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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1009

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
December 28 2018 14:16 GMT
#20161
On December 28 2018 18:25 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2018 03:13 Plansix wrote:
On December 28 2018 02:58 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On December 28 2018 02:46 JimmiC wrote:
The craziest thing about the government shutdown about the wall is from everything I have read it would be nearly impossible to get built anyway at least not for a long time because of individual land owners rights. And most land owners do not want a giant wall on their property and with a mainly conservative supreme court set to protect individual rights I'm not sure how they force it on them. And if they do it will open up a whole can of worms that I'm sure land owner in the USA do not want opened.

They could invoke imminent domain, pay the people, and seize the land. If the US government wants something, there's very little you can do to stop them, as a citizen.

Imminent domain can still be tied up in litigation for years with the sole purpose of outlasting the political will to take the land. And given how Trump administration has handled everything else, I bet they screw up the process of imminent domain somehow.

This is why I always supported the wall. There was nothing I wanted more than the Republicans to have to carry this 32 billion dollar pile of shit built on seizing property rights from red state voters. Because no one on the border states wants this wall, because they know how the border works.


Wasn't it a random Texan guy who created that immortal quote 'If you build a wall 40 foot high, all you do is create a market for ladders 50 feet tall'?



Even more apt: “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._L._Mencken
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15684 Posts
December 28 2018 20:01 GMT
#20162
Got some good ole fashioned Oregon news for you guys. This was a pleasure to read.



Alanna Partin, the Sweet Home woman arrested in downtown Corvallis in November after she allegedly reached for a handgun during a traffic stop, appears to be mounting a sovereign citizen defense, a legal tactic that denies the validity of the U.S. judicial system.

Partin, 38, was in Benton County Circuit Court on Thursday morning for a status check in her case. She is charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm, interfering with a peace officer and failure to carry or present a driver’s license. The firearms charge carries a potential five-year sentence.

As Judge Locke Williams briskly worked through a number of scheduling matters with prosecutors and defense attorneys in other cases, Partin stood at the back of the courtroom, leaning against the wall with her arms crossed.


When her name was called, she approached the low wooden bar that separates the gallery from the attorneys’ tables and the judge’s bench but refused to cross it. Instead, she demanded that Williams produce documents establishing his authority.

“I reserve all rights,” Partin said.

“I need to make sure this court is in order before I cross the bar.”

After sparring over various legal issues with the judge, Partin announced “We’re done here” and turned to leave the courtroom, but Williams stopped her in her tracks.

“If you walk out of that door, you will be held in contempt of court,” he warned her. “You will be held in jail until trial.”

With a security officer and a sheriff’s deputy waiting to take her into custody, Partin turned around and resumed her running argument with the judge. At one point she called Williams “a vessel of commerce” and demanded that the proceedings be conducted in accordance with the Uniform Commercial Code, which governs business transactions.

That approach is one of the hallmarks of the so-called sovereign citizen movement, a loosely organized network of people who insist they are not subject to most U.S. laws. That claim is based in part on the notion that the 14th Amendment to the Constitution created an inferior form of citizenship that subjected most Americans to commercial statutes rather than Constitutional law.

Williams was having none of it.

“This court does not recognize the legal gibberish you are putting forward,” the judge told Partin.

“My advice to you would be to be represented by an attorney. I believe it would be a grievous error for you to try to go forward with these legal theories that have no basis in law.”

Partin declined the offer of a court-appointed defense attorney to represent her but did agree to allow one to advise her, as long as it was strictly on her own terms. Williams appointed Clark Willes, a Corvallis defense attorney, to assist in Partin’s defense.

According to the initial incident report of her arrest, Partin was pulled over by a Benton County sheriff’s deputy at 1:48 a.m. Nov. 7 on Northwest Third Street near Van Buren Avenue for equipment violations.

Partin allegedly refused to show a driver’s license or get out of her vehicle when told she was under arrest. Instead, according to the incident report, she reached for a loaded .357-caliber revolver, after which a deputy shocked her with a stun gun and took her into custody.


The report goes on to state that Partin also had an AR-15 assault rifle with no serial number. Both firearms were seized by law enforcement.

In a 12-page document filed with the court on Dec. 21, Partin claims that her rights were violated during her arrest by members of the Benton County Sheriff’s Office and Corvallis Police Department, whom she refers to as “privateers.”

She denies that she ever drew a gun during the incident and accuses the officers of threats, assault, brandishing a deadly weapon and showing “their intent to murder by informing claimant that the ‘slack was out of (the) trigger and ready to fire upon you had u not been tazed by another officer.’”

In the document, Partin demands a change of venue to federal court unless the case against her in state court is discharged. She also demands the immediate return of her guns, along with a payment of $1,500 per firearm per day to compensate for loss of use.

If her demands are not met, Partin says, she is entitled to compensation “of not less than 100 Trillion dollars paid in LAWFUL Currency pursuant to 12 USC 411.”

Those issues were not addressed during Thursday’s hearing.

Partin’s next scheduled court appearance is a preliminary hearing set for 8:30 a.m. on Jan. 28.



https://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/partin-claims-sovereign-citizen-status-in-benton-court/article_332407b0-03d6-5278-92ed-6bf05b5a1440.html?fbclid=IwAR22nNdSjEr_f5Ckc-O7zjdXH3ZNQNfTXyW1QXaEnp7rLl49Dzu9ZxNzOdo

User was temp banned for this post.
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3393 Posts
December 28 2018 20:30 GMT
#20163
That is one crazy bitch.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13924 Posts
December 28 2018 21:09 GMT
#20164
I love the 100 trillion dollars in lawful currency part. If you had any doubt she was completly detached from reality thats where you got your confermation.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35142 Posts
December 28 2018 22:46 GMT
#20165
You can tell she's white without looking at the story because otherwise she'd be dead.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
December 29 2018 00:00 GMT
#20166
On December 29 2018 07:46 Gahlo wrote:
You can tell she's white without looking at the story because otherwise she'd be dead.


