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On January 08 2015 08:47 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:17 AssyrianKing wrote:
Unless France starts growing a backbone & start doing some very serious immigration reforms and quite a bit of deportation, France is stuffed. White French people barely bring enough kids to keep up their population with the muslims Same in Germany, Belgium, Sweden and England. I'm pro immigration, I love that my city has tonnes of Asian students, we have an American village, loads of eastern European workers and everyone is getting along fine with Germans and Turks. In poor, urban areas, however, (Ruhrgebiet, certain parts of Cologne and Berlin) Turkish children already outnumber German children in school by as much as 7:3 and quite often teachers teach in classes in which less than half of the students understand German. Whenever I went out with my Turkish (non Muslim) girlfriend, she would be hissed at by Turkish guys calling her a whore and a traitor in Turkish. The problem is that far-right parties always made immigration their top agenda, so now when any politician talks about immigration, they are labeled as a Nazi. Even to suggest that there might be problem will have the media jump down your throat.
I can only speak for Sweden, but our woes are the result of decades of failed immigration and intergration policies. The invertebrate nature of our mainstream parties doesn't help either: no one is willing to assume even a shred of responsibility. I've met 14-15 year olds, born in Sweden, who can barely speak Swedish at a grade school level, and no English at all. These kids are basically doomed to a life of ostracization, they don't feel like a part of the greater society and have no incentive to care about it.
We've put ourselves in this mess.
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On January 08 2015 08:43 darkness wrote:
I think the question isn't about a citizenship here because it seems fair to be of a certain nationality if you are born in that country. The real problem is immigration isn't as successful as it should be or not the one outside Europe. In other words, integration should be greatly reconsidered in the next few years. Terror attacks have taken place in Australia, Canada, France, etc and it's often connected with islam. The world needs to either find a way to integrate muslims or never allow them in a country for a living. Racism? No. Just unbridgeable gap in culture.
Wtf?! One of my best friends is a black Muslim, I've been checked 11 times by the police in my life, 10 times with him. I've several other sons of immigrant friends, life is just tougher for them. The problem comes from our society not them. Sure it was easier to integrate Polish, Russians, Portuguese , Italians etc in France but they got accepted once a new wave of immigrants arrived. Also most of our wonderful health system works because of underpaid North African doctors. I could get other exemples.
I put this on ignorance but you should visit some North African countries to see what values they have we don't have. Yes there are problems but more often than not the shit comes from Europe and US in the grand scheme of things.
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On January 08 2015 08:52 Faefae wrote:Hope it's a reliable source !
It's not. Nobody knows them.
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This theory about the fake operation seems pretty strong. But then it becomes unclear. Some are saying there is an other operation in a different city (Charleville-Mézières), others are saying this is over and 2 terrorists have been arrested and one killed.
That's a mess.
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On January 08 2015 08:56 Boucot wrote:
This theory about the fake operation seems pretty strong. But then it becomes unclear. Some are saying there is an other operation in a different city (Charleville-Mézières), others are saying this is over and 2 terrorists have been arrested and one killed.
That's a mess.
If the terrorist were arrested, why the polce wouldn't release this piece of information?
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On January 08 2015 08:53 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 08 2015 08:40 SoSexy wrote:
It's funny how for you guys nothing is a problem, everyone is super good and respectful, violence episodes are 'media baits' but bombing and attacks actually happen and then you go like 'how could this happen?'. Do you live in the world of magic unicorns? No you are right. You and me, we have a little secret, but don't tell them because there are PC police around. See, the thing is (not too loud): it all because there are too many brown people. They smell a bit. And they are muslims, you know that stuff that says you have to kill people and rape women because. Ok, seriously, look, I see you want absolutely people to go with your xenophonic anti immigration stuff, at any cost in that thread. It's not happening, apparently. Too bad. Next time. I spent 10 hours at my job, I come back to read this thread, and you're still strawmanning people? We get it you're an immigrant or offspring of immigrants yourself so you take it personally. The problem biff, is not people like you who integrate into society and contribute. It also has nothing to do with skin color so I think you can save that one for another time.
There is no strawmanning. There are people who are using a mass murder commited by French people against French people to throw anti immigration crap that is completely unrelated. It has been said a hundred times: those people were not immigrants. If those guys did not integrate and did not contribute, it is not to blame on immigration, they were French. Blame it on unemployment, bad education, exposure to propaganda, etc etc etc. Is that too hard to understand, or am I "strawmanning"?
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On January 08 2015 08:54 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:43 darkness wrote:
I think the question isn't about a citizenship here because it seems fair to be of a certain nationality if you are born in that country. The real problem is immigration isn't as successful as it should be or not the one outside Europe. In other words, integration should be greatly reconsidered in the next few years. Terror attacks have taken place in Australia, Canada, France, etc and it's often connected with islam. The world needs to either find a way to integrate muslims or never allow them in a country for a living. Racism? No. Just unbridgeable gap in culture. Wtf?! One of my best friends is a black Muslim, I've been checked 11 times by the police in my life, 10 times with him. I've several other sons of immigrant friends, life is just tougher for them. The problem comes from our society not them. Sure it was easier to integrate Polish, Russians, Portuguese , Italians etc in France but they got accepted once a new wave of immigrants arrived. Also most of our wonderful health system works because of underpaid North African doctors. I could get other exemples. I put this on ignorance but you should visit some North African countries to see what values they have we don't have. Yes there are problems but more often than not the shit comes from Europe and US in the grand scheme of things.
