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On October 16 2017 07:21 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 07:19 Big J wrote:On October 16 2017 07:15 sc-darkness wrote:On October 16 2017 07:06 Pr0wler wrote:On October 16 2017 06:53 mahrgell wrote:On October 16 2017 06:34 Pr0wler wrote:On October 16 2017 06:25 mahrgell wrote:On October 16 2017 06:17 Pr0wler wrote:On October 16 2017 06:01 Artisreal wrote:On October 16 2017 05:56 Pr0wler wrote:
Obviously you don't need to be smart to run a country. Later examples - Trump, Putin, Merkel, Juncker(Maybe Trump is the smartest of them all, lol)... I can go on. Trump - rich kid Merkel - PhD in Physics Juncker - law education Putin - law education, KGB officer But by all means go on Trump runs succesful (somewhat) business. Merkel - phd in Physics... and then career politician for the past 30 years. Any significant publications from her ? No ? Juncker - pretty much career politician his whole life. Putin - KGB agent, then policeman, then politician...Always part of the repressive apparatus. Everything he did is thanks to his relations with the communist party. Are you seriously considering these people smart ? How did they contribute to the society ? What is their added value ? Other than their past, which you focus on, look at the way they are running(or should I say ruining) their countries. And you still think that they are smart  The sooner we get rid of all these career politicians, the better for everyone. Okay, I looked at how they are running their countries. Came to the conclusion that they are indeed smart, even though I don't agree with their politics. Oh, and what exactly was the alternative to career politicians? Ah, the greatest and most success businessmen, obv. Seen that, had enough Please give me more career politicians please, thanks. The alternative is simple... People that actually know what they are doing, experts in their field and that actually have some work experience. But who am I to tell you this, have your politician that sits behind a desk doing nothing for 30 years. Enjoy it. We are doing great anyways(lol). On October 16 2017 06:27 Artisreal wrote:
idk what you try to gain by saying Trump is smarter than the others you mentioned. Apart from showing that you're absurdly wrong, there is no apparent merit in this discussion. Well the guy actually did something in his life... And I said "maybe" so I'm not sure. Sounds like a great argument Pro career politicians. They are experts at politics and have work experience there. :D Oh and... Yes, Germany is doing quite well, especially compared to everyone else around. Merkel just got elected for her 4th time and will become the 2nd longest serving German chancellor. And I would think, most Russians prefer todays Russia over the Russia before Putin too. They have experience in... "politics". Thank God. The most useful discipline of them all. Unless you have to do something else other than picking your nose. Germany is doing great... Tell me your growth(both economic and population) rate and why do you need immigrants to run your economy ? Also I'm sure most russains prefer to be beaten when they say something that they shouldn't... They also love recession. The bar for "Great" is rather low nowdays. Cheap labour, that's why. If they're refugees, then that's a bonus for Mutti Multikulti. some people... obviously you have no clue about the German labour market I have a perfect clue by being in the west. It's cheap labour to bring non-EU workforce in a lot of the cases. Minimum wage. That's the motto if they can get away with it. I think you need to look outside TL to figure this out. Check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-hour_contract
A friend of mine is here in Germany for about three years. Maybe a little more, maybe less.
Fleeing the Syrian civil war. After devoting all his energy to bringing his wife and children which took almost two years (one of which it took to be acknowledged as a refugee of war) he's on the job hunt for months. And he already has done various unpaid jobs and voluntary work.
Do you have any idea how many of those refugees actually are able to get a work permit and after they obtain that find a regular job?
The former might even be easier than the latter.
In case you're curious about the regulations regarding event to the job market look it up.
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2774 Posts
Sure, I think there's a valid point somewhere lost in the argument. That career politicians might seem out of touch at times, but often times when it's your career you might have to make strategic decisions. To an extent anyway. In no way do I think these people are malicious to society or that they're generally dumb. I find it questionable to suggest that these people would be somehow unintelligent. There's much more basis for the opposite.