Fucking hell yeah. Reading that story I immediately thought 'black woman's getting shot in those circumstances'.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 29 2018 01:10 GMT
#20167
Lawful currency, what is this weak shit? Demand troy ounces of gold like a true sovereign citizen! And the execution of the officers that violated your sovereign rights.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17980 Posts
December 29 2018 11:10 GMT
#20168
On December 28 2018 03:18 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2018 03:10 ticklishmusic wrote:
On December 28 2018 02:56 Plansix wrote:
So my brother tried to buy a refrigerator and TV after Christmas and found it to be a struggle to buy either that are not “Smart” and that didn’t have wifi. He is now diving into sections of the internet that discuss refrigerators that can have the smart features disabled(aka, physically removing them) without impacting the performance of the refrigerator. None of this will assure that the refrigerator he wants to buy will fit his house. He is now texting me to make sure that NFC isn’t the same as wifi and how to make sure his TV doesn’t connect to his router. My brother fixes cars and hates software based tech, but here we are.

We live in the dumbest future where the “Smart” products are really just low key spying devices we can’t avoid. And congress has been so asleep at the switch there is no hope of meaningful regulations any time soon. But our inability to escape of "smart" products or buy a smart phone without a tracking device in it might be the best argument that the free market does not solve all problems.


is it really that hard? i bought fridge, washer + dryer from best buy this summer. fridge was about 2k, washer and dryer were about 1.6k combined. they're the current generation and none are smart devices, though they have all sorts of fancy settings and features which i'll never use.

fridges aren't too hard to fit, unless you have some weird custom enclosure for a very special fridge. most come in fairly standard widths with a couple inch variance, then its either counter depth or standard depth. then you have your fancy built in ones (viking, etc.).

on the other hand, i have like 4 amazon alexa devices. they're quite convenient for music/ radio, smart lights and a few other things, and definitely reveal how consumers (even somewhat informed ones) are willing to sacrifice privacy for convenience. a couple were gifts, one came with my appliance purchases, one i got as a $1 deal from amazon music. i guess that deal kinda shows you how willing amazon is to give away their devices to get your data. oh well.


I told him to shop around for a fridge at other stores. My bet is that the store he went to carries a bunch of high end smart devices because its rich people country. The fridge will go in a pocket in the kitchen(daughter of a contractor) that can be adjusted if necessary, but it is a fucking chore. He almost had to enlist my wife to help him last time around, so he is avoiding doing it again.

I am not sure about the TV. He just doesn't want it connecting to the wifi or trying to.

I will never own a smart speaker. I have a proper radio that is tuned into NPR and a bunch of local music sections. I want to get a HD antenna and get some local TV stations too, just to be that guy.

Why does he not want his TV to connect to WiFi? Does he not want Netflix? It's miles better than all the package deals I've seen, and infinitely better than the free tv channels. Not that that is saying much. I'm getting a TV now and it's essentially the only thing I want: wifi connection. I assume by default I can connect a Nintendo Switch to it, and I don't give a shit about satellite or anything else. I might get a Chromecast so I can watch twitch streams on it, but once again, need WiFi (or some form of ethernet connection.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21665 Posts
December 29 2018 11:18 GMT
#20169
On December 29 2018 20:10 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2018 03:18 Plansix wrote:
On December 28 2018 03:10 ticklishmusic wrote:
On December 28 2018 02:56 Plansix wrote:
So my brother tried to buy a refrigerator and TV after Christmas and found it to be a struggle to buy either that are not “Smart” and that didn’t have wifi. He is now diving into sections of the internet that discuss refrigerators that can have the smart features disabled(aka, physically removing them) without impacting the performance of the refrigerator. None of this will assure that the refrigerator he wants to buy will fit his house. He is now texting me to make sure that NFC isn’t the same as wifi and how to make sure his TV doesn’t connect to his router. My brother fixes cars and hates software based tech, but here we are.

We live in the dumbest future where the “Smart” products are really just low key spying devices we can’t avoid. And congress has been so asleep at the switch there is no hope of meaningful regulations any time soon. But our inability to escape of "smart" products or buy a smart phone without a tracking device in it might be the best argument that the free market does not solve all problems.


is it really that hard? i bought fridge, washer + dryer from best buy this summer. fridge was about 2k, washer and dryer were about 1.6k combined. they're the current generation and none are smart devices, though they have all sorts of fancy settings and features which i'll never use.

fridges aren't too hard to fit, unless you have some weird custom enclosure for a very special fridge. most come in fairly standard widths with a couple inch variance, then its either counter depth or standard depth. then you have your fancy built in ones (viking, etc.).

on the other hand, i have like 4 amazon alexa devices. they're quite convenient for music/ radio, smart lights and a few other things, and definitely reveal how consumers (even somewhat informed ones) are willing to sacrifice privacy for convenience. a couple were gifts, one came with my appliance purchases, one i got as a $1 deal from amazon music. i guess that deal kinda shows you how willing amazon is to give away their devices to get your data. oh well.


I told him to shop around for a fridge at other stores. My bet is that the store he went to carries a bunch of high end smart devices because its rich people country. The fridge will go in a pocket in the kitchen(daughter of a contractor) that can be adjusted if necessary, but it is a fucking chore. He almost had to enlist my wife to help him last time around, so he is avoiding doing it again.

I am not sure about the TV. He just doesn't want it connecting to the wifi or trying to.

I will never own a smart speaker. I have a proper radio that is tuned into NPR and a bunch of local music sections. I want to get a HD antenna and get some local TV stations too, just to be that guy.

