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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
On January 18 2019 22:54 Plansix wrote: Account created today, first post about Gillette by complaining about Procter and Gamble. Gee, I wonder what the intent of this post is? This some low grade bait. I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. Username checks out. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On January 18 2019 22:54 Plansix wrote: Account created today, first post about Gillette by complaining about Procter and Gamble. Gee, I wonder what the intent of this post is? This some low grade bait. I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. Gillette put out a commercial that was basically a "we need to strive to be better and deal with this toxic masculinity bullshit we've got going on." and the right got butthurt about it. As such, they're trying to use this to dismiss the commercial as just a ploy to get women who do the shopping to buy their men Gillette razors. edit: Here's the commercial. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
Great asses. I enjoyed clicking the link. I don't even give a shit about Gillette or peoples opinions on whatever happened (i don't even know nor do i care) but if i see nice asses, i upvote. I'm a simple man. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9887 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:01 Gahlo wrote: Gillette put out a commercial that was basically a "we need to strive to be better and deal with this toxic masculinity bullshit we've got going on." and the right got butthurt about it. As such, they're trying to use this to dismiss the commercial as just a ploy to get women who do the shopping to buy their men Gillette razors. Do you even doubt this for a second? Do you really think some advertising execs at Gilette sat around thinking 'How can we change the world for the better?' | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:03 Jockmcplop wrote: Do you even doubt this for a second? Do you really think some advertising execs at Gilette sat around thinking 'How can we change the world for the better?' It's an advertisement, so yes, the goal is to make money, but that doesn't invalidate the message. However, there's a difference to saying "Good point, but they're taking advantage of this to make money the same way people are with feminism" and "lul the message is just bullshit to get you to buy their crap." There will be people that end up using Gillette products because of this commercial, but there's also people that will get so butthurt about it that they drop using their products as well. | ||
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malicious_evil
2 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:01 Gahlo wrote: Gillette put out a commercial that was basically a "we need to strive to be better and deal with this toxic masculinity bullshit we've got going on." and the right got butthurt about it. As such, they're trying to use this to dismiss the commercial as just a ploy to get women who do the shopping to buy their men Gillette razors. edit: Here's the commercial. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0&ab_channel=Gillette I was being sarcastic. I 100% know want the post is about. I was commenting on how obvious it was. Dudes getting upset over that commercial are kinda sad. I can’t imagine having such a low opinion of myself that I would feel attacked by that ads. On January 18 2019 23:07 Gahlo wrote: It's an advertisement, so yes, the goal is to make money, but that doesn't invalidate the message. However, there's a difference to saying "Good point, but they're taking advantage of this to make money the same way people are with feminism" and "lul the message is just bullshit to get you to buy their crap." There will be people that end up using Gillette products because of this commercial, but there's also people that will get so butthurt about it that they drop using their products as well. Exactly. They could have made a commercial about anything, but they decided this would be a good way to advertise their brand. This preferable to advertising by promoting negative, toxic aspects of masculinity. Which is how most adverts go. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9887 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:07 Gahlo wrote: It's an advertisement, so yes, the goal is to make money, but that doesn't invalidate the message. However, there's a difference to saying "Good point, but they're taking advantage of this to make money the same way people are with feminism" and "lul the message is just bullshit to get you to buy their crap." Taking advantage of social problems to make money is far worse than spouting some bullshit to sell you crap. If a system that breeds inequality uses activism related to the inequality to promote further inequality and no-one notices then you have a problem, especially when its compounded over and over again. Its how social problems persist - complaints about them are repackaged and used to sell crap - which devalues the message behind the complaint. But yeah, the controversy around the content of the advert was actually completely manufactured. I'm at work now so I can't access Twitter but there's a thread on there somewhere about the BBC news articles regarding a 'boycott' and an 'uproar' where all of their sources were Twitter bot accounts with like 10 followers. The controversy around this was created by the news media - and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the people behind the advert were also behind the controversy around it. | ||
KwarK
United States44170 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:01 Gahlo wrote: Gillette put out a commercial that was basically a "we need to strive to be better and deal with this toxic masculinity bullshit we've got going on." and the right got butthurt about it. As such, they're trying to use this to dismiss the commercial as just a ploy to get women who do the shopping to buy their men Gillette razors. edit: Here's the commercial. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0&ab_channel=Gillette I enjoyed the Terry cameo. The man is a role model for all men everywhere. He conducts himself with courage, self respect, restraint, humility, and dignity in all he does. The message has value, even if it’s a commercial. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On January 18 2019 21:12 Gorsameth wrote: The cynic in my thinks Trump testifying before Congress that he told Cohen to lie would not be good enough to get Republicans to turn on him. It's definitely a crime, but how crimey is it in the big scheme of things? My crime-dar is a little out of whack these days. | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:14 KwarK wrote: I enjoyed the Terry cameo. The man is a role model for all men everywhere. He conducts himself with courage, self respect, restraint, humility, and dignity in all he does. The message has value, even if it’s a commercial. I saw him on MSNBC the other day and he was great. The way he articulates what's wrong with men and American culture in general is both easy to grasp and 100% correct. