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Shootings and Casualties in Central Paris - Page 54
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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45318 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
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rotta
5599 Posts
On November 14 2015 23:56 KT_Elwood wrote: We (EU,US...) have to stand up and DEMAND from anyone who wants to live here, that he or she has to respect basic democracy, religious freedom and human rights. How can this be achieved without being labeled as racist? | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On November 14 2015 23:38 m4ini wrote: On topic of what moderate muslims should do etc, what was discussed yesterday night.. Translation: In the light of the terror attack series in paris, Gökay Sofuoglu - the chairman of the turkish community in germany - fears a new wave of anti-islam hostilities. "At the moment, in germany there's already a very tense situation with the refugee crisis, and right populistic parties like AfD and Pegida will politicise that." he said to the Stuttgarter Zeitung. "They will feel confirmed in their views and arguments and show themselves even louder in the public." At the same time the chairman of the turkish community, Gökay Sofuoglu, demands that muslims and muslimic societies in germany explicitly stand up against the violence. "It's time to find clear words against the terror of the islamic djihad." he said. Not correct would be calming statements now, how in general the islam is a religion of peace and doesn't condone those actions. "We muslims have to condemn the terror, loud and for everyone to see". Pretty much what was said yesterday, just the more official version. It's not good enough to be "a moderate muslim" anymore, those moderates have to start to actively show that they're as shocked, disgusted and horrified by what happened yesterday. edit: that's worded awkwardly, i meant it's not good enough to just state it. They are just appeasing the majority in this country. Fact is that a majority of turkish (and german citizens of turkish origin) describe themselves as turkish and more than 50% of them voted for a guy like Erdogan. Here are some of his best quotes: "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers" "You cannot put women and men on an equal footing. It is against nature" "The term moderate islam is ugly and offensive. There is no moderate islam. Islam is islam." I guess there is no radical islam either, according to him. Recently he played his part in refueling the armed conflict with the pkk, we hear nothing about that. Journalists who report about that, would probably go straight to jail. Here we have him with islamic terrorist Gulbuddin Hekmatyar from a time where Hekmatyar started his "career" fighting the the russians and throwing acid in the faces of women who wanted to attend universities. https://41.media.tumblr.com/cb0919c9fe3e9d1cc9ce45310f1524fd/tumblr_ns7lwj0Mgt1qzerk1o1_400.jpg The fact that a majority of people with turkish citizenship in Germany vote for this islamist with dictator tendencies speaks louder than every lip service coming out of the mouth of some organisation leader at an opportunistic point in time. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:14 rotta wrote: How can this be achieved without being labeled as racist? It can't, there's always morons who equal common sense with racism. Fact is that a majority of turkish (and german citizens of turkish origin) describe themselves as turkish Ignoring the rest of your post, since it's thin ice - this one here is plain stupid. I live in the UK, but i consider myself german, not british/welsh. How's that news? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
I don't think that should go ignored by westerners (even though I'm sure it will be.) Both countries need support. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:22 Jibba wrote: I know this is the thread for Paris but I think people should also know that ISIS set off two bombs in Beirut yesterday, killing 40+ and wounding 200+. I don't think that should go ignored by westerners (even though I'm sure it will be.) Both countries need support. .. kinda distgusting that i hear that here first, while being on the news pretty much all night yesterday. I actually didn't know that. | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:17 m4ini wrote: It can't, there's always morons who equal common sense with racism. Ignoring the rest of your post, since it's thin ice - this one here is plain stupid. I live in the UK, but i consider myself german, not british/welsh. How's that news? That a majority votes AKP is a fact. The question of identity gets interesting if one part of it radically rejects the other. GB/Germany/Sweden/ whatever west is different because a certain set of core values is shared, this is not necessarily the case with a constellation muslim with radical tendencies/west. The western way of doing things doesn't sit well with radical muslims and Erdogan is one and he gets voted for by over 50% of the turkish population in Germany. This is worrying. