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On September 25 2017 21:31 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 19:05 Simberto wrote:On September 25 2017 16:47 r.Evo wrote:On September 25 2017 14:17 Nyxisto wrote:
The standards in Germany are a little bit different. This is the first time a borderline racist / nationalist /whatever term you like party moves into the Bundestag. The golden rule until now was Josef Strauß "there must be no democratically legitimsed party right of the CSU", so this is really fucked up for a lot of people, even if they "only" got 12%.
I'd drop the "borderline" and be more specific: Part of the party leadership represents genuine democratic interests. However, that wing of the party (pretty much the ones around Petry) has lost power in favor of elements that do embrace racism, anti-Semitism and nationalistic viewpoints. They're associating themselves with organisations that are already under surveillance due to being right-wing extremist (the Identitarian movement comes to mind). They, as a party, have decided to be open and even welcoming to all kinds of extremist elements. People who called for the shooting of refugees at the border, people who want homosexuals to be jailed, people who want to celebrate German WW2 achievements. All of them and more are part of the core identity of the AfD at this point and the party as a whole has decided to keep them around. We're (hopefully) in for a bit of a shitshow when those two major movements within the AfD eventually clash. I wouldn't be surprised if a third or even half of that party ends up tied up in legal issues due to these extremist views. By all means, work with those who show an actual respect for the German constitution, for German traditions and values. Those who overstep those boundaries do not need to be tolerated and not doing so is a core part of the design of the German post-WW2 system as a whole. I really hope they will prove as incompetent as any other extremist right-wing party has so far. Every time the NPD got into a Landtag, they had major infighting, didn't get anything done, and had amazing amounts of corruption. They usually weren't reelected afterwards. They took less than 12h to start breaking up. Petry announced starting her own parliamentary group, a couple people left a state parliament faction and now Weidel is officially asking her to leave. That was a lot quicker than expected. Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 19:16 Godwrath wrote:
I am perfectly fine with a democratic "fuck you" if there are no politician that represents me in a reasonable manner. I find the afd victory to get into german politics repugnant.
I don't know a thing about german politics to see if there is a % of the population who could (in my view) legitimaly vote for a "fuck you" but maybe you should try to see how you got there in the first place rather than continue to be dismissal about what is going as if it is only an statistical rarity which won't get to be the norm.
And if the answer to that is only "politicians who exploited racism and xenophobic tendencies due to circumstancial factors", you are in for a long list of dissapointments. Because either you already have a good chunk of your population being racist, so the situation will get normalized and you will have to deal with it anyways, or you are continuing to ignore the people who are eager to tell you go fuck yourself if ignored. For what it's worth 60% of AfD voters said they voted AfD because they're disappointed with other parties. All in all I think it's completely unfair to classify all AfD voters under the same umbrella as what some of the AfD leadership is up to.
Regarding your last comment:
If that kind of behaviour is pushed further we might end up with our own supreme leader trump again.
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On September 25 2017 21:49 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 21:31 r.Evo wrote:On September 25 2017 19:05 Simberto wrote:On September 25 2017 16:47 r.Evo wrote:On September 25 2017 14:17 Nyxisto wrote:
The standards in Germany are a little bit different. This is the first time a borderline racist / nationalist /whatever term you like party moves into the Bundestag. The golden rule until now was Josef Strauß "there must be no democratically legitimsed party right of the CSU", so this is really fucked up for a lot of people, even if they "only" got 12%.
I'd drop the "borderline" and be more specific: Part of the party leadership represents genuine democratic interests. However, that wing of the party (pretty much the ones around Petry) has lost power in favor of elements that do embrace racism, anti-Semitism and nationalistic viewpoints. They're associating themselves with organisations that are already under surveillance due to being right-wing extremist (the Identitarian movement comes to mind). They, as a party, have decided to be open and even welcoming to all kinds of extremist elements. People who called for the shooting of refugees at the border, people who want homosexuals to be jailed, people who want to celebrate German WW2 achievements. All of them and more are part of the core identity of the AfD at this point and the party as a whole has decided to keep them around. We're (hopefully) in for a bit of a shitshow when those two major movements within the AfD eventually clash. I wouldn't be surprised if a third or even half of that party ends up tied up in legal issues due to these extremist views. By all means, work with those who show an actual respect for the German constitution, for German traditions and values. Those who overstep those boundaries do not need to be tolerated and not doing so is a core part of the design of the German post-WW2 system as a whole. I really hope they will prove as incompetent as any other extremist right-wing party has so far. Every time the NPD got into a Landtag, they had major infighting, didn't get anything done, and had amazing amounts of corruption. They usually weren't reelected afterwards. They took less than 12h to start breaking up. Petry announced starting her own parliamentary group, a couple people left a state parliament faction and now Weidel is officially asking her to leave. That was a lot quicker than expected. On September 25 2017 19:16 Godwrath wrote:
I am perfectly fine with a democratic "fuck you" if there are no politician that represents me in a reasonable manner. I find the afd victory to get into german politics repugnant.
