|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
I would bet actual money that the pee tape is real too. There's just too much that is being proven out.
Here is the relevant part from the Steele Dossier on Cohen in Prague:
"Speaking to a compatriot and friend on 19 October 2016, a Kremlin insider provided further details of reported clandestine meeting/s between Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP'S lawyer Michael COHEN and Kremlin representatives in August 2016. Although the communication between them had to be cryptic for security reasons, the Kremlin insider clearly indicated to his/her friend that the reported contact/s took place in Prague, Czech Republic."
"Continuing on this theme, the Kremlin insider highlighted the importance of the Russian parastatal organisation, Rossotrudnichestvo, in this contact between TRUMP campaign representative/s and Kremlin officials. Rossotrudnichestvo was being used as cover for this relationship and its office in Prague may well have been used to host the COHEN / Russian Presidential Administration (PA) meeting/s. It was considered a "plausibly deniable" vehicle for this, whilst remaining entirely under Kremlin control."
"The Kremlin insider went on to identify leading pro-PUTIN Duma figure, Konstantin KOSACHEV (Head of the Foreign Relations Committee) as an important figure in the TRUMP campaign-Kremlin liaison operation. KOSACHEV, also "plausibly deniable" being part of the Russian legislature rather than executive, had facilitated the contact in Prague and by implication, may have attended the meeting/s with COHEN there in August."
Note that the McClatchy article states the following:
"The Justice Department special counsel has evidence that Donald Trump’s personal lawyer and confidant, Michael Cohen, secretly made a late-summer trip to Prague during the 2016 presidential campaign."
The time line is consistent with Steele's original reporting that Cohen visited Prague in August of 2016.
|
Until another outlet picks up that story, I’m taking it all with a grain of salt. It all could be true, but I don’t want to get into to conspiracy theory levels of discussion based on cell phone information.
|
Steele Dossier is turning out to be a lot more accurate than anyone on the right wants to admit. If this is true, then Cohen, and Trump's whole circle, lied about Cohen being in Prague. The question then would be why. If it turns out Steele was also right about the reason Cohen was there (to discuss "deniable cash payments" for hackers attacking Clinton on behalf of Russia and "covering up these operations and Moscow's secret liaison with the Trump team"), and Mueller can find any evidence, then we have our smoking gun on collusion/conspiracy.
Edit: like P6 said tho, that is a big if. I want to see what the bigger news companies find on this. As reddit memers would say: big if true.
|
On December 28 2018 03:37 Plansix wrote:
Until another outlet picks up that story, I’m taking it all with a grain of salt. It all could be true, but I don’t want to get into to conspiracy theory levels of discussion based on cell phone information.
I think you will get your wish sooner rather than later.
Also during that period, an Eastern European intelligence agency electronically surveilled a conversation in which one Russian said that Cohen was in Prague, according to two more sources. The reporting is the opposite of thin. If the conclusion is wrong, it is a massive journalistic error.
|
On December 28 2018 03:50 Ayaz2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2018 03:37 Plansix wrote:
Until another outlet picks up that story, I’m taking it all with a grain of salt. It all could be true, but I don’t want to get into to conspiracy theory levels of discussion based on cell phone information. I think you will get your wish sooner rather than later. Also during that period, an Eastern European intelligence agency electronically surveilled a conversation in which one Russian said that Cohen was in Prague, according to two more sources. The reporting is the opposite of thin. If the conclusion is wrong, it is a massive journalistic error.
Agreed. I just want to hold off until a couple more outlets pick it up. I like to use the number of journalist willing able to fact check and put their reputation on the line picking up the story as a metric for how much brain power devote to the story.
|
Four people spoke with McClatchy on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of information shared by their foreign intelligence connections. Each obtained their information independently from foreign intelligence connections.
The cell phone evidence, the sources said, was discovered sometime after Cohen apparently made his way to the Czech Republic.
The records show that the brief activation from Cohen’s phone near Prague sent beacons that left a traceable electronic signature, said the four sources.
These lines sound strong. Christopher Steele hasn't been wrong yet and McClatchy claims 4 independent sources. I am preemptively rolling deep with McClatchy on this one. McClatchy has been a longtime journalism winner and them being wrong here would be a big break in character.
It is worth revisiting Chuck Ross and his very large claims that "DOSSIER IS UNTRUE CAUSE NO PRAGUE"
https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/17/michael-cohen-dossier-prague-lanny-davis/
Chuck Ross is in some trouble. You can watch his epistemological defenses crumble in real time.
https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC
EDIT: hmm ... I don't usually believe strong denials in this era ... but Cohen sounds pretty strong here. Maybe wait on McClatchy here for a bit.
+ Show Spoiler +https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/1078415137508417536
|
Don't forget the dossier is raw intelligence, and there is probably wrong information there as well.