Why does he not want his TV to connect to WiFi? Does he not want Netflix? It's miles better than all the package deals I've seen, and infinitely better than the free tv channels. Not that that is saying much. I'm getting a TV now and it's essentially the only thing I want: wifi connection. I assume by default I can connect a Nintendo Switch to it, and I don't give a shit about satellite or anything else. I might get a Chromecast so I can watch twitch streams on it, but once again, need WiFi (or some form of ethernet connection.
Considering the tone of the post I am guessing a fear of spyware.

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 29 2018 12:19 GMT
#20170
On December 29 2018 20:10 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2018 03:18 Plansix wrote:
On December 28 2018 03:10 ticklishmusic wrote:
On December 28 2018 02:56 Plansix wrote:
So my brother tried to buy a refrigerator and TV after Christmas and found it to be a struggle to buy either that are not “Smart” and that didn’t have wifi. He is now diving into sections of the internet that discuss refrigerators that can have the smart features disabled(aka, physically removing them) without impacting the performance of the refrigerator. None of this will assure that the refrigerator he wants to buy will fit his house. He is now texting me to make sure that NFC isn’t the same as wifi and how to make sure his TV doesn’t connect to his router. My brother fixes cars and hates software based tech, but here we are.

We live in the dumbest future where the “Smart” products are really just low key spying devices we can’t avoid. And congress has been so asleep at the switch there is no hope of meaningful regulations any time soon. But our inability to escape of "smart" products or buy a smart phone without a tracking device in it might be the best argument that the free market does not solve all problems.


is it really that hard? i bought fridge, washer + dryer from best buy this summer. fridge was about 2k, washer and dryer were about 1.6k combined. they're the current generation and none are smart devices, though they have all sorts of fancy settings and features which i'll never use.

fridges aren't too hard to fit, unless you have some weird custom enclosure for a very special fridge. most come in fairly standard widths with a couple inch variance, then its either counter depth or standard depth. then you have your fancy built in ones (viking, etc.).

on the other hand, i have like 4 amazon alexa devices. they're quite convenient for music/ radio, smart lights and a few other things, and definitely reveal how consumers (even somewhat informed ones) are willing to sacrifice privacy for convenience. a couple were gifts, one came with my appliance purchases, one i got as a $1 deal from amazon music. i guess that deal kinda shows you how willing amazon is to give away their devices to get your data. oh well.


I told him to shop around for a fridge at other stores. My bet is that the store he went to carries a bunch of high end smart devices because its rich people country. The fridge will go in a pocket in the kitchen(daughter of a contractor) that can be adjusted if necessary, but it is a fucking chore. He almost had to enlist my wife to help him last time around, so he is avoiding doing it again.

I am not sure about the TV. He just doesn't want it connecting to the wifi or trying to.

I will never own a smart speaker. I have a proper radio that is tuned into NPR and a bunch of local music sections. I want to get a HD antenna and get some local TV stations too, just to be that guy.

Why does he not want his TV to connect to WiFi? Does he not want Netflix? It's miles better than all the package deals I've seen, and infinitely better than the free tv channels. Not that that is saying much. I'm getting a TV now and it's essentially the only thing I want: wifi connection. I assume by default I can connect a Nintendo Switch to it, and I don't give a shit about satellite or anything else. I might get a Chromecast so I can watch twitch streams on it, but once again, need WiFi (or some form of ethernet connection.

He has an Apple TV and a Blue ray player. There is no reason to have a smart TV. And he isn’t interested in letter Sony or Samsung low key track what TV he watches.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-29 12:48:20
December 29 2018 12:40 GMT
#20171
On December 29 2018 21:19 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2018 20:10 Acrofales wrote:
On December 28 2018 03:18 Plansix wrote:
On December 28 2018 03:10 ticklishmusic wrote:
On December 28 2018 02:56 Plansix wrote:
So my brother tried to buy a refrigerator and TV after Christmas and found it to be a struggle to buy either that are not “Smart” and that didn’t have wifi. He is now diving into sections of the internet that discuss refrigerators that can have the smart features disabled(aka, physically removing them) without impacting the performance of the refrigerator. None of this will assure that the refrigerator he wants to buy will fit his house. He is now texting me to make sure that NFC isn’t the same as wifi and how to make sure his TV doesn’t connect to his router. My brother fixes cars and hates software based tech, but here we are.

We live in the dumbest future where the “Smart” products are really just low key spying devices we can’t avoid. And congress has been so asleep at the switch there is no hope of meaningful regulations any time soon. But our inability to escape of "smart" products or buy a smart phone without a tracking device in it might be the best argument that the free market does not solve all problems.


is it really that hard? i bought fridge, washer + dryer from best buy this summer. fridge was about 2k, washer and dryer were about 1.6k combined. they're the current generation and none are smart devices, though they have all sorts of fancy settings and features which i'll never use.

fridges aren't too hard to fit, unless you have some weird custom enclosure for a very special fridge. most come in fairly standard widths with a couple inch variance, then its either counter depth or standard depth. then you have your fancy built in ones (viking, etc.).

on the other hand, i have like 4 amazon alexa devices. they're quite convenient for music/ radio, smart lights and a few other things, and definitely reveal how consumers (even somewhat informed ones) are willing to sacrifice privacy for convenience. a couple were gifts, one came with my appliance purchases, one i got as a $1 deal from amazon music. i guess that deal kinda shows you how willing amazon is to give away their devices to get your data. oh well.


I told him to shop around for a fridge at other stores. My bet is that the store he went to carries a bunch of high end smart devices because its rich people country. The fridge will go in a pocket in the kitchen(daughter of a contractor) that can be adjusted if necessary, but it is a fucking chore. He almost had to enlist my wife to help him last time around, so he is avoiding doing it again.

I am not sure about the TV. He just doesn't want it connecting to the wifi or trying to.

I will never own a smart speaker. I have a proper radio that is tuned into NPR and a bunch of local music sections. I want to get a HD antenna and get some local TV stations too, just to be that guy.