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8266 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:14 KwarK wrote: I enjoyed the Terry cameo. The man is a role model for all men everywhere. He conducts himself with courage, self respect, restraint, humility, and dignity in all he does. The message has value, even if it’s a commercial. What a wholesome commercial. Also why does the intent even matter. I keep having this debate every time a company does something good; "oooh it's only a cash grab". Yes, of course it is, but positive cash grabs should be reinforced. If a company does something good, the end result is "world is a better place", no matter the intention or how their bottom line looks like because of it. If every company in the world did good things "just for profit", this world would be a massively better place to live in. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9887 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:26 Excludos wrote: What a wholesome commercial. Also why does the intent even matter. I keep having this debate every time a company does something good; "oooh it's only a cash grab". Yes, of course it is, but positive cash grabs should be reinforced. If a company does something good, the end result is "world is a better place", no matter the intention or how their bottom line looks like because of it. If every company in the world did good things "just for profit", this world would be a massively better place to live in. There is no such thing as a positive cash grab. The message of this ad is 'buy more Gillette products' I suppose if you have a stake in Gillette's future the message is good. Put another way, if the wind of political opinion changed slightly tomorrow, the exact same people who made this would have no problem putting out an ad who's message was 'Use Gillette razors and you can headbutt your wife with a smooth, soft face' | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:30 Jockmcplop wrote: There is no such thing as a positive cash grab. The message of this ad is 'buy more Gillette products' I suppose if you have a stake in Gillette's future the message is good. Put another way, if the wind of political opinion changed slightly tomorrow, the exact same people who made this would have no problem putting out an ad who's message was 'Use Gillette razors and you can headbutt your wife with a smooth, soft face' This is some deeply cynical bullshit that devalues any human labor and effort that was put into that commercial. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9887 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:30 Plansix wrote: Movies are also cash grabs, but we talk about the positive and negative messages within them. The reductive dismissal of it as just a commercial is another vector of attack used by people uncomfortable with message. Nonsense - but its a nice sideways character attack. I'm perfectly comfortable discussing toxic masculinity and all of the problems it brings about. I'm against the advertising industry - the mass manipulation of entire populations for no other reason than to profit at others' expense. I'm especially against this when it co-opts an important message and devalues it in the process. Movies have artistic value, and their monetary gain is a product of the sum of that artistic value. Their purpose is to be a good movie and make money off the back of that. The purpose of an ad is to manipulate you into buying something else - the two are completely different. On January 18 2019 23:30 Plansix wrote: This is some deeply cynical bullshit that devalues any human labor and effort that was put into that commercial. Guilty. I have absolutely no respect for the advertising industry as a whole and I stick by that. If people want to make art they should do so in a less cynical fashion. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:32 Jockmcplop wrote: Nonsense - but its a nice sideways character attack. I'm perfectly comfortable discussing toxic masculinity and all of the problems it brings about. I'm against the advertising industry - the mass manipulation of entire populations for no other reason than to profit at others' expense. I'm especially against this when it co-opts an important message and devalues it in the process. Do you think I was attacking you with that comment? I don’t consider you some red-piller asshole who feels attacked any time someone points out the toxic aspects of male culture. Edit: Commercials can have artistic value. Depending on the commercial, there can be a lot of creative and experimental filming methods used. They are low risk projects and are not devoid of craft or artistic value. | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:01 Gahlo wrote: Gillette put out a commercial that was basically a "we need to strive to be better and deal with this toxic masculinity bullshit we've got going on." and the right got butthurt about it. As such, they're trying to use this to dismiss the commercial as just a ploy to get women who do the shopping to buy their men Gillette razors. edit: Here's the commercial. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0&ab_channel=Gillette Reading the comments on the video makes me so fucking sad. "Instead of the constant attacks on men and masculinity, how about we start appreciating and celebrating them? So for the real men, the manly men, the alpha men - real women appreciate you. Real women love you. Real women celebrate you. And real women are truly thankful for you ❤️" Idon'twanttoliveonthisplanetanymore. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9887 Posts
On January 18 2019 23:35 Plansix wrote: Do you think I was attacking you with that comment? I don’t consider you some red-piller asshole who feels attacked any time someone points out the toxic aspects of male culture. Yeah I maybe took that too personally - but there are other reasons to dismiss this than discomfort at the 'message' of the ad. On January 18 2019 23:35 Plansix wrote: Edit: Commercials can have artistic value. Depending on the commercial, there can be a lot of creative and experimental filming methods used. They are low risk projects and are not devoid of craft or artistic value. For me, the value of art is context dependent - and when that context is advertising the art is devalued, along with any message it claims. The intention is absolutely important. This is why grassroots art is so starved of money - because all of that money is funnelled into 'commercial' art, which is becoming more and more synonymous with advertising. The talent is being poached from making valuable community art projects and coaxed into the advertising industry to make some wads of cash. In terms of movies: It devalues a movie when all you can see in it is product placement. It literally takes you out of the moment and interferes with your suspension of disbelief. I don't hate this Gillette ad in particular by the way - its just all ads in general. I find the way it co-opts this message 'problematic' to say the least, and I think we should be able to discuss the harm that can be done when a good message is corrupted by its context. This is getting a bit off topic but I might start a blog about it because I find this kind of discussion very interesting. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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farvacola
United States18865 Posts
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