US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1293

On April 09 2019 00:17 Plansix wrote:

Trump’s amazing political skills to stumble into a win in 2016 by one of the closest margins in history, lose the popular vote and lead his party to a sound beating in 2018. A bottomless reservoir of skill.

On April 09 2019 00:31 IgnE wrote:


It’s a bit silly to mock Trump for his “amazing” political skills. It’s like you are mocking David for just barely knocking out Goliath

On April 09 2019 00:31 IgnE wrote:


It’s a bit silly to mock Trump for his “amazing” political skills. It’s like you are mocking David for only just barely knocking out Goliath

On April 08 2019 23:40 byte-Curious wrote:


Hah, that's precisely what I said when Sen. Warren started to get dragged into the mud with him on that stupid Pocahontas issue, which was a colossal fail for her. If she stuck to policies, she would rape him over the coals in the general election.

On April 09 2019 00:29 IgnE wrote:


Seems like what the democrats need is a better master narrative that can actually capture a majority. Troll farms that push factious, even flagitious, narratives destabilize any attempt to do that. And as we’ve seen, conservatives, broadly speaking, are much better at holding a coalition of voters together. This will be probably true at least until 2024 (or Trump dies).

On April 09 2019 00:31 IgnE wrote:


It’s a bit silly to mock Trump for his “amazing” political skills. It’s like you are mocking David for only just barely knocking out Goliath

On April 09 2019 00:50 Danglars wrote:

Everyone knows Goliath was doomed to die beforehand. Everybody knows Trump was the huge favorite, so a close electoral victory was basically a loss for him. Everyone knows presidents are supposed to win the first midterm after election—just look at Obama, Bush, Clinton!

On April 09 2019 01:01 GreenHorizons wrote:


You joke but this is why the Russia narrative won't die. In order to keep a worldview that has a terrible deal maker and candidate in Trump, but maintains Democrats are good/acceptable and somehow stumbled onto the wrong candidate, one needs Russia to do far more than it did and to ignore that Trump's meetings with Netanyahu and actions in Israel blow away even the most egregious political interference tied to Russia both in impact and terribleness.

There's a similar path for Republicans for why they won't let Clinton and the "deep state" go. Trump isn't a voraciously selfish narcissist who duped people into thinking he gave a rats ass about them. See, he's fighting off the deep state, Democrats and Republicans in the interest of the people and saying what needs to be said about blah blah. It's gotta be the latter because the first one crushes their worldview as much as the whole Russia thing being stagecraft does for Democrats.

On April 09 2019 00:31 IgnE wrote:


It’s a bit silly to mock Trump for his “amazing” political skills. It’s like you are mocking David for only just barely knocking out Goliath

On April 09 2019 01:01 GreenHorizons wrote:
There's a similar path for Republicans for why they won't let Clinton and the "deep state" go. Trump isn't a voraciously selfish narcissist who duped people into thinking he gave a rats ass about them. See, he's fighting off the deep state, Democrats and Republicans in the interest of the people and saying what needs to be said about blah blah. It's gotta be the latter because the first one crushes their worldview as much as the whole Russia thing being stagecraft does for Democrats.

On April 09 2019 01:23 Danglars wrote:

You’re dead on as usual for why the Democrats can’t let collusion die.

Populists exist as an emergency lever for when people think elites in Washington work for their own interest and DC received wisdom instead of representing the interests of the people voting for them. I think he’ll be ineffectual against “deep state” broadly, aside from pissing them off and forcing some propaganda battles. I saw Hillary as being more effectual with the deep state as an ally and aligned against my interests and freedoms. Better a morally bankrupt fighter getting very little done (exception on cutting regulation and tax cuts and Israel foreign policy and title IX, minor exception on itty bitty sections of wall) than an enemy getting lots of stuff done that I think is really bad for the country. I know my thinking on the matter is very controversial in these parts, and most of the counter arguments that make good points too.