Why does he not want his TV to connect to WiFi? Does he not want Netflix? It's miles better than all the package deals I've seen, and infinitely better than the free tv channels. Not that that is saying much. I'm getting a TV now and it's essentially the only thing I want: wifi connection. I assume by default I can connect a Nintendo Switch to it, and I don't give a shit about satellite or anything else. I might get a Chromecast so I can watch twitch streams on it, but once again, need WiFi (or some form of ethernet connection.

He has an Apple TV and a Blue ray player. There is no reason to have a smart TV. And he isn’t interested in letter Sony or Samsung low key track what TV he watches.


You might wanna let your brother know that apple tv does the exact same thing.

In fact, smart tvs give you at least the option to opt out of everything, whereas apple always ad tracks. You can only opt out of targeted ads amongst other things.

Which isn't surprising considering it's the most shady, exploitative company the world has ever seen.

edit: point being, yeah there might be no reason to buy a smart tv - but there's also no reason against it, because the "letting sony low key know what you watch" is first of all blatantly wrong because sony doesn't give a shit what you're watching - it's Samba TV, an app that usually comes with a smart tv and is opt in. ACR (automated content recognition) is something that you can also turn off on a smart tv - not on an apple device though, there it's always on.

So, yes, a smart tv can track stuff, if you enable it. But at that point it's on you.
On track to MA1950A.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 29 2018 13:13 GMT
#20172
The point for him and myself is to be aware of who is tracking his shit and limit the number of companies he lets do it. And he and I don’t really trust the “opt-out” features in 2018. Given what I’ve seen from tech companies, I would not be shocked if some were just ignoring that and knowing there won’t be any consequences for lying to customers.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-29 16:48:07
December 29 2018 14:01 GMT
#20173
Mod Edit: Reddit Copy/Paste
+ Show Spoiler +
Shamelessly stolen from Reddit. Remarkable writeup. Also, as with the Trump/Russia conspiracy we already know took place, I have little doubt that Fox News as an organization is an agent of the Russian government at this point.

Trump, Murdoch, Lauder, Giuliani, and Russia: The Tangled Web

Roy Cohn: US Political Nexus

In the 1980‘s Ron Lauder (1), Rupert Murdoch (2), and Donald Trump (3) shared the same mob-connected lawyer, Roy Cohn. As a matter of fact Roy Cohn even introduced Roger Stone to Trump in 1979 (3).

Stone appeared on East 68th Street to find Cohn, just awakened, in his robe, sitting with one of his clients, Mob boss “Fat Tony” Salerno, of the Genovese crime family. “In front of [Roy] was a slab of cream cheese and three burnt slices of bacon,” Stone remembered. “He ate the cream cheese with his pointing finger. He listened to my pitch and said, ‘You need to see Donald Trump. I will get you in, but then you are on your own.’ ”

Shortly after, Stone founded Black Manafort & Stone with Paul Manafort and Charlie Black and took on Donald Trump as their first client (3). Stone later introduced Trump to Manafort in 1988 at the Republican National Committee (4).

http://www.maryellenmark.com/text/magazines/vanity fair/925E-000-007.html

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/06/19/how-roy-cohn-helped-rupert-murdoch-2/

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/donald-trump-roy-cohn-relationship

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/a-timeline-of-paul-manaforts-relationship-with-the-trump-world.html

Enter Russia

In 1986, Russia’s ambassador to the US, Yuri Dubinin, and Donald Trump dined at a luncheon hosted by the Lauders. The following year Dubinin invited Trump to what would become Trump’s first of many trips to Russia. There Trump toured possible locations for a potential Trump Tower in Moscow (1). By 1989 the Lauders made their own ventures into Russia, opening up their first Estee Lauder boutique in Moscow, just blocks from the Red Square (2).

That same year Ron Lauder joined forces with Arthur Finkelstein and Roger Ailes to run for New York mayor against Rudy Giuliani. When Lauder lost the primary to Giuliani, Ailes jumped shipped and joined Giuliani’s team. Ultimately, however, Giuliani lost the election (3), though he'd go on to attain the mayorship in 1993.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-11-16/news/mn-2346_1_estee-lauder-shop

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/02/nyregion/president-s-brother-is-promoting-a-giuliani-lauder-alliance.html

The Fall of Boris Berezovsky and Rise of Roman Abramovich

Mob-connected Boris Berezovsky benefitted handsomely from the Soviet Union’s march away from communism, becoming one of Russia’s first billionaires through his car dealership company, Logovaz, founded in 1989 (1). In 1995 the Russian presidency, helmed by Boris Yeltsin, was at risk of falling back into the hands of the Communists, so Yeltsin sought assistance from those who benefited most from his policies.

[Yelstin] was desperately in need of funds, and turned to men such as [Roman] Abramovich and Berezovsky, whom he invited to participate in the so-called "loans for shares" scheme in return for financial backing. (2)

For Berezovsky and his protege, Abramovich, that was with Sibneft, which they acquired in 1995. In exchanged for being brought into the loans for shares program, Abramovich was forced to pay Berezovsky $1 billion across 6 years for “kryshna”, or mafia protection (3).

In January 1996, during the Davos World Economic Forum, Berezovsky returned the favor and formed the Davos Pact with other newly minted Russia oligarchs, including Mikhail Fridman and Petr Aven of Alfabank, to bankroll Yeltsin's campaign (4). In the end, though legally capped at $3 million, estimates range that Yeltsin’s campaign spent between $100-$500 million (5). They also brought in many America politicos to assist as well, including George Gorton, Richard Dresner, Joe Shumate (6), and Roger Stone-protege Michael Caputo (7).

Soon after Yeltsin’s victory, Ron Lauder traveled to Moscow to celebrate the opening of another boutique on Red Square. A lavish party was thrown in Lauder’s honor, even attended by Yeltsin himself. And the oligarch who threw the party - Boris Berezovsky (1). At some point Berezovsky would also team up with Rupert Murdoch to form Logovaz News Corporation that invested in Russia media, including Nashe Radio (8).