On October 16 2017 07:21 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 07:19 Big J wrote:On October 16 2017 07:15 sc-darkness wrote:On October 16 2017 07:06 Pr0wler wrote:On October 16 2017 06:53 mahrgell wrote:On October 16 2017 06:34 Pr0wler wrote:On October 16 2017 06:25 mahrgell wrote:On October 16 2017 06:17 Pr0wler wrote:On October 16 2017 06:01 Artisreal wrote:On October 16 2017 05:56 Pr0wler wrote:
Obviously you don't need to be smart to run a country. Later examples - Trump, Putin, Merkel, Juncker(Maybe Trump is the smartest of them all, lol)... I can go on. Trump - rich kid Merkel - PhD in Physics Juncker - law education Putin - law education, KGB officer But by all means go on Trump runs succesful (somewhat) business. Merkel - phd in Physics... and then career politician for the past 30 years. Any significant publications from her ? No ? Juncker - pretty much career politician his whole life. Putin - KGB agent, then policeman, then politician...Always part of the repressive apparatus. Everything he did is thanks to his relations with the communist party. Are you seriously considering these people smart ? How did they contribute to the society ? What is their added value ? Other than their past, which you focus on, look at the way they are running(or should I say ruining) their countries. And you still think that they are smart The sooner we get rid of all these career politicians, the better for everyone. Okay, I looked at how they are running their countries. Came to the conclusion that they are indeed smart, even though I don't agree with their politics. Oh, and what exactly was the alternative to career politicians? Ah, the greatest and most success businessmen, obv. Seen that, had enough Please give me more career politicians please, thanks. The alternative is simple... People that actually know what they are doing, experts in their field and that actually have some work experience. But who am I to tell you this, have your politician that sits behind a desk doing nothing for 30 years. Enjoy it. We are doing great anyways(lol). On October 16 2017 06:27 Artisreal wrote:
idk what you try to gain by saying Trump is smarter than the others you mentioned. Apart from showing that you're absurdly wrong, there is no apparent merit in this discussion. Well the guy actually did something in his life... And I said "maybe" so I'm not sure. Sounds like a great argument Pro career politicians. They are experts at politics and have work experience there. :D Oh and... Yes, Germany is doing quite well, especially compared to everyone else around. Merkel just got elected for her 4th time and will become the 2nd longest serving German chancellor. And I would think, most Russians prefer todays Russia over the Russia before Putin too. They have experience in... "politics". Thank God. The most useful discipline of them all. Unless you have to do something else other than picking your nose. Germany is doing great... Tell me your growth(both economic and population) rate and why do you need immigrants to run your economy ? Also I'm sure most russains prefer to be beaten when they say something that they shouldn't... They also love recession. The bar for "Great" is rather low nowdays. Cheap labour, that's why. If they're refugees, then that's a bonus for Mutti Multikulti. some people... obviously you have no clue about the German labour market I have a perfect clue by being in the west. It's cheap labour to bring non-EU workforce in a lot of the cases. Minimum wage. That's the motto if they can get away with it. I think you need to look outside TL to figure this out. Check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-hour_contract
Zero-hour contracts aren't common in the EU, outside the UK, including in Germany. And take your half-assed baiting elsewhere.
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Catalunia has till tomorrow to declare if they declared independence,if I understand it correctly.
Expectations are that they will do so I read in papers here, which seems somewhat unlikely to me. When they do puigdemont will be arrested and catalunia will be governed from Madrid for the time being which will make it a long term problem with no solution in sight. Curious how this will end but I would be surprised if catalunia would continue with the path to independence as there seems nothing to gain for the moment and everything to lose.
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I don't think that there is argument at all. Some people got mad when I called their precious leaders not smart. (Especially when I said that the demon for the "liberals" is "maybe smarter"). All I can judge them upon is the result of their job... In my opinion not impressive at all. Just look at the state of EU, the Euro zone, the demographics in Europe, the Middle East and the refugee crisis, the climate, wealth distribution. Failure after failure and a lot of corruption in between.
And then why nationalists and other radicals rise in popularity...
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And the answer to wealth distribution and climate change is obviously to elect chauvinists who deny the latter and throw the welfare state into the dumpster. Completely logical reaction. This is pretty much like setting the house on fire because you're upset that the liberals were not able to fix the leak in the roof
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On October 16 2017 09:46 Nyxisto wrote:
And the answer to wealth distribution and climate change is obviously to elect chauvinists who deny the latter and throw the welfare state into the dumpster. Completely logical reaction. This is pretty much like setting the house on fire because you're upset that the liberals were not able to fix the leak in the roof
I stated my answer earlier... We should replace the politicians with people that know what they are doing - experts with experience.
As for the nationalists and radicals - this is what you get for putting incompetent people in power. Obviously some people will act irrationally in their anger against the status quo.
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On October 16 2017 09:56 Pr0wler wrote:
I stated my answer earlier... We should replace the politicians with people that know what they are doing - experts with experience.
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Experts with experience in what?
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Norway28892 Posts
Experts with experience are already part of the decisionmaking process. In Norway, the ministers of the various departments all have political advisers, who are legitimate experts within their fields. They're not the public faces, but they are absolutely present when they are designing specific policy. I honestly assume it's the same way for all western democracies, but maybe not the more corrupt more recent ones.
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On October 16 2017 10:00 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 09:56 Pr0wler wrote:
I stated my answer earlier... We should replace the politicians with people that know what they are doing - experts with experience.
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Experts with experience in what?
In being judges in Australia got talent...
Obviously experience in their respective fields. Proven successful people - financists, economists, lawyers, generals, managers, physicists, diplomats etc.
@Liquid`Drone
Well, obviously we have those, because the ministers themselves don't really know what they are doing most of the time. But even with these experts, the political cabinet often ignores their advisors and does something completely different, because they will earn political or financial benefit from it. Also when you elect someone, you don't really know who are his advisors... They can be the most brilliant people or not so brilliant, but "easy to work with" people, that are there for the high salary.
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then these people need to join parties and get elected. Or do you propose we just cycle in experts through a lottery?
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On October 16 2017 10:59 Nyxisto wrote:
then these people need to join parties and get elected. Or do you propose we just cycle in experts through a lottery?