I remember reading as well that Steele felt the russian were aware of his memos, and he thinks it is possible he may have been fed wrong information in the later part of his investigation. The Prague trip is one of his last memos.
So I'm a bit torn here with Cohen's denial. Might be on order from Mueller, we can not know until we know what Mueller has confirmed or what Cohen told Mueller on this...
|
Cohen tweeting that he has never been to the Czech Republic, let alone Prague, before. However, in 2017 he told the WSJ he "had not been to Prague since 2001" and David Corn at Mother Jones wrote and article in April where he said he called Cohen in 2016 and a direct quote he got was "I haven't been to Prague in 14 years. I was in Prague for one afternoon 14 years ago."
Let us not forget that Cohen is a cartoon level imbecile. He is stupid enough to lie about this even after saying the opposite to multiple reporters. His tweet is hilarious tho... #Mueller knows everything apparently.
|
Under normal circumstances, there was indeed already evidence out there that Mueller probably knew if Cohen had been in Prague or not and that Cohen would have had to admit to lying about that. So it would then already be part of the plea deal. But then again, a lot of these Trump people seem to be completely irrational. It is still up in the air if Cohen is actually fully cooperating. It is puzzling to figure out the legal strategies that all these people have. Manaford, Flynn, Cohen, they all have different strategies, somehow.
I do wonder if 'Mueller knows everything." is a shot across the bow and maybe this means that Cohen knows and told Mueller someone else went to Prague? I mean, someone in Russia did believe and report to Steele that Cohen had been in Prague in an effort to conspire with Putin to defraud the United States.
So it seems those shady rumors about Cohen are false and the mainstream is correct about it. It also wouldn't make sense that people leak stuff about Cohen having lied, because Mueller doesn't leak and Cohen doesn't have a reason to leak. So it is probably the first part of the Steele dossier that we know is not true.
Indeed, we should not forget what the Steele dossier actually is; a bunch of rumors going around about Trump within Russian intelligence circles.
|
On December 28 2018 07:49 Automedon wrote:
Under normal circumstances, there was indeed already evidence out there that Mueller probably knew if Cohen had been in Prague or not and that Cohen would have had to admit to lying about that. So it would then already be part of the plea deal. But then again, a lot of these Trump people seem to be completely irrational. It is still up in the air if Cohen is actually fully cooperating. It is puzzling to figure out the legal strategies that all these people have. Manaford, Flynn, Cohen, they all have different strategies, somehow.
I do wonder if 'Mueller knows everything." is a shot across the bow and maybe this means that Cohen knows and told Mueller someone else went to Prague? I mean, someone in Russia did believe and report to Steele that Cohen had been in Prague in an effort to conspire with Putin to defraud the United States.
So it seems those shady rumors about Cohen are false and the mainstream is correct about it. It also wouldn't make sense that people leak stuff about Cohen having lied, because Mueller doesn't leak and Cohen doesn't have a reason to leak. So it is probably the first part of the Steele dossier that we know is not true.
Indeed, we should not forget what the Steele dossier actually is; a bunch of rumors going around about Trump within Russian intelligence circles.
Am I missing something? Where has it been shown that "those shady rumors about Cohen are false?" I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm not seeing it. Cohen's statements certainly arent enough since he has lied about this very subject before.
|
We would have learned from legal documents from Mueller that Cohen lied about this. We haven't. It is not possible that Cohen lied to this about Mueller and got away with it.
|
On December 28 2018 08:06 Automedon wrote:
We would have learned from legal documents from Mueller that Cohen lied about this. We haven't. It is not possible that Cohen lied to this about Mueller and got away with it.
You are forgetting that Cohen has only been charged on the hush payments, and other matters unrelated to the Russia probe.
Mueller not having put out any indictments yet on those topics doesn't mean Cohen didn't lie or that he is getting away with it. Just that the investigation is continuing. I haven't seen any immunity deal for Cohen.
|
If Cohen says Mueller knows everything, that is conclusive proof he is withholding information.
|
That isnt proof since we dont know what Mueller knows, heavily redacted documents and all. There definitely could exist a world where this is true and Cohen is lying either to help cover up what Mueller knows or because he doesnt think that Mueller knows and he is trying to deflect to avoid additional charges.
As always, this discussion is moot, wishful thinking. Mueller knows what he knows and we'll all find out sooner or later who guessed right and who guessed wrong.
|
On December 28 2018 06:58 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +Four people spoke with McClatchy on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of information shared by their foreign intelligence connections. Each obtained their information independently from foreign intelligence connections. Show nested quote +The cell phone evidence, the sources said, was discovered sometime after Cohen apparently made his way to the Czech Republic.
