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4 Hours of Pardo Discussing Blizzard Game Design

Forum Index > General Forum
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1 2 Next All
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16696 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-16 04:07:59
December 16 2014 04:06 GMT
#1
Part 2 contains the SC2 specific discussion
https://www.idlethumbs.net/designernotes/episodes/rob-pardo-part-2/

Part 1 discusses Blizzard's earlier titles and Ultima, D&D talk, and a little gem about BNet2 and Sc2.
https://www.idlethumbs.net/designernotes/episodes/rob-pardo-part-1/

Part 2 is 2 Hours of Rob Pardo discussing WC3, WoW, SC2, MOBAs, D3, Hearthstone

Altogether this is a 4 hour discussion about SC2, D&D, the Ultima series, SC, SC:BW, Diablo 1&2, WC3, WoW, MOBAs, D3, and Hearthstone.

lalush posted this interview on Reddit and i don't know why it is not a thread on here yet.
Thanks to lalush: this interview is incredible.

Rob Pardo was the Chief Creative Officer at the time he resigned in July 2014. He was a key game designer within Blizzard for 17 years.
Pardo was "Lead Designer" for WoW, WoW:TBC, WC3:RoC, WC3:FT, SC:BW, and now we know 2/3s of SC2.

Some highlights from the SC2 Talk:

-Pardo was lead designer through the first 2/3s of SC2's development. Browder was brought in and promoted to Lead Designer for the final 1/3.
-an explanation as to why SC2 took so long to make. ( Pardo's comment not mine.. his view is.. the game took "so long to make")
-he explains that high expectations created a lot fear in the design team.
-an account of how unlimited unit selection got put in SC2.
-in part 1 of the talk Pardo states SC2 was delayed almost a year because they wanted BNet2 to ship with SC2.

Great insights from a great designer.

If you wish to delve even deeper into Rob Pardo:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/460977-rob-pardo-leaves-blizzard-entertainment

the part about SC2 being delayed almost a year i distinctly remember. i recall in February 2009 Dustin Browder triumphantly announcing "we're in the home stretch". well the beta wasn't until March 2010.
http://www.geek.com/games/starcraft-2-is-in-the-final-stretch-695871/
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Jett.Jack.Alvir
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada2250 Posts
December 16 2014 04:43 GMT
#2
I saw that couple days ago, but never posted it here because I don't have 4 hours to spare listening to design decisions. If I didn't listen to the entire thing, I don't think I should post it here.

I did listen to part of it, and what I heard is interesting.
AC3
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada337 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-16 05:20:15
December 16 2014 05:19 GMT
#3
-in part 1 of the talk Pardo states SC2 was delayed almost a year because they wanted BNet2 to ship with SC2.

I don't even... How did it take almost a year longer than the development of the core game to make bnet 0.2? Especially in it's form at the beginning of WoL.
"The idea is to try to give all of the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another" -- Richard Feynman
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16696 Posts
December 16 2014 05:32 GMT
#4
There are a million ways to FUBAR a software project. especially when there are 3+ other important projects going on at the same time.

Blizzard is not perfect. However, they get enough right, often enough that i keep coming back to play their games.

BNet2 is miles better than anything you can get with C&C or CoH or AoE.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
AC3
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada337 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-16 06:33:05
December 16 2014 06:04 GMT
#5
I agree, most of my problems with it are on a design level rather than the underlying architecture of battle net. My main gripe is that it on top of delaying the game they managed to make it so uninviting.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/471497-huge-list-of-fixes-sc2-needs-in-order-to-be-great

There are too many things on that list that easily could of been accomplished during the original development.

But yeah, Blizzard is above and beyond every other developer for RTS games. Just finished exams and gonna play through WC3 campaign all night
"The idea is to try to give all of the information to help others to judge the value of your contribution; not just the information that leads to judgment in one particular direction or another" -- Richard Feynman
Kazahk
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States385 Posts
December 16 2014 14:45 GMT
#6
On December 16 2014 14:19 AC3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
-in part 1 of the talk Pardo states SC2 was delayed almost a year because they wanted BNet2 to ship with SC2.

I don't even... How did it take almost a year longer than the development of the core game to make bnet 0.2? Especially in it's form at the beginning of WoL.

Writing lines of code.
Rngesus blessed me with a tooth half, then shunned me with a spinach roll.
maartendq
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Belgium3115 Posts
December 16 2014 15:36 GMT
#7
On December 16 2014 14:19 AC3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
-in part 1 of the talk Pardo states SC2 was delayed almost a year because they wanted BNet2 to ship with SC2.

I don't even... How did it take almost a year longer than the development of the core game to make bnet 0.2? Especially in it's form at the beginning of WoL.

Because things that look simple on the outside are usually incredibly complicated below the surface?
SigmaoctanusIV
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States3313 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-16 17:03:19
December 16 2014 16:16 GMT
#8
The quality is pretty low I don't know if I can listen to it for 4 hours. Sounded interesting the little bit I listened to.
I am Godzilla You are Japan
Jett.Jack.Alvir
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada2250 Posts
December 16 2014 22:19 GMT
#9
On December 17 2014 01:16 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
The quality is pretty low I don't know if I can listen to it for 4 hours. Sounded interesting the little bit I listened to.