Well, do you ask yourself why other Europeans aren't checked that much? It's not skin. If you open your eyes, you may realise that terror attacks have been present recently mainly because some people refuse to integrate with a country's culture and democratic believes.
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On January 08 2015 08:53 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:44 Ishentar wrote:On January 08 2015 08:40 Faefae wrote:On January 08 2015 08:39 r00ty wrote:
Seeing how the vast majority of French keep insisting on our mutual values in this thread, despite the events gives me hope. Thank you.
Also wtf, stop broadcasting this! Why don't you just phone the terrorists and tell them what's going on outside directly! Fucking idiots. Probably a fake intervention... Or french police is stupid? Hope & think it's the first! Well police isn't organizing a fake intervention just to bait the journalists... I think our police should ask the journalists to stay at hundreds of meter from the intervention... The press must stand with the police and with everyone fighting this ideology but that's not the way they're supposed to do that. same thing happened here in Syd, images would show where the cops were situated
Well that would be the first time in France that hundreds of policemen are used for a staged raid.
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MSNBC is confirming one dead, two in custody.
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So far any information about arrests or killed terrorist seems fake.
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On January 08 2015 08:58 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:54 nojok wrote:On January 08 2015 08:43 darkness wrote:
I think the question isn't about a citizenship here because it seems fair to be of a certain nationality if you are born in that country. The real problem is immigration isn't as successful as it should be or not the one outside Europe. In other words, integration should be greatly reconsidered in the next few years. Terror attacks have taken place in Australia, Canada, France, etc and it's often connected with islam. The world needs to either find a way to integrate muslims or never allow them in a country for a living. Racism? No. Just unbridgeable gap in culture. Wtf?! One of my best friends is a black Muslim, I've been checked 11 times by the police in my life, 10 times with him. I've several other sons of immigrant friends, life is just tougher for them. The problem comes from our society not them. Sure it was easier to integrate Polish, Russians, Portuguese , Italians etc in France but they got accepted once a new wave of immigrants arrived. Also most of our wonderful health system works because of underpaid North African doctors. I could get other exemples. I put this on ignorance but you should visit some North African countries to see what values they have we don't have. Yes there are problems but more often than not the shit comes from Europe and US in the grand scheme of things. Well, do you ask yourself why other Europeans aren't checked that much? It's not skin. If you open your eyes, you may realise that terror attacks have been present recently mainly because some people refuse to integrate with a country's culture and democratic believes.
I live in Norway and it looks like last time someone refused to integrate the country pacifist culture and its democratic beliefs and made a massacre, he was a white christian norwegian.
Why, why, why, why do we have to turn that discussion into a far right bot flame war? For Christ sake, those guys who got killed were fighting against those ideas. Turning their death into an arguments against european muslims and immigrants is to kill them a second time.
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On January 08 2015 08:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:53 heliusx wrote:On January 08 2015 08:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 08 2015 08:40 SoSexy wrote:
It's funny how for you guys nothing is a problem, everyone is super good and respectful, violence episodes are 'media baits' but bombing and attacks actually happen and then you go like 'how could this happen?'. Do you live in the world of magic unicorns? No you are right. You and me, we have a little secret, but don't tell them because there are PC police around. See, the thing is (not too loud): it all because there are too many brown people. They smell a bit. And they are muslims, you know that stuff that says you have to kill people and rape women because. Ok, seriously, look, I see you want absolutely people to go with your xenophonic anti immigration stuff, at any cost in that thread. It's not happening, apparently. Too bad. Next time. I spent 10 hours at my job, I come back to read this thread, and you're still strawmanning people? We get it you're an immigrant or offspring of immigrants yourself so you take it personally. The problem biff, is not people like you who integrate into society and contribute. It also has nothing to do with skin color so I think you can save that one for another time. There is no strawmanning. There are people who are using a murder commited by French people against French people to throw anti immigration crap that is completely unrelated. It has been said a hundred times: those people were not immigrants. If those guys did not integrate and did not contribute, it is not to blame on immigration, they were French. Is that too hard to understand, or am I "strawmanning"?
For a vast majority of French people it's not only about "French peeps killing French peeps". If a black (not arabian) or white person with something like traditional christian background (or even buddhist for that matter) was the terrorist everyone would be like "what the fuck ?" In this case everyone thinks that this was bound to happen sooner or later and that's what is worrying.
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On January 08 2015 09:01 ~chut~ wrote:
So far any information about arrests or killed terrorist seems fake.
