been charged. After Iran contra, barr encouraged Bush to pardon everyone who the independent counsel charged with crimes, because he thought they had been treated unfairly. I also wouldn't be surprised If barr orders an investigation of uranium one, considering that he said at some point in the past couple years that the DOJ would be "abdicating its responsibility" if it weren't investigating uranium one. And he said this to a reporter no less. This the right way to look at it. Barr is absolutely engaging in politics, but there is nothing inappropriate about how he is handling the Mueller report. He simply is countering the obvious political moves of Mueller and his team. I find it quite amusing that the same people who are accusing Barr of misconduct seem incapable of recognizing Mueller’s own political moves and motives. All of that said, the virulence with Democrats are attacking Barr is quite striking and out of the ordinary. I get the sense that they suspect that Barr is going to drop the hammer once the OIG report comes out this month.
As if Mueller's role as investigator and Barr's as leader of the DoJ are equivalent. Well at least your being up front about him being a blatant political actor. Shame we can't expect more from the Attorney General of the US (Democrats AGs have failed this test as well).
Did any of the Dems ask him today who he represented: Trump or the US? Any person watching him out of context in any of his recent public outings would assume he us the personal attorney of Trump.
Or wait... maybe he thinks Trump IS the US?! That def aligns with what the cultists seem to believe.
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EPT