During Putin’s ascension toward power he found critics in a number of oligarchs that previously supported Yeltsin, including Berezovsky, who criticized Putin’s lean toward authoritarianism. In 2000 Putin succeeded Yeltsin and by the end of the year Berezovsky sought political asylum in London. In 2013 he died a mysterious death (4). Abramovich, however, stayed loyal to Putin and on February 17, 2000 made a deal with Russian oligarch and head of RusAl, Oleg Deripaska, to end the aluminum wars and turn Abramovich from merely rich to a full blown oligarch himself (9).

https://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/1996/1230/5815090a.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/08/russia.football

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich#Acquisition_of_Sibneft,_aluminium_wars,_and_loans-for-shares

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin_presidential_campaign,_1996

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/07/film.russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Caputo

https://www.news24.com/xArchive/Archive/Magnate-tycoon-own-airwaves-20010705

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/jul/06/russia.football

Ron Lauder

In 1995 Ron Lauder pushed Bibi Netanyahu to hire past political operative Arthur Finkelstein for Netanyahu’s first run for Prime Minister of Israel (1). Finkelstein also did work for the Trump Organization (2) and, according to Glenn Simpson’s congressional testimony, worked with Roger Stone and Paul Manafort in Ukraine (3).

...Finkelstein worked with Stone and Manafort in Ukraine in or around 2005, 2006, for the same cast of bad guys.

Finkelstein's longtime business associate and adviser to Netanyahu, George Birnbaum, would later reach out to Paul Manafort's deputy, Rick Gates, when Gates joined Trump's campaign, and presented a plan for a campaign of social media manipulation run by Israeli intelligence officers through Psy-Group, owned by Joel Zamel (25). Later Erik Prince would arrange for Joel Zamel to meet with George Nader and Don Jr. to discuss Zamel's proposal. Nader ultimately paid $2 million dollars for the work (26).

Ron Lauder and Netanyahu would become close and in 1998, Lauder, Netanyahu, and George Nader joined forces in ultimately failed negotiations between Israel and Syria (4). In the 2000's, after spending a year a Prague prison for pedophilia, Nader moved to the UAE and quickly rebuilt his political connections, becoming trusted emissary to the crown princes of both Saudi Arabia (MBS) and the UAE (MBZ). Soon after, Erik Prince of Blackwater hired Nader as a "business development consultant" from March 2004 - Nov 2008 (33) to acquire security contracts with Iraq (30). In 2010, as Blackwater struggled under scandal, Prince moved to the UAE himself and founded another private security firm, r2, directly financed my MBZ. R2 was tasked with securing a number of Middle East power plants yet to be built (31).

In Dec 2016 after a secret meeting with MBZ at Trump Tower that included Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner, and Michael Flynn (which was at the center of the unmasking controversy), Prince discussed with Nader and MBZ a back-channel to Russia. At the time Nader was promoting a plan to destabilize Iran using private security contractors (26). A month later Nader and MBZ introduced Prince to the head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund in Seychelles (32), a meeting currently under investigation by the FBI special counsel. Nader is cooperating with Mueller.

In 2000, Allen Roth, Lauder’s longtime aide who helped in his 1989 mayoral run, founded One Jerusalem and later its offshoot, Secure America Now. Ron Lauder and Robert Mercer are top donors to Secure America Now and Devon Gaffney Cross, on the board of One Jerusalem (6), is sister to Michael Flynn associate Frank Gaffney of the Center for Security Policy (7). One Jerusalem is currently under investigation for a corruption scheme involving a Netanyahu aide (5).

In an email to George Nader, Elliott Broidy claims Secure America Now was one of the companies he worked with (8). In 2003, Elliott Broidy bribed the New York State pension into investing in a private equity firm he founded to invest in Israel (9). In 2005 Broidy started a private security contractor business, Circinus, that recently acquired a $200 million contract with the UAE (28), arranged by George Nader a(29). Broidy is currently the subject of a criminal probe in Ukraine for working with a US sanctioned Russian bank, VTB, in 2014 (27).

In 1997 Ron Lauder teamed up with a Vadim Rabinovich on a media venture into Ukraine (10).

American Government officials acknowledged that embassy officials had told Mr. Lauder and other company officials about Mr. Rabinovich's conviction and his links to Grigory Loutchansky, a Russian whose company, Nordex, is suspected of having ties to criminal organizations.

In 2003 the Lauder Institute teamed up with Russia Oligarch Michael Fridman and German Khan’s Alfabank to form the “Excellence in Foreign Investement in Russia” award, with Leonard Lauder and Richard Burt on the board (11). Richard Burt, working for Diligence, had previously worked as a lobbyist for Oleg Deripaska, Deripaska’s RusAl, and Gazprom, and was once implicated in a scam to steal information from an Alfabank competitor (12)(13). Diligence also happens to be owned by Deripaska's London-based business partner, Nathanial Rothschild (23). Burt, along with Paul Manfort and George Papadopoulos, edited Trump’s first speech on foreign policy, where Trump promised Russia a great deal (14).

In 2004 Ron Lauder sold shares of Channel-9 and Channel-10 to Russian Oligarch Lev Leviev, a close associate of Roman Abramovich (19). Lev Leviev would later do business with Jared Kushner (22). In 2013 Lauder negotiated selling a major stake in Channel-10 to Len Blavatnik (18), a Russia oligarch currently under investigation by Mueller (20). And here is Lauder hanging out with Roman Abramovich in 2018 (21).

In November 2014 Ron Lauder met with Alfa-bank founders Mikhail Fridman and German Khan in London (15). German Khan’s son-in-law pled guilty for lying to Mueller about his work with Paul Manafort.

On March 31st, Papdopoulos told Trump he can “arrange a meeting between Trump and Putin” (16). On April 19 2016, Ron Lauder personally met with Putin (17).