On April 09 2019 01:30 xDaunt wrote:


This needs some correction and clarification. Conservative suspicion of the deep state / the Swamp did not begin with Trump. It is something that has always been inherent in conservative values of limited government. It only exploded into true political prominence following the W years with the rise of the Tea Party. Trump simply recognized conservative disdain for the Swamp and ran with it.

What is new with Trump, however, and what is related to this Russia nonsense, is a sense among conservatives that the system is actually corrupt and rigged. Conservatives openly talk about there being a "two-tiered justice system." That phrase was never used three years ago. I can't stress enough the significance of this development. Conservatives are actually losing faith in their government. This is why I rail so much on this Russia conspiracy stuff and am so hot to take down all of the government actors that foisted this crap upon the country. I see justice being done in this regard as being a necessary condition to restoring faith in the system. And I'm not alone in this sentiment. The conservative base is mad as hell about what has happened, and will not tolerate any politician who advocates simply letting all of this go now that Mueller has wrapped up his investigation.

On April 09 2019 01:33 GreenHorizons wrote:


Pretty much. I think Trump would fight for communism if it promised to make him an independent King of NY though. But even with that, the basic idea of stopping the success of Hillary makes sense. What I think your mistake is, is that her effectiveness and centrism would have been more effective at things like building a wall, the tax cut/repatriation bill would have been much better for upper-middle class taxpayers rather than CEO's, a steadfast ally of Israel, etc.... You traded opposition to title XI and more vocal and flamboyant rhetoric around the border, police, etc... for all of those and partisan gratification in my view.

That's the game and how the donor class can't lose and why we always will as long as we keep playing.

On April 09 2019 01:50 Danglars wrote:

Trumps a gut instinct guy and pretty non-ideological except for maybe trade. If his instincts led him to communism, he’d be fighting for that right now.

Hillary’s base is de-facto open borders and catch-and-release. Cheap laborers for big business interests, moral agreement and more voters for her other supporters. Her base also doesn’t like tax cuts, and her donors would craft exceptions for their businesses in any tax increases.

You’ve stated your point about your the donor class sustainment cycle in the past, so I think we understand each other on that.

On April 09 2019 02:02 Plansix wrote:
We need to bring back Robber Barons. Donor class just doesn’t the same ring to it. And Job Creators is dull as shit. We need modern term evocative enough to encompass everyone from Jeff Bezos to the Koch brothers all together into one basket.

But then I need another basket for rich assholes that went the extra mile, like Erik Prince.

On April 09 2019 01:24 Doodsmack wrote:


He doesn't have amazing political skills, so he should be mocked. He won by an accident. Stumbled across the finish line and got lucky against a historically bad candidate. David won by skill and precision.

White House senior adviser Stephen Miller wants to make sure that outgoing Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen is only the first of a string of senior officials headed out the door.

Trump administration officials say that Miller, who played key a role in Nielsen's ouster, also wants the President to dismiss the director of United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, Lee Cissna, and the department's general counsel, John Mitnick.

A senior administration official also said that under the law, DHS Under Secretary of Management Claire Grady, the current acting deputy secretary, is next in line of succession to be acting secretary. That means there are questions as to whether she will need to be fired as well in order to make Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan the acting DHS secretary, as Trump tweeted Sunday night.

Miller's heightened influence within the West Wing has been aided by the President, who recently told aides in an Oval Office meeting that Miller was in charge of all immigration and border related issues in the White House, according to a person familiar with the meeting.

On April 09 2019 02:21 Plansix wrote:
In other news, Steven Miller and other immigration hard liners want to oust more of the leadership in Homeland Security, from CNNs reports. And it seems that the information is coming directly from the White House, not from anonymous White House sources or the like. Not an encouraging sign, since we are moving from a national security agency that was lead by a senate confirmed leader to Miller and whoever does what Miller and Trump say.

From all the reporting, the rift seems to be between those who want to obey the laws and order from the court and Trump, who does not. This is concerning because there isn't a lot beyond the courts that can stop ICE and the border patrol from doing whatever they want to asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. And its not like they were well known for obeying local laws to begin with.

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