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:26 AngryMag wrote: That a majority votes AKP is a fact. The question of identity gets interesting if one part of it radically rejects the other. GB/Germany/Sweden/ whatever west is different because a certain set of core values is shared, this is not necessarily the case with a constellation muslim with radical tendencies/west. The western way of doing things doesn't sit well with radical muslims and Erdogan is one and he gets voted for by over 50% of the turkish population in Germany. This is worrying. First, if you state something as "fact", link a source to something that makes it a fact, not just your opinion. And no, there's no difference between me considering myself german in the UK and turkish considering themselves turkish in germany. I would also consider myself german if i for whatever reason would move to turkey. It's an argument that i'd expect from a pegida clown, not someone on TL. edit: to be clear, it doesn't matter where i go, i will always be a german. Proud of that, on top. | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:29 m4ini wrote: First, if you state something as "fact", link a source to something that makes it a fact, not just your opinion. And no, there's no difference between me considering myself german in the UK and turkish considering themselves turkish in germany. I would also consider myself german if i for whatever reason would move to turkey. It's an argument that i'd expect from a pegida clown, not someone on TL. edit: to be clear, it doesn't matter where i go, i will always be a german. Proud of that, on top. If you call something "thin ice" you should be able to inform yourself before attacking something as eventually factual incorrect, but here we go, he even got nearly 60% http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/tuerken-in-deutschland-waehlten-erdogan-partei-akp-a-1060661.html | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:26 AngryMag wrote: That a majority votes AKP is a fact. The question of identity gets interesting if one part of it radically rejects the other. GB/Germany/Sweden/ whatever west is different because a certain set of core values is shared, this is not necessarily the case with a constellation muslim with radical tendencies/west. The western way of doing things doesn't sit well with radical muslims and Erdogan is one and he gets voted for by over 50% of the turkish population in Germany. This is worrying. Erdogan is a megalomaniac with certain Islamist leanings, but he doesn't get votes because of religion and his religious actions (like trying to restrict alcohol) are his least popular. He's still supported because he oversaw a period of huge economic growth for Turkey and because he's extremely skilled at playing up Turkey's national identity issues (a common theme throughout Turkey's history) and fostering an "us versus them" mentality among the less educated. He's like Putin or Trump. Equating support for Erdogan to support for ISIS is simply ridiculous. He's a bigoted asshole, and even most Turks know that. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4742 Posts
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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:22 Jibba wrote: I know this is the thread for Paris but I think people should also know that ISIS set off two bombs in Beirut yesterday, killing 40+ and wounding 200+. I don't think that should go ignored by westerners (even though I'm sure it will be.) Both countries need support. There was also a man who stopped a suicide bomber but died himself. An unsung hero for sure | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:33 Silvanel wrote: People in this thread seem to bo more concerned with possible surge in right and far right parties than with making sure those kind of attacks wont happen again. Truly, when terrorists kill over houndred people the most important thing to do is to make sure Your response isnt racists..... Yes, it is. Rash responses only make things worse. | ||
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hashmon
Korea (South)84 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4742 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:36 Jibba wrote: Yes, it is. Rash responses only make things worse. I dont want to discuss this further (as it probably would led to topics banned in this thread) i just want to note i very strongly disagree. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
this is also an economic problem at the end because of the problem of disaffected youth etc. | ||
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On November 15 2015 00:32 AngryMag wrote: If you call something "thin ice" you should be able to inform yourself before attacking something as eventually factual incorrect, but here we go, he even got nearly 60% http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/tuerken-in-deutschland-waehlten-erdogan-partei-akp-a-1060661.html Okay, let's take off the funny gloves. You come off as said pegida/afd clown. You start with a completely retarded argument (turkish considering themselves turkish in germany), followed by some statement. Thin ice is not the 60% voting for erdogan, but you spouting populistic shit in every posting you made in this thread, and i don't want to get warnings in a clearly moderated thread. And who gives a shit what they vote for, they don't vote for islamic fundamentalism, or are we germans now crusaders because we vote CDU, you know, the german conservatives? Of course Erdogan is a clown, possibly dangerous. But they're not necessarily voting his religious views, as much as you/anyone don't vote for merkels. That connection, and there we close the circle again, comes from people that i don't want to be connected with in any way. Pegida clowns, populistic idiots and so on. Same people who say "well turkish in germany consider themselves turkish!!!!". edit: lol Just saw it, my hometown is #2 in the "people who voted for erdogan" list. Yeah, from experience.. I've yet to meet a fundamentalist, or radical. And i lived in the "most immigrant-y" part of Essen, for more than 30 years. | ||
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Rocket-Bear
3070 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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