More recently, in October 2018 Trump dispatched Ron Lauder to met with the president of Palenstine behind Jared Kushner's back to reinstate peace talks (24).

Lauder had proposed running a back channel between the PA leader and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but the initiative ultimately fizzled.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/arthur-finkelstein-little-known-strategist-who-changed-the-course-of-israel-s-history-dies-aged-72-1.443165

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_J._Finkelstein

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:House-Intel-Glenn-Simpson-Transcript.pdf/113

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-russia-mueller-probe-the-israel-connections-1.6116639

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-netanyahu-aide-received-money-from-group-tied-to-billionaire-lauder-report/

http://powerbase.info/index.php/Devon_Cross

https://www.newsweek.com/ezra-cohen-watnick-donald-trump-devin-nunes-russia-barack-obama-wiretap-susan-583904

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/21/us/politics/george-nader-elliott-broidy-uae-saudi-arabia-white-house-influence.html

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5040615

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/05/world/a-cosmetics-heir-s-joint-venture-is-tainted-by-ukrainian-s-past.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20060927104324/https://alfabank.com/media/news/2006/06/20/

https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/haley-barbour-iran-nuclear-program-bgr_n_1375102.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/us/politics/transcript-trump-foreign-policy.html

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/russian-philanthropists-bound-for-london-1.61095

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/30/george-papadopoulos-timeline-trump-campaign-adviser-russia-links

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/top-jewish-leader-lauder-thanks-putin-for-fighting-anti-semitism-1.5436695

https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-jewish-billionaire-len-blavatnik-may-buy-control-of-ch-10-1.5289898

https://www.haaretz.com/1.4746237

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclusive-special-counsel-probing-donations-foreign-connections-trump/story?id=55054482

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/241425

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/24/jared-kushner-new-york-russia-money-laundering

https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/lauder-said-to-meet-abbas-on-trumps-behalf-in-bid-to-jump-start-peace-talks/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/us/politics/rick-gates-psy-group-trump.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/us/politics/trump-jr-saudi-uae-nader-prince-zamel.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/trump-donor-ukraine-criminal-probe-180307124432781.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/elliott-broidy-history-bribery-pro-israel-advocacy-180404120351079.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/21/us/politics/george-nader-elliott-broidy-uae-saudi-arabia-white-house-influence.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-trump-saudi-uae-princes-20180521-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/world/middleeast/15prince.html

https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/13/politics/susan-rice-house-investigators-unmasked-trump-officials/index.html

https://littlesis.org/relationships/1457568

Rupert Murdoch and wife Wendi Deng

In the 90‘s Murdoch ventured into Russia media with mob-linked Boris Berezovsky of Logovaz. The two formed a joint venture, Logovaz News Corp, that invested in a number of Russian media properties, including Nashe Radio (1). Then in 2002 Murdoch entered into the Russian billboard industry (2):

By all accounts, the unexpected break for Murdoch in the Russian ad market came in 2002 after the assassination of Vladimir Kanevsky, then the billboard king of Moscow. In February of that year, at an intersection near the Kremlin, a man in a black ski cap walked up to Kanevsky's car and pumped five rounds into his head and chest.

Murdoch's Russia ventures have been investigated for bribery. This was all in the background when, in 1999, Rupert Murdoch married Wendi Deng whom he and the FBI suspect of being a spy (3).

Since their divorce, Murdoch has been telling anybody who would listen that Wendi is a Chinese spy--and had been throughout the marriage.

In 2006, when Jared Kushner bought the Observer, Murdoch became his close mentor (4).

When Jared Kushner took over the New York Observer in mid-2006 (around the time he met Ivanka Trump, whom he would marry in 2009) he turned to Murdoch for counsel.

Jared and Ivanka were known to double-date with Murdoch and his ex-wife Wendi Deng, and even after Murdoch’s split with Deng, the two women and the two men remained close.

Kushner then directed the Observer erase such stories, and more (4).

The erasures first occurred under the leadership of then-editor-in-chief Elizabeth Spiers, who told The Post she was unaware of the erasure but said Kushner previously requested over the phone she couch stories about media mogul Rupert Murdoch, his mentor.

In 2007 Wendi Deng, introduced Ivanka Trump to the wife of Roman Abramovich, Dasha Zhukova (5). In 2010, Jared Kushner's brother, Joshua, invested in a joint venture founded by Zhukova and Deng, Arsty.net (6). Then in 2014 Zhukova invited Deng, Ivanka, and Kushner to Moscow where they partied with Abramovich, Viktor Vekselberg, Len Blavatnik, and Alfa-bank execs, including the son-in-law of Sergei Lavrov (7).

A week before inauguartion Ivanka Trump hosted a secret dinner at the home of Wendi Deng where she collected advice from a series of powerful business women (8). The two then hung out during Trump's inauguaration (9).

In 2010, Israel granted oil rights in Syria to Rupert Murdoch and Lord Jacob Rothschild, both of Genie Energy (10). Jacob also sits on the international advisory board to Blackstone Group (13), who's founder, Steve Schwarzman, sat on the board of the Russian Direct Investment Fund (14). Jacob's brother, Nathaniel, is also business partners with Oleg Deripaska, and owns Diligence, which employed Richard Burt to lobby on behalf of Deripska, RusAl, and Gazprom (11).

Richard Burt was John McCains top policy adviser in 2000 and an adviser to McCain during McCain's 2008 run for the presidency. Nathanial, Burt's employer, ended up hosting a dinner for John McCain that gained much criticism at the time (11):

...one conservative watchdog group in the US went after McCain half a year ago for facilitating a fundraiser at the home of Nat Rothschild, the Deripaska associate at the center of the Osborne-Mandelson row. Foreign donations, even "in-kind" contributions such as assistance raising money, are prohibited under American election law.