The quality was fine, I just wished it was transcribed so I can skim and read what I want, and not be forced to listen to the entire 4 hours.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12235 Posts
December 16 2014 22:28 GMT
#10
Just finished this up. Some cool insights from Rob although I get the feeling he might have inserted himself into some areas of development where maybe he wasn't as directly involved. For example, one of my friends was on the Starcraft Strike Team and was so proud that his big contribution to the game was suggesting slowing the Overlord speed to Terran building levels. About 40 minutes into the interview, Rob takes sole credit for that change. I'm not taking away from his substantial influence but there were a few instances where I thought to myself "hmmm, there were prooobably other people involved in that discussion."

Thanks for posting this though, a lot of cool stuff in here.
Moderator
Miwyfe
Profile Joined September 2010
England101 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-17 10:32:02
December 16 2014 23:53 GMT
#11
This is far from comprehensive but will get you started. There are other topics discussed in between the bits Ive tagged etc.

Starcraft 1 relevant bits:

Part 1, Starcraft 1 sections:
00.38 (game balance)
00.46 (Zileas using reavers)
00.51 (fastest game speed)
00.55 (apm)
01.07 (Maps)
01.10 (Broodwar specifically as opposed to starcraft vanilla)
01.18 (Amount of hours he worked)
01.21 (Meaning of balance, Boxer using vultures)
01.22 (emergent gameplay, spellcasters, move and shoot units)

Part 2
01.26 on part 2 (unlimited unit selection for starcraft 2)
HellRoxYa
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1614 Posts
December 17 2014 03:55 GMT
#12
On December 16 2014 14:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
There are a million ways to FUBAR a software project. especially when there are 3+ other important projects going on at the same time.

Blizzard is not perfect. However, they get enough right, often enough that i keep coming back to play their games.

BNet2 is miles better than anything you can get with C&C or CoH or AoE.


Yes, but the old B.net was also, arguably, better than the new one.
Lumi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1612 Posts
December 17 2014 04:02 GMT
#13
I think I'll revisit this thread to see what other people give away about the talk (particularly sc2) to find out if i'm interested enough to go wading through any of it :p Interest is definitely piqued.. but where's the insider juice that competes with the current sony e-mail leaks XD
twitter.com/lumigaming - DongRaeGu is the One True Dong - /r/onetruedong
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16696 Posts
December 20 2014 14:55 GMT
#14
On December 17 2014 12:55 HellRoxYa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2014 14:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
There are a million ways to FUBAR a software project. especially when there are 3+ other important projects going on at the same time.

Blizzard is not perfect. However, they get enough right, often enough that i keep coming back to play their games.

BNet2 is miles better than anything you can get with C&C or CoH or AoE.


Yes, but the old B.net was also, arguably, better than the new one.


i like the BNet2 ladder system and how my opponent is assigned a loss when he pulls the network chord
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
PineapplePizza
Profile Joined June 2010
United States749 Posts
December 20 2014 17:43 GMT
#15
It feels like this interview just makes the devs seem even more confusing.

It's weird how they could have held one little item with such regard (6 months to decide unit selection limits?) yet gun down other old dev decisions like high ground with hardly any forethought. This company is so damn weird.
"There should be no tying a sharp, hard object to your cock like it has a mechanical arm and hitting it with the object or using your cockring to crack the egg. No cyborg penises allowed. 100% flesh only." - semioldguy
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
December 20 2014 23:14 GMT
#16
On December 21 2014 02:43 PineapplePizza wrote:
It feels like this interview just makes the devs seem even more confusing.

It's weird how they could have held one little item with such regard (6 months to decide unit selection limits?) yet gun down other old dev decisions like high ground with hardly any forethought. This company is so damn weird.

All companies with large teams are like this. Some decisions and actions take months to decide on, even though they end up being minor in the long run. You have to get through so many items every 2-3 weeks, and everybody has their own items to spearhead first. Some things face resistance from the team faced with programming it, or the team(s) procrastinate on it in favor of their dear projects.
reminisce12
Profile Joined March 2012
Australia318 Posts
January 15 2015 12:33 GMT
#17
the reaver nerf is interesting... now i know why the reaver doesnt instant fire after being dropped..
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
January 15 2015 12:38 GMT
#18
On December 20 2014 23:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 17 2014 12:55 HellRoxYa wrote:
On December 16 2014 14:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
There are a million ways to FUBAR a software project. especially when there are 3+ other important projects going on at the same time.

Blizzard is not perfect. However, they get enough right, often enough that i keep coming back to play their games.

BNet2 is miles better than anything you can get with C&C or CoH or AoE.


Yes, but the old B.net was also, arguably, better than the new one.


i like the BNet2 ladder system and how my opponent is assigned a loss when he pulls the network chord


He's obviously talking about the UI side of things and the front-end of BNet2.

Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-15 12:57:16
January 15 2015 12:42 GMT
#19
The warcraft3 bnet, whatever you call it, was far superior to the so-called bnet 2.0 on launch. It even had chatrooms.

edit: Oh but I'm loving the interview haha
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
reminisce12
Profile Joined March 2012
Australia318 Posts
January 15 2015 12:54 GMT
#20
srsly blizz game design philosophy is turning into fast food, they want games to be over quicker.. and rob doesnt understand why mobas are pop lol...
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