According to Le Monde, no killing arrest has been confirmed. All of those are rumors.
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"Again, among our colleagues(journalists) here in Reims, NOT A SINGLE information about custody or death. Just one thing sure : operation R.A.I.D"
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NBC: One of the terrorists was arrested and jailed for two years after trying to recruit people to send to Iraq and kill American soldiers.
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On January 08 2015 09:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:58 darkness wrote:On January 08 2015 08:54 nojok wrote:On January 08 2015 08:43 darkness wrote:
I think the question isn't about a citizenship here because it seems fair to be of a certain nationality if you are born in that country. The real problem is immigration isn't as successful as it should be or not the one outside Europe. In other words, integration should be greatly reconsidered in the next few years. Terror attacks have taken place in Australia, Canada, France, etc and it's often connected with islam. The world needs to either find a way to integrate muslims or never allow them in a country for a living. Racism? No. Just unbridgeable gap in culture. Wtf?! One of my best friends is a black Muslim, I've been checked 11 times by the police in my life, 10 times with him. I've several other sons of immigrant friends, life is just tougher for them. The problem comes from our society not them. Sure it was easier to integrate Polish, Russians, Portuguese , Italians etc in France but they got accepted once a new wave of immigrants arrived. Also most of our wonderful health system works because of underpaid North African doctors. I could get other exemples. I put this on ignorance but you should visit some North African countries to see what values they have we don't have. Yes there are problems but more often than not the shit comes from Europe and US in the grand scheme of things. Well, do you ask yourself why other Europeans aren't checked that much? It's not skin. If you open your eyes, you may realise that terror attacks have been present recently mainly because some people refuse to integrate with a country's culture and democratic believes. I live in Norway and it looks like last time someone refused to integrate the country pacifist culture and its democratic beliefs and made a massacre, he was a white christian norwegian. Why, why, why, why do we have to turn that discussion into a far right bot flame war? For Christ sake, those guys who got killed were fighting against those ideas. Turning their death into an arguments against european muslims and immigrants is to kill them a second time.
I'm not saying terror attacks are inherently committed by muslims. You're right about the case you mention but what I refer to is the cause of those recent attacks. It's often because someone expresses a disagreement about their religion. When was the last time a christian killed a muslim or another christian for the sake of religion? A long time ago.
Edit: Unfortunately, if the world doesn't solve this integration problem, nazi/radical parties may as well come back.
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mmmhh still only nbc claiming to know whats going on..
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On January 08 2015 09:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 09:01 ~chut~ wrote:
So far any information about arrests or killed terrorist seems fake. According to Le Monde, no killing arrest has been confirmed. All of those are rumors.
Yep, that's what reliable french media are saying atm
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On January 08 2015 08:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:40 SoSexy wrote:
It's funny how for you guys nothing is a problem, everyone is super good and respectful, violence episodes are 'media baits' but bombing and attacks actually happen and then you go like 'how could this happen?'. Do you live in the world of magic unicorns? it all because there are too many brown people. .
This has nothing to do with race.
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On January 08 2015 09:02 Maluk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 08:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 08 2015 08:53 heliusx wrote:On January 08 2015 08:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 08 2015 08:40 SoSexy wrote:
It's funny how for you guys nothing is a problem, everyone is super good and respectful, violence episodes are 'media baits' but bombing and attacks actually happen and then you go like 'how could this happen?'. Do you live in the world of magic unicorns? No you are right. You and me, we have a little secret, but don't tell them because there are PC police around. See, the thing is (not too loud): it all because there are too many brown people. They smell a bit. And they are muslims, you know that stuff that says you have to kill people and rape women because. Ok, seriously, look, I see you want absolutely people to go with your xenophonic anti immigration stuff, at any cost in that thread. It's not happening, apparently. Too bad. Next time. I spent 10 hours at my job, I come back to read this thread, and you're still strawmanning people? We get it you're an immigrant or offspring of immigrants yourself so you take it personally. The problem biff, is not people like you who integrate into society and contribute. It also has nothing to do with skin color so I think you can save that one for another time. There is no strawmanning. There are people who are using a murder commited by French people against French people to throw anti immigration crap that is completely unrelated. It has been said a hundred times: those people were not immigrants. If those guys did not integrate and did not contribute, it is not to blame on immigration, they were French. Is that too hard to understand, or am I "strawmanning"? For a vast majority of French people it's not only about "French peeps killing French peeps". If a black (not arabian) or white person with something like traditional christian background (or even buddhist for that matter) was the terrorist everyone would be like "what the fuck ?" In this case everyone thinks that this was bound to happen sooner or later and that's what is worrying.
Ok, so people getting into fundamentalist islam are more likely to be from a muslim background and therefore, immigrants of first second or third generation. That sounds logical (even though it's not even always the case, since some of the last ISIS French recruits seen butchering people on those vids were white from christian background but whatever). Does it make the killing an immigration problem or does it shows an obvious link to a hypothetic immigration problem? Not at all.
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EPT