In 2018 Ron Lauder awarded the entire Rothschild family the Herzl Award (12).

https://www.news24.com/xArchive/Archive/Magnate-tycoon-own-airwaves-20010705

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2085878,00.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/16/fbi-warned-jared-kushner-wendi-deng-could-use-friendship-push/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/16/donald-trump-rupert-murdoch-friendship-fox-news

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/a12106454/who-is-dasha-zhukova/

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a18929591/wendi-murdoch-interview-artsy/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-18/billionaire-ally-of-putin-socialized-with-kushner-ivanka-trump

http://fortune.com/2017/01/13/ivanka-trump-dinner-murdoch/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4139016/Ivanka-poses-Wendi-Deng-night-inauguration.html

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/02/israel-grants-oil-rights-in-syria-to-murdoch-and-rothschild/

https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/

http://thejewishvoice.com/2018/10/10/ron-lauder-present-theodor-herzl-award-rothschild-family-nyc/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Rothschild,_4th_Baron_Rothschild

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-investment-fund-connected-to-us-investors-sanctioned-2015-7

Rudy Giuliani

In 1993 Rudy Giuliani attained the mayorship of New York and developed a close bond with Bernard Kerik, a police detective for the NYPD who once helped arrange security for the Saudi royal family and assisted Giuliani through his campaign. When airplanes struck the World Tower in 2001, it was Kerik standing by Giuliani’s side (1).

During the 90‘s, however, Kerik developed mob-ties, details which spilled out in 2004 nomination process to become head of Homeland Security. One of those ties, whom the mob hired on Kerik’s request, was Lawrence Ray (2). In 2009 Kerik pled guilty to corruption, tax evasion, and making false statements.

In 1996 Ray was indicted for a pump-and-dump stock scheme run by several New York crime families, including the Gambinos, and the Russian mob, including none other than Felix Sater (3) who later arranged for Ivanka Trump to sit in Putin’s chair in Moscow and worked with the Trump Organization on the fraud-laden Trump SoHo project (5).

Interstate Industrial was also tied to former Gambino captain, Dominic Borghese (13). Another member of the Gambino crime family, Julius Nasso, ran his own mob-linked concrete company that worked jointly with S&A on Trump Tower . S&A was part owned by Roy Cohn's other client, "Fat Tony" of the Genovese crime family (12).

Julius Nasso's nephew of the same name partnered with Paul Manaofort to found Manhattan Pictures and produced Steven Seagal film. Ultimately Nasso spent a year in prison for extorting Steven Seagal (14) business partner in Manhattan Pictures, but not before the two made shadowy dealings with a company that sold Russian nuclear tech to US companies (15).

Also in 1996, just months after Yeltsin’s victory, Rupert Murdoch debuted Fox News Channel and appointed Roger Ailes founding CEO. Immediately Fox News Channel enlisted New York mayor Rudy Giuliani to pressure Time Warner to transmit Fox News (6). Giuliani also developed a close relationship with Donald Trump during his mayorship, including appearing with Trump in a comedy video in 2000 (7) and borrowing Trump’s private plane for a trip to Israel in 2001 (8).

In August 2001 Kerik traveled to Israel and for the first time met Israeli billionaire Eitan Wertheimer, who ran a company that did business with US defense contractors (16). The following December Giuliani borrowed Trump's plane to visit Israel himself (17). In 2002 Giuliani founded Giuliani Partners with Bernard Kerik and in 2003, while Kerik traveled to Iraq as part of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, he met up with Wertheimer again and received a "loan" a failed to document it (16).

In 2004 Giuliani Partners obtained Triglobal as a client. Triglobal, a company that connects Western businesses to the former Soviet Union, quickly shuttled Giuliani to Moscow to meet with Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, amongst other prominent politicians and business men of Russia (9).

In February 2013 Giulani met with Emin Agalarov, who’s publicist arranged the Trump Tower meeting with Russian agent Natalia Veselnitskaya (10). Over the years Giulani’s clients have included Alfabank, Rosneft, and Ukrainian politician Vitali Klitschko, all connected to Triglobal (11).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/30/giuliani.transcript/

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/03/us/politics/03kerik.html

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article174493821.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/ivanka-trump-putin-chair-felix-sater-russia-2017-8

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-ivanka-trump-and-donald-trump-jr-avoided-a-criminal-indictment

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/04/nyregion/giuliani-pressures-time-warner-to-transmit-a-fox-channel.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rudy-guiliani-donald-trump-drag-video-seduce-new-york-mayor-us-president-a8344921.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/11/nyregion/giuliani-used-trump-s-plane-for-weekend-visit-to-israel.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/us/politics/donald-trump-cabinet-rudy-giuliani.html

https://thesternfacts.com/rudy-giuliani-knows-russian-oligarchs-son-who-linked-trump-campaign-with-spies-3a1a366a90fd

https://thesternfacts.com/the-trump-russia-dossier-includes-rudy-giulianis-clients-alfa-bank-rosneft-and-qatar-1353876e789e

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/16/nyregion/convicted-crime-chief-charged-in-bid-rigging.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/20/nyregion/mob-ties-may-be-innocent-casino-panel-member-says.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_R._Nasso

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2017/11/28/florida-lawmakers-former-company-used-manafort-to-pitch-russian-developed-technology-to-us-government-123127

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/img-src-http-talkingpointsmemo-com-images-bush-kerik-lawn-muck-jpg-vspace-5-hspace-5-align-left-billionaire-businessman-gave-kerik-250k-loan

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/11/nyregion/giuliani-used-trump-s-plane-for-weekend-visit-to-israel.html

User was temp banned for this post.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
December 29 2018 14:02 GMT
#20174
I also learned today that the 19% chunk of Rosneft mentioned in the dossier that was sold through Qatar was purchased back by Russia. It was simply a method of moving a lot of money to pay someone(s) off. This shit is wild.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
December 29 2018 19:02 GMT
#20175
The problem with these conspiracies you guys are posting above is the sheer number of assumptions you're making (all of which align with your political bias). Just because two people are "connected" in that they have met or done business does not mean they are links in a chain of conspirators. There does seem to be a general shadiness of money-making surrounding politics, and they're all probably knee deep in financial crimes and election law violations, but their mere connection doesnt establish Russian collusion.

