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On January 18 2019 05:30 Plansix wrote:
Omg, he canceled it while the congress members were at the airport and didn’t tell them. This is way worse than I thought. This isn’t going to go over well.
Edit: apparently we also stood up NATO commanders and our allies. We have reached the petulant child part of the presidency where he dares congress to limit his powers.
Nothing says commitment to allies like.... not showing up
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I don't feel particularly allied with the US.
Nor do i get the impression that the US government sees anyone in Brussels as an ally, so really, who cares. I in fact doubt that the NATO as we know it will survive Trumps presidency.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing: it would force the EU to come together and figure something else out, and the US could go to war to its hearts content, gotta keep that complex running. In the end, the USA isolating itself might be a blessing in disguise for the rest of the world, at least in that regard.
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I don’t know if people in the US still feel like they should be part of NATO or not. But what I do know is that the people in the US are stressed out by unknowns and big changes. NATO is the 70 year foundation of our relationship with Europe. Ending our participation in NATO is will feel great for some folks in the moment, but presents a big unknown for the future relations with Europe and beyond.
Or to put it another way, if we break up with Europe, it isn’t like they are going to stay single.
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who else is there? china or india? thats hard to imagine.
maybe the EU huddles closer together and tries to get in on the TPP or something. yes, i know TPP is a trade agreement but it 100% has broader geopolitical/ strategic implications.
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On January 18 2019 06:11 ticklishmusic wrote:
who else is there? china or india? thats hard to imagine.
maybe the EU huddles closer together and tries to get in on the TPP or something. yes, i know TPP is a trade agreement but it 100% has broader geopolitical/ strategic implications.
In a world where the US is no longer part of NATO and decreases its role abroad, anyone is an option. Never doubt the creativity of other nations to cut a deal once the US is out of the picture. None of this would happen instantly, but in +10 years a good chunk of the EU and China could be a lot closer.
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I actually agree with canceling the trip. It seems like a pretty unnecessary use of money and time given that we are in the middle of the longest shutdown in US history. From what I can see there is no part of the trip that cant wait.
Ofc with Trump being Trump he did it in the worst possible way by waiting until the last minute.
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Well they just told the press the response was purely political. I don’t think these folks are grasping that the House can force them to testify about their decision making. This is looking for quick wins on twitter when the other side is playing the long game.
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On January 18 2019 07:25 Plansix wrote:Well they just told the press the response was purely political. I don’t think these folks are grasping that the House can force them to testify about their decision making. This is looking for quick wins on twitter when the other side is playing the long game. https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1085999196816187394
"Let's be really really petty! That's the perfect response! I'm sure this will make us look really good"
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On January 18 2019 06:38 On_Slaught wrote:
I actually agree with canceling the trip. It seems like a pretty unnecessary use of money and time given that we are in the middle of the longest shutdown in US history. From what I can see there is no part of the trip that cant wait.
Ofc with Trump being Trump he did it in the worst possible way by waiting until the last minute.
It's not like the US suddenly doesn't have money because of the shutdown, they're just not using it because the budget hasn't been agreed upon. They have zero reason to save money other than the bottomless deficit, which a trip like this is the least of your worries, while maintaining a good international relation. This is just Trump throwing a tamper tantrum because he couldn't get his way.
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On January 18 2019 07:36 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 06:38 On_Slaught wrote:
I actually agree with canceling the trip. It seems like a pretty unnecessary use of money and time given that we are in the middle of the longest shutdown in US history. From what I can see there is no part of the trip that cant wait.
Ofc with Trump being Trump he did it in the worst possible way by waiting until the last minute. It's not like the US suddenly doesn't have money because of the shutdown, they're just not using it because the budget hasn't been agreed upon. They have zero reason to save money other than the bottomless deficit, which a trip like this is the least of your worries, while maintaining a good international relation. This is just Trump throwing a tamper tantrum because he couldn't get his way.