The records show that the brief activation from Cohen’s phone near Prague sent beacons that left a traceable electronic signature, said the four sources. These lines sound strong. Christopher Steele hasn't been wrong yet and McClatchy claims 4 independent sources. I am preemptively rolling deep with McClatchy on this one. McClatchy has been a longtime journalism winner and them being wrong here would be a big break in character. It is worth revisiting Chuck Ross and his very large claims that "DOSSIER IS UNTRUE CAUSE NO PRAGUE" https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/17/michael-cohen-dossier-prague-lanny-davis/Chuck Ross is in some trouble. You can watch his epistemological defenses crumble in real time. https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDCEDIT: hmm ... I don't usually believe strong denials in this era ... but Cohen sounds pretty strong here. Maybe wait on McClatchy here for a bit. + Show Spoiler +https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/1078415137508417536
I can't see the tweet as I am at work. But if it's the picture of his passport that everyone posts, it means jack shit. You can get to Prague without getting stamped. Also, Cohen said something to the effect of not "walking on Czech soil". AKA, he was likely meeting the Russians/Romanians on a boat. And Mueller not dropping any paperwork related to this also means jack shit. It would be pivotal to his case of conspiracy against Trump. This detail will only be revealed when he comes for Donnie Moscow. Also, I believe I saw in the article that the foreign agencies had already shared the info with Mueller, but I wouldn't be sure that they have shared it with a single other person in our intel community or political bodies. It's just too sensitive if true.
|
We don't need this whole Steele dossier Prague angle to know Trump was conspiring with the Russians. There is plenty of actual indisputable evidence for that. This is why I am saying that one shouldn't make a big deal out of rumours of leaked info on this in not very reputable media. If someone has evidence on this and they want to leak it and they want people to believe it, they will leak it to some big newspaper who educated people know they can kind of trust when they report some news story based on two or three anonymous sources.
The thing with this item of the Steele dossier is that it is so specific, and Cohen is partially cooperating, if reality happened exactly as what the Steele report suggests, things would have unfolded differently from how they are unfolding now. This seems more like a plant to attack and discredit the Steele report at a later stage. Just a general muddying the waters attempt to discredit the Steele report.
|
On December 28 2018 10:31 Automedon wrote:
We don't need this whole Steele dossier Prague angle to know Trump was conspiring with the Russians. There is plenty of actual indisputable evidence for that. This is why I am saying that one shouldn't make a big deal out of rumours of leaked info on this in not very reputable media. If someone has evidence on this and they want to leak it and they want people to believe it, they will leak it to some big newspaper who educated people know they can kind of trust when they report some news story based on two or three anonymous sources.
The thing with this item of the Steele dossier is that it is so specific, and Cohen is partially cooperating, if reality happened exactly as what the Steele report suggests, things would have unfolded differently from how they are unfolding now. This seems more like a plant to attack and discredit the Steele report at a later stage. Just a general muddying the waters attempt to discredit the Steele report.
I love you. It's so rare to hear others admit that there is enough publicly available information to be certain that "collusion" happened. I have been saying this for months. The public sphere is not a court of law. If you read about this stuff to any degree (and I do religiously. I run a Facebook page that is increasingly devoted to the insanely obviously connections), you already know that this conspiracy 100% happened, and if you're anything like me, you know enough to draw any unconvinced moron a verbal picture that perfectly connects the dots. Okay, maybe not perfectly. I'm still not clear on why the blockade of Qatar happened, since they were clearly involved. My guess on that is that they refused to bail out Kushner when he asked for money for 666 5th Ave. But anyway, yes. A million times yes.
|
Maybe Cohen met with the Russians as Steele said, but not in Prague? The location of the meeting isn't necessary for the collusion theory to work, just the meeting itself.
|
On December 28 2018 12:25 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Maybe Cohen met with the Russians as Steele said, but not in Prague? The location of the meeting isn't necessary for the collusion theory to work, just the meeting itself.
If they were trying to feed misinformation, it would be best to make some things true, but slightly wrong to mess up follow up investigations. Also a good way to muddy the water.
|
On December 28 2018 03:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2018 02:58 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On December 28 2018 02:46 JimmiC wrote:
The craziest thing about the government shutdown about the wall is from everything I have read it would be nearly impossible to get built anyway at least not for a long time because of individual land owners rights. And most land owners do not want a giant wall on their property and with a mainly conservative supreme court set to protect individual rights I'm not sure how they force it on them. And if they do it will open up a whole can of worms that I'm sure land owner in the USA do not want opened. They could invoke imminent domain, pay the people, and seize the land. If the US government wants something, there's very little you can do to stop them, as a citizen. Imminent domain can still be tied up in litigation for years with the sole purpose of outlasting the political will to take the land. And given how Trump administration has handled everything else, I bet they screw up the process of imminent domain somehow. This is why I always supported the wall. There was nothing I wanted more than the Republicans to have to carry this 32 billion dollar pile of shit built on seizing property rights from red state voters. Because no one on the border states wants this wall, because they know how the border works.
Wasn't it a random Texan guy who created that immortal quote 'If you build a wall 40 foot high, all you do is create a market for ladders 50 feet tall'?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