"These" people are already part of parties or founded parties. Usually in my country such parties get sub 1%, while the big parties that are corrupt to the bone are taking turns in office, thanks to the "left-right" fear rhetoric.
All we have to do is throw the trash away and elect the decent people. Or the trash will be trown away anyways and the radicals will take their place... One of the two will happen, I hope it's the former.
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On October 16 2017 10:32 Pr0wler wrote:...
In being judges in Australia got talent...
Obviously experience in their respective fields. Proven successful people - financists, economists, lawyers, generals, managers, physicists, diplomats etc.
The funny thing is that as a politician I'd take somebody with skill in choosing talented subordinates over an expert in whatever field. One person can only do so much in a day.
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On October 16 2017 13:09 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 10:32 Pr0wler wrote:...
In being judges in Australia got talent...
Obviously experience in their respective fields. Proven successful people - financists, economists, lawyers, generals, managers, physicists, diplomats etc.
The funny thing is that as a politician I'd take somebody with skill in choosing talented subordinates over an expert in whatever field. One person can only do so much in a day.
And how do you prove a track record in doing that? Trump promised he had the best people after all, yet that was a clown show. Macron seemed like he was going the route of the technocrats, but really he's just surrounded himself with all the same political elites that have been there for years.
But I don't think the main criticism against politicians is that they're stupid (at least not in Europe). Self-serving and out of touch, maybe. Rajoy is probably a good example. He's not the smartest politician, but I doubt he's particularly stupid. But he has shown time and again that he doesn't care at all for anybody who didn't vote for him, which has led to a major crisis in Catalonia. He has consistently ignored the problem as it was growing, because addressing the problem years ago would have been unpopular with his political base. And now it has exploded. I still don't think it's stupid per se. It is, however, a cynical form of populism and rather short-sighted.
Meanwhile Catalonia radicalized and it is now going to be extremely hard to solve the issue even if puigdemont doesn't create an even greater rift today by declaring independence... and if he steers the path of the radicals, then I'm afraid it can get really ugly. Now on to puigdemont: @prowler, what kind of experience should a man have to prepare him for negotiating independence with an essentially hostile government?
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On October 16 2017 14:46 Acrofales wrote:
Meanwhile Catalonia radicalized and it is now going to be extremely hard to solve the issue even if puigdemont doesn't create an even greater rift today by declaring independence... and if he steers the path of the radicals, then I'm afraid it can get really ugly. Now on to puigdemont: @prowler, what kind of experience should a man have to prepare him for negotiating independence with an essentially hostile government?
Insurgence leader? Bring some people over from ISIS, IRA or ETA? Can't think of many nearby organisations with experience in it.
Though the people moving the colonies away from European powers could perhaps be judged to be experienced. Most European powers weren't hostile though.
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Very happy about the Austrian result. Of course left-wing newspapers in Italy are already going crazy, with Repubblica (arguably the most influent newspaper in Italy) writing 'They have fallen into the populist trap!' :D :D :D
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On October 16 2017 09:56 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 09:46 Nyxisto wrote:
And the answer to wealth distribution and climate change is obviously to elect chauvinists who deny the latter and throw the welfare state into the dumpster. Completely logical reaction. This is pretty much like setting the house on fire because you're upset that the liberals were not able to fix the leak in the roof I stated my answer earlier... We should replace the politicians with people that know what they are doing - experts with experience. As for the nationalists and radicals - this is what you get for putting incompetent people in power. Obviously some people will act irrationally in their anger against the status quo.
Like electing a historian denying the Holocaust and man made climate change has any merit above electing a dog as major. Nice punditocracy your got there.
The AfD sends her regards.
It's an absolute illusion that, firstly, pundits have all the answers, easily shown by the disparity in their fields, take economics, secondly that those have a closer grasp on the reality of the populace than a career politician.
Many German members of parliament, between about 15-50%varying from party to party, actually have a secondary a job but as being the former takes a lot of time it's understandable that to become pundits they'll actually have to invest most of their time in being politicians.
While I agree that experts from various fields should support in politics, it's the actual politician that should form a coherent policy out of the varying inputs they receive.
I don't think we're that far from each other here.
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@Artisreal he didn't say that electing retards into office has any merits or it is any smart, but that it is expected after being neglected. You are either not reading him, or just strawmanning him for fun's sake.
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I just said that a so called expert isn't necessarily close to the truth with his opinion, even if he has the proper education.
Hence the example with a historian denying the Holocaust.
I simply disagree that you can call a career politician less fit for the job than an expert. Politicians rely on experts. They all have them on their team.
Even trump does but he seemingly is too full of himself to mind them.
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![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMNQl5UW0AAU__T.jpg)
Jesus... (Austrian election yesterday.)
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On October 16 2017 19:35 TheDwf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Jesus... (Austrian election yesterday.)
That's confusing. What about the unemployed and not-yet-employed (students mostly)? Basically, the number of "blue collar" workers is borderline negligible or what? Because looking purely at this statistic, there must be about 3 times as many retired people (well voter, to be precise) as there are blue collar workers in order to get to 26% of FPÖ voters.
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EPT