There is nothing time sensitive about the trip. Relations arent going to go to hell because a few politicians didn't go overseas to shake a few hands. If only for the optics they shouldn't be going since Pelosi is one of the main negotiators on the gov issue. If I was sitting at home with no paycheck I'd sure as hell be pissed that one of the few people needed to end this was kissing asses and getting her ass kissed in Brussels and the ME.
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On January 18 2019 06:07 Plansix wrote:
I don’t know if people in the US still feel like they should be part of NATO or not. But what I do know is that the people in the US are stressed out by unknowns and big changes. NATO is the 70 year foundation of our relationship with Europe. Ending our participation in NATO is will feel great for some folks in the moment, but presents a big unknown for the future relations with Europe and beyond.
Or to put it another way, if we break up with Europe, it isn’t like they are going to stay single.
Don't let us get ahead of ourselves, I don't think this is an option. The US needs NATO for military bases in strategic locations, intel and not the least: allied customers for the arms industry. Even Trump knows this, and he works together with the NATO leaders trying to make the other members spend more on the military.
About Trump as a military strategist, it will be curious to see how he handles the Turkey sitution!
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On January 18 2019 07:43 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 07:36 Excludos wrote:On January 18 2019 06:38 On_Slaught wrote:
I actually agree with canceling the trip. It seems like a pretty unnecessary use of money and time given that we are in the middle of the longest shutdown in US history. From what I can see there is no part of the trip that cant wait.
Ofc with Trump being Trump he did it in the worst possible way by waiting until the last minute. It's not like the US suddenly doesn't have money because of the shutdown, they're just not using it because the budget hasn't been agreed upon. They have zero reason to save money other than the bottomless deficit, which a trip like this is the least of your worries, while maintaining a good international relation. This is just Trump throwing a tamper tantrum because he couldn't get his way. There is nothing time sensitive about the trip. Relations arent going to go to hell because a few politicians didn't go overseas to shake a few hands. If only for the optics they shouldn't be going since Pelosi is one of the main negotiators on the gov issue. If I was sitting at home with no paycheck I'd sure as hell be pissed that one of the few people needed to end this was kissing asses and getting her ass kissed in Brussels and the ME.
What the do you think happens on the diplomatic meetings? Do you think foreign officials kiss the speaker of the House's feet? Do you think we do that when they visit? Their politicians are like our politicians, they smile for photos and are kinda jerks behind closed doors. Just because they are all smiles for the photo doesn't make the plane ride and meeting afterwords fun. Maybe they will have nice food.
Also, this is a pit stop in Brussels before they fly to Afghanistan for a weekend update with the troops so they can have a in person conversation with the commanders and see the troops. Its like a 22 hour flight one way. They are going to spend the majority of their time on a plane. Planes suck. They traveled to the airport by air force charter bus. Every part of this trip sounds like the mother fucking worst.
We have all been in the US pol thread for years, but do people not realize that working for the goverment mostly sucks? This trip included.
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On January 18 2019 07:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 07:43 On_Slaught wrote:On January 18 2019 07:36 Excludos wrote:On January 18 2019 06:38 On_Slaught wrote:
I actually agree with canceling the trip. It seems like a pretty unnecessary use of money and time given that we are in the middle of the longest shutdown in US history. From what I can see there is no part of the trip that cant wait.
Ofc with Trump being Trump he did it in the worst possible way by waiting until the last minute. It's not like the US suddenly doesn't have money because of the shutdown, they're just not using it because the budget hasn't been agreed upon. They have zero reason to save money other than the bottomless deficit, which a trip like this is the least of your worries, while maintaining a good international relation. This is just Trump throwing a tamper tantrum because he couldn't get his way. There is nothing time sensitive about the trip. Relations arent going to go to hell because a few politicians didn't go overseas to shake a few hands. If only for the optics they shouldn't be going since Pelosi is one of the main negotiators on the gov issue. If I was sitting at home with no paycheck I'd sure as hell be pissed that one of the few people needed to end this was kissing asses and getting her ass kissed in Brussels and the ME. What the do you think happens on the diplomatic meetings? Do you think foreign officials kiss the speaker of the House's feet? Do you think we do that when they visit? Their politicians are like our politicians, they smile for photos and are kinda jerks behind closed doors. Just because they are all smiles for the photo doesn't make the plane ride and meeting afterwords fun. Maybe they will have nice food. Also, this is a pit stop in Brussels before they fly to Afghanistan for a weekend update with the troops so they can have a in person conversation with the commanders and see the troops. Its like a 22 hour flight one way. They are going to spend the majority of their time on a plane. Planes suck. They traveled to the airport by air force charter bus. Every part of this trip sounds like the mother fucking worst. We have all been in the US pol thread for years, but do people not realize that working for the goverment mostly sucks? This trip included.