All of which is to say, there's not enough evidence at this point to say that collusion definitely occurred. Theres plenty of evidence to suggest that Don Jr and Sr were willing to collude, but they may have been too incompetent to pull it off.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8071 Posts
December 29 2018 21:32 GMT
#20176
On December 30 2018 04:02 Doodsmack wrote:
The problem with these conspiracies you guys are posting above is the sheer number of assumptions you're making (all of which align with your political bias). Just because two people are "connected" in that they have met or done business does not mean they are links in a chain of conspirators. There does seem to be a general shadiness of money-making surrounding politics, and they're all probably knee deep in financial crimes and election law violations, but their mere connection doesnt establish Russian collusion.

All of which is to say, there's not enough evidence at this point to say that collusion definitely occurred. Theres plenty of evidence to suggest that Don Jr and Sr were willing to collude, but they may have been too incompetent to pull it off.



There is something in court called reasonable assumption. Only very rarely is there one conclusive evidence for someone's guilt, but enough circumstantial evidence stacked on top of each other can often be enough proof to incriminate. There is undoubtedly enough circumstantial evidence to safely say Trump colluded with Russia. The only reason he's not behind bars is because A: So far everything has been controlled by the GoP who have no interests in keeping him accountable for his crimes and B: The sheer amount of things he's done couples with the size of the crimes themselves takes a while to investigate.
Taelshin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada418 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-29 22:30:28
December 29 2018 22:27 GMT
#20177
I usually don't agree with Doodsmack very often, But I've gotta give credit where credits due, Great post. I thought the right was supposed to be the bastion of wacky conspiracy theory's, Next thing your gonna tell me is that the frog's aren't gay they are actually Aliens!
"We didnt listen"
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13924 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-12-29 23:02:24
December 29 2018 23:02 GMT
#20178
On December 30 2018 06:32 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2018 04:02 Doodsmack wrote:
The problem with these conspiracies you guys are posting above is the sheer number of assumptions you're making (all of which align with your political bias). Just because two people are "connected" in that they have met or done business does not mean they are links in a chain of conspirators. There does seem to be a general shadiness of money-making surrounding politics, and they're all probably knee deep in financial crimes and election law violations, but their mere connection doesnt establish Russian collusion.

All of which is to say, there's not enough evidence at this point to say that collusion definitely occurred. Theres plenty of evidence to suggest that Don Jr and Sr were willing to collude, but they may have been too incompetent to pull it off.



There is something in court called reasonable assumption. Only very rarely is there one conclusive evidence for someone's guilt, but enough circumstantial evidence stacked on top of each other can often be enough proof to incriminate. There is undoubtedly enough circumstantial evidence to safely say Trump colluded with Russia. The only reason he's not behind bars is because A: So far everything has been controlled by the GoP who have no interests in keeping him accountable for his crimes and B: The sheer amount of things he's done couples with the size of the crimes themselves takes a while to investigate.

But the benefit of the doubt is what matters in sentencing and when you're playing with acuseing the guy who holds the football you don't have room for anything but hard evidence. If he didn't win the election the investigation probably wouldn't have taken as long and there wouldn't be as much need to dig down but we're talking legitimacy of the republic level here.

Stop being petty with your digs on the GOP. They're doing a bunch of things bad already but holding trump accountable for what at this point is still rumor and hearsay isn't a reasonable expectation. You have to wait for the investigation to finish before peddling that.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
December 29 2018 23:35 GMT
#20179
On December 30 2018 08:02 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2018 06:32 Excludos wrote:
On December 30 2018 04:02 Doodsmack wrote:
The problem with these conspiracies you guys are posting above is the sheer number of assumptions you're making (all of which align with your political bias). Just because two people are "connected" in that they have met or done business does not mean they are links in a chain of conspirators. There does seem to be a general shadiness of money-making surrounding politics, and they're all probably knee deep in financial crimes and election law violations, but their mere connection doesnt establish Russian collusion.

All of which is to say, there's not enough evidence at this point to say that collusion definitely occurred. Theres plenty of evidence to suggest that Don Jr and Sr were willing to collude, but they may have been too incompetent to pull it off.



There is something in court called reasonable assumption. Only very rarely is there one conclusive evidence for someone's guilt, but enough circumstantial evidence stacked on top of each other can often be enough proof to incriminate. There is undoubtedly enough circumstantial evidence to safely say Trump colluded with Russia. The only reason he's not behind bars is because A: So far everything has been controlled by the GoP who have no interests in keeping him accountable for his crimes and B: The sheer amount of things he's done couples with the size of the crimes themselves takes a while to investigate.

But the benefit of the doubt is what matters in sentencing and when you're playing with acuseing the guy who holds the football you don't have room for anything but hard evidence. If he didn't win the election the investigation probably wouldn't have taken as long and there wouldn't be as much need to dig down but we're talking legitimacy of the republic level here.

Stop being petty with your digs on the GOP. They're doing a bunch of things bad already but holding trump accountable for what at this point is still rumor and hearsay isn't a reasonable expectation. You have to wait for the investigation to finish before peddling that.

It's a reasonable expectation that they don't abuse their positions to actively sabotage ongoing investigations.

And guys like Nunes and Grassley couldn't even reach that bar.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8071 Posts
December 30 2018 00:13 GMT
#20180
On December 30 2018 07:27 Taelshin wrote:
I usually don't agree with Doodsmack very often, But I've gotta give credit where credits due, Great post. I thought the right was supposed to be the bastion of wacky conspiracy theory's, Next thing your gonna tell me is that the frog's aren't gay they are actually Aliens!


They're not wacky conspiracy theories when you have evidence to back them up. At this point it's only a conspiracy.
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