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Shootings and Casualties in Central Paris - Page 36
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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. | ||
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Faefae
2203 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13991 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: This seems to be a good time to point to moderate Islam to be louder that hate but also boycott Saudi Wahhabism whether it's the Mosque they build or charities they start. And of course Secular education doesn't hurt either. Moderate Islam doesn't need to be louder in denouncing acts of terror, clearly it doesn't matter how loud we are, people will continue to hate and fear what they do not understand, nor are they willing to understand. That does not mean I have no sympathy for the french families and friends who lost loved ones, what I am saying is that it is ridiculous to say "moderate Islam needs to be louder". The fact that you say that proves there is no point in us saying jackshit because we DO denounce this stuff, because we are morally sound human beings goddamnit. | ||
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:54 ref4 wrote: How can you remove an ideology? It's not a physical being......it's impossible. In a theoretical world of course, should maybe have specified that, but I thought it was clearer that I was exaggerating | ||
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lethal111
Canada460 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13991 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:03 DickMcFanny wrote: Because Paris has the biggest Muslim population outside of London, and England is such a complete police state that it could never happen there. Do you have any actual proof of this? | ||
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CrayonPopChoa
Canada761 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:50 Aocowns wrote: I suppose I'd agree with the sentiment that you can't stop this by removing Islam from the world. Or well you could, but it would be very drastic. But to say that the current Islam does not at all pose a global problem whatsoever is ridiculous to me Please elaborate because I dont know how you get rid of 1.5 billion people | ||
zatic
Zurich15362 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19307 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:55 Cricketer12 wrote: Moderate Islam doesn't need to be louder in denouncing acts of terror, clearly it doesn't matter how loud we are, people will continue to hate and fear what they do not understand, nor are they willing to understand. That does not mean I have no sympathy for the french families and friends who lost loved ones, what I am saying is that it is ridiculous to say "moderate Islam needs to be louder". The fact that you say that proves there is no point in us saying jackshit because we DO denounce this stuff, because we are morally sound human beings goddamnit. theres no clear defined separation between moderate and radical islam. they often occupy the same communities, the same mosques. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Why do you think Oil is so low price. Domestic production is up especially in the US forcing Saudi to keep the price low in hopes of ending such operations. Then there is always renewables. I thought the saudis were keeping oil prices down to hurt russia mostly... | ||
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:55 Cricketer12 wrote: Moderate Islam doesn't need to be louder in denouncing acts of terror, clearly it doesn't matter how loud we are, people will continue to hate and fear what they do not understand, nor are they willing to understand. That does not mean I have no sympathy for the french families and friends who lost loved ones, what I am saying is that it is ridiculous to say "moderate Islam needs to be louder". The fact that you say that proves there is no point in us saying jackshit because we DO denounce this stuff, because we are morally sound human beings goddamnit. Yeah I agree it's not an issue of having to be louder anymore, it's more about effectively reaching impressionable masses But how active are religious leaders in muslim majority countries in teaching some of the more "problematic" chapters as spiritual struggles, or something else than the literal meaning of them? I'm asking out of curiosity and because I don't know, I've just gotten the impression that the Koran is usually interpreted literally and is taught as such | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:58 zatic wrote: Fuck religion. This. | ||
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:58 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Please elaborate because I dont know how you get rid of 1.5 billion people I was just making the point that acts of terrorism around the world would decrease drastically if there was no Islam. I was obviously not advocating removing Islam as a realistic solution, I'm sorry if the wording was unclear. (3AM and all, I hope I can be cut some slack lol) | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
And here is the problem : the first wave of immigrants in France did not identify at all as muslim, but by their nation of origin : in france there were algerian, kabyle (algerian ethnicity), tunisian, etc. Now their kids identify as muslim, so it's obvious that something changed and made those kids as identify as muslim. They are not muslim by essence. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13991 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:59 Aocowns wrote: Yeah I agree it's not an issue of having to be louder anymore, it's more about effectively reaching impressionable masses But how active are religious leaders in muslim majority countries in teaching some of the more "problematic" chapters as spiritual struggles, or something else than the literal meaning of them? I'm asking out of curiosity and because I don't know, I've just gotten the impression that the Koran is usually interpreted literally and is taught as such I will be perfectly honest I have no idea. What I can tell you is that in all my years of experience, going to masjids all over the world, not once have I come across an Imam who praised terrorist/encouraged this type of abominable action. Does that mean they speak about this enough? It's hard to say. Especially when one considers that in most cases they only get the chance to speak to the masses during friday sermon, and they have to talk about specific lessons on morality/religious practices etc. This is because many people either don't have the time to attend extra sermons/aren't interested. This then leads to the question are the people who do this frequent masjid goers? Do they actually read and interpret the Qur'an? I don't know but it would be helpful in determining that, so that we can determine exactly what we can do on our end to help make sure this stuff doesn't happen. Of course we have absolutely no say in the matter in the end, as people are people, but that doesn't mean we won't help if we can. | ||
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oBlade
United States5908 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:55 Cricketer12 wrote: Moderate Islam doesn't need to be louder in denouncing acts of terror, clearly it doesn't matter how loud we are, people will continue to hate and fear what they do not understand, nor are they willing to understand. That does not mean I have no sympathy for the french families and friends who lost loved ones, what I am saying is that it is ridiculous to say "moderate Islam needs to be louder". The fact that you say that proves there is no point in us saying jackshit because we DO denounce this stuff, because we are morally sound human beings goddamnit. I don't believe the point is that moderate Islam needs to be "louder" to stop people from mistaking moderates for extremists. I doubt StealthBlue was trying to attack your moral compass. I think the point is that moderate Islam needs to be louder because Islamic extremism hurts Muslims more than anyone else, and is a greater problem for Muslims than it is for the world in general. That moderates need to be loud in order to defeat extremism themselves. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50637 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13991 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:58 zatic wrote: Fuck religion. Oh boy, the hours I have wasted on these two words alone...I'll keep it brief and say it is quite ridiculous that someone can say this, when billions literal BILLIONS compared to AT MOST a couple thousand use religion as the cornerstone of their existence. It gives them meaning and keeps them at peace and happy. I'm not saying you can't have the opinion that religion is bad, I'm just saying that I think the opinion is stupid. | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On November 14 2015 10:59 Aocowns wrote: Yeah I agree it's not an issue of having to be louder anymore, it's more about effectively reaching impressionable masses But how active are religious leaders in muslim majority countries in teaching some of the more "problematic" chapters as spiritual struggles, or something else than the literal meaning of them? I'm asking out of curiosity and because I don't know, I've just gotten the impression that the Koran is usually interpreted literally and is taught as such Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Sudan, Yemen, Iran combined nearly have the world's have muslim population. The centers of muslimic believes are Saudi Arabia for Sunni Islam and Iran for Shia Islam. I probably don't have to tell you what they teach in Saudi Arabia. They still behead people for witchery and black magic. Apostasy is punishable by death, same as being gay, women are third rate citizens and so on. In Iran several thousands of homosexuals were hanged on cranes since the revolution. Here's an article about that http://observer.com/2015/05/how-iran-solved-its-gay-marriage-problem/ Pakistan north of Peshawar is taliban land. In Bangladesh "death for atheists and apostates" is a majority position. There are regularly demonstrations with 100 000's of people who demand exactly that. Sudan is sharia land I have a fairly good idea where the extremism comes from which we see in the mideast mostly but also in the west from time to time, it is islamic teachings in these countries and the importance of these teachings in the every day life of the inhabitants of these countries. I still remember the big demonstrations in some islamic countries after the CH attack actually supporting it. | ||
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