Ok? I still maintain that trying to have this trip at this time was a poor decision on Pelosis part. You begin ceding the high ground on workers not getting paid when you are going overseas mid negotiations. If you believe this shutdown is the biggest crisis facing America now, as you conveyed in your speech last week, then act like it. Stop skipping meetings, regardless of Trumps stupid antics, and at least look like you're trying.
Hell, I'm still waiting for the comprehensive deal that gives DACA protections for the wall. Word is Trumps own aids, including possibly Kushner, arent against something like that. Get it done.
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On January 18 2019 08:09 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 07:55 Plansix wrote:On January 18 2019 07:43 On_Slaught wrote:On January 18 2019 07:36 Excludos wrote:On January 18 2019 06:38 On_Slaught wrote:
I actually agree with canceling the trip. It seems like a pretty unnecessary use of money and time given that we are in the middle of the longest shutdown in US history. From what I can see there is no part of the trip that cant wait.
Ofc with Trump being Trump he did it in the worst possible way by waiting until the last minute. It's not like the US suddenly doesn't have money because of the shutdown, they're just not using it because the budget hasn't been agreed upon. They have zero reason to save money other than the bottomless deficit, which a trip like this is the least of your worries, while maintaining a good international relation. This is just Trump throwing a tamper tantrum because he couldn't get his way. There is nothing time sensitive about the trip. Relations arent going to go to hell because a few politicians didn't go overseas to shake a few hands. If only for the optics they shouldn't be going since Pelosi is one of the main negotiators on the gov issue. If I was sitting at home with no paycheck I'd sure as hell be pissed that one of the few people needed to end this was kissing asses and getting her ass kissed in Brussels and the ME. What the do you think happens on the diplomatic meetings? Do you think foreign officials kiss the speaker of the House's feet? Do you think we do that when they visit? Their politicians are like our politicians, they smile for photos and are kinda jerks behind closed doors. Just because they are all smiles for the photo doesn't make the plane ride and meeting afterwords fun. Maybe they will have nice food. Also, this is a pit stop in Brussels before they fly to Afghanistan for a weekend update with the troops so they can have a in person conversation with the commanders and see the troops. Its like a 22 hour flight one way. They are going to spend the majority of their time on a plane. Planes suck. They traveled to the airport by air force charter bus. Every part of this trip sounds like the mother fucking worst. We have all been in the US pol thread for years, but do people not realize that working for the goverment mostly sucks? This trip included. Ok? I still maintain that trying to have this trip at this time was a poor decision on Pelosis part. You begin ceding the high ground on workers not getting paid when you are going overseas mid negotiations. If you believe this shutdown is the biggest crisis facing America now, as you conveyed in your speech last week, then act like it. Stop skipping meetings, regardless of Trumps stupid antics, and at least look like you're trying. Hell, I'm still waiting for the comprehensive deal that gives DACA protections for the wall. Word is Trumps own aids, including possibly Kushner, arent against something like that. Get it done.
They have phones on the plane and the rest of congress flys home to their district on Thursday/Friday. The entire trip would have been done by the time congress reopened.
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On January 18 2019 08:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 08:09 On_Slaught wrote:On January 18 2019 07:55 Plansix wrote:On January 18 2019 07:43 On_Slaught wrote:On January 18 2019 07:36 Excludos wrote:On January 18 2019 06:38 On_Slaught wrote:
I actually agree with canceling the trip. It seems like a pretty unnecessary use of money and time given that we are in the middle of the longest shutdown in US history. From what I can see there is no part of the trip that cant wait.
Ofc with Trump being Trump he did it in the worst possible way by waiting until the last minute. It's not like the US suddenly doesn't have money because of the shutdown, they're just not using it because the budget hasn't been agreed upon. They have zero reason to save money other than the bottomless deficit, which a trip like this is the least of your worries, while maintaining a good international relation. This is just Trump throwing a tamper tantrum because he couldn't get his way. There is nothing time sensitive about the trip. Relations arent going to go to hell because a few politicians didn't go overseas to shake a few hands. If only for the optics they shouldn't be going since Pelosi is one of the main negotiators on the gov issue. If I was sitting at home with no paycheck I'd sure as hell be pissed that one of the few people needed to end this was kissing asses and getting her ass kissed in Brussels and the ME. What the do you think happens on the diplomatic meetings? Do you think foreign officials kiss the speaker of the House's feet? Do you think we do that when they visit? Their politicians are like our politicians, they smile for photos and are kinda jerks behind closed doors. Just because they are all smiles for the photo doesn't make the plane ride and meeting afterwords fun. Maybe they will have nice food. Also, this is a pit stop in Brussels before they fly to Afghanistan for a weekend update with the troops so they can have a in person conversation with the commanders and see the troops. Its like a 22 hour flight one way. They are going to spend the majority of their time on a plane. Planes suck. They traveled to the airport by air force charter bus. Every part of this trip sounds like the mother fucking worst. We have all been in the US pol thread for years, but do people not realize that working for the goverment mostly sucks? This trip included. Ok? I still maintain that trying to have this trip at this time was a poor decision on Pelosis part. You begin ceding the high ground on workers not getting paid when you are going overseas mid negotiations. If you believe this shutdown is the biggest crisis facing America now, as you conveyed in your speech last week, then act like it. Stop skipping meetings, regardless of Trumps stupid antics, and at least look like you're trying. Hell, I'm still waiting for the comprehensive deal that gives DACA protections for the wall. Word is Trumps own aids, including possibly Kushner, arent against something like that. Get it done. They have phones on the plane and the rest of congress flys home to their district on Thursday/Friday. The entire trip would have been done by the time congress reopened.
You just made me think about the Diablo Immortal announcement. That's never good.
As for leaving DC, I think that is a mistake as well. It's insulting to the hundreds of thousands of people struggling right now due to DCs inaction. Politically, it's also a missed opportunity. If you want to win the argument that you are on the employees side and that you arent at fault for the shutdown then stay in DC while McConnell and co scurry home.
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pelosi already canceled recess to stay in DC because of the shutdown, though.
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On January 18 2019 08:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
pelosi already canceled recess to stay in DC because of the shutdown, though.
Even more reason to not go overseas if the Senate isnt canceling recess (which I assume they arent based on P6s post). Keep showing that you are the only branch of Congress doing their jobs.
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If doing their jobs is be physical present in a building with literally zero power to move the process forward, they are doing it.
And we have now canceled all over seas trips for all cabinets members too. I bet this goes through the end of the month or until a government employee dies because they can’t afford insulin or something.
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On January 18 2019 09:23 Plansix wrote:
If doing their jobs is be physical present in a building with literally zero power to move the process forward, they are doing it.
And we have now canceled all over seas trips for all cabinets members too. I bet this goes through the end of the month or until a government employee dies because they can’t afford insulin or something.
So davos is off?
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On January 18 2019 09:27 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2019 09:23 Plansix wrote:
If doing their jobs is be physical present in a building with literally zero power to move the process forward, they are doing it.
And we have now canceled all over seas trips for all cabinets members too. I bet this goes through the end of the month or until a government employee dies because they can’t afford insulin or something. So davos is off?
Yes. They just canceled it after the press asked questions like “but you folks are totally traveling too?” Unclear if other trips for congress members are canceled, since those are commercial flights.
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EPT