I don't know a thing about german politics to see if there is a % of the population who could (in my view) legitimaly vote for a "fuck you" but maybe you should try to see how you got there in the first place rather than continue to be dismissal about what is going as if it is only an statistical rarity which won't get to be the norm.
And if the answer to that is only "politicians who exploited racism and xenophobic tendencies due to circumstancial factors", you are in for a long list of dissapointments. Because either you already have a good chunk of your population being racist, so the situation will get normalized and you will have to deal with it anyways, or you are continuing to ignore the people who are eager to tell you go fuck yourself if ignored. For what it's worth 60% of AfD voters said they voted AfD because they're disappointed with other parties. All in all I think it's completely unfair to classify all AfD voters under the same umbrella as what some of the AfD leadership is up to. Regarding your last comment: If that kind of behaviour is pushed further we might end up with our own supreme leader trump again.
Agreed, I just consider that secondary for now, especially with a split in the party happening so quickly.
Right now the most important issue is figuring out which people within the party are extremists that violate German law, and which of them have potentially highly questionable views that we still have to tolerate as long as they don't cross various red lines.
Analogue for voters - sure I personally am not a fan at all but knowing that a large portion of their voters claim that they did so without being actually convinced by their program is a lot more positive than their voterbase being fully behind their entire course. There are quite a few people here who aren't "lost" to the democratic process in some way, but it's both up to both politics and society to keep up the dialogue and figure out solutions for actual real issues that they have.
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Surely there are better parties to throw votes at as a sign of discontent that the far right.
I don't get those people, any message of discontent is drowned in a sea of "gone with foreigners".
Does Germany not have some complete joke party to vote?
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On September 25 2017 22:09 Gorsameth wrote:
Surely there are better parties to throw votes at as a sign of discontent that the far right.
I don't get those people, any message of discontent is drowned in a sea of "gone with foreigners".
Does Germany not have some complete joke party to vote?
We have "Die PARTEI" (1% of the votes), which also has a representative in the EU parliament.
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At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election.
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On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election.
After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics.
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On September 25 2017 21:31 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 19:05 Simberto wrote:On September 25 2017 16:47 r.Evo wrote:On September 25 2017 14:17 Nyxisto wrote:
The standards in Germany are a little bit different. This is the first time a borderline racist / nationalist /whatever term you like party moves into the Bundestag. The golden rule until now was Josef Strauß "there must be no democratically legitimsed party right of the CSU", so this is really fucked up for a lot of people, even if they "only" got 12%.
I'd drop the "borderline" and be more specific: Part of the party leadership represents genuine democratic interests. However, that wing of the party (pretty much the ones around Petry) has lost power in favor of elements that do embrace racism, anti-Semitism and nationalistic viewpoints. They're associating themselves with organisations that are already under surveillance due to being right-wing extremist (the Identitarian movement comes to mind). They, as a party, have decided to be open and even welcoming to all kinds of extremist elements. People who called for the shooting of refugees at the border, people who want homosexuals to be jailed, people who want to celebrate German WW2 achievements. All of them and more are part of the core identity of the AfD at this point and the party as a whole has decided to keep them around. We're (hopefully) in for a bit of a shitshow when those two major movements within the AfD eventually clash. I wouldn't be surprised if a third or even half of that party ends up tied up in legal issues due to these extremist views. By all means, work with those who show an actual respect for the German constitution, for German traditions and values. Those who overstep those boundaries do not need to be tolerated and not doing so is a core part of the design of the German post-WW2 system as a whole. I really hope they will prove as incompetent as any other extremist right-wing party has so far. Every time the NPD got into a Landtag, they had major infighting, didn't get anything done, and had amazing amounts of corruption. They usually weren't reelected afterwards. They took less than 12h to start breaking up. Petry announced starting her own parliamentary group, a couple people left a state parliament faction and now Weidel is officially asking her to leave. That was a lot quicker than expected.
Funny, the number 2 of the FN had to leave the party a few days ago after the right wing of the party cornered him. Not only those people hate others, but they hate each others as well...
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On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics.
What's wrong with European politics?
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On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics?
Not Pro-Russian enough for LL.
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On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics?
Has a tendency to stifle any opinion outside of a pre-established political norm upheld by the political elite. By design of course, but that's an unfortunate design.
On September 25 2017 23:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Not Pro-Russian enough for LL.
Do you ever get tired of going around being an immature troll? Your posts are about what you could expect in quality from Yahoo news comments - neither productive nor insightful, but posted mostly just because it's necessary to say something.
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Some more news regarding Petry & the AfD:
Apparently this was planned since a while [source] with a few major news organizations knowing about some of the details but not releasing them until her official statement.
Those reports sounds as if 20-25% of her party is expected to follow her. Her full statement which she posted on Facebook basically boils down to her referring to the rest of her party as "anarchistic" and similar things and that she is breaking up with them because they decided to only plan on working as an opposition and nothing else.
She plans to lead a 'truly conservative movement' based around things like being against equal marriage rights for homosexuals, being against renewable energy and (obviously) illegal immigration.
Kind of amusing considering how long it took for Germany to e.g. implement gay marriage considering popular opinion was in favor for it since quite a while.
Her full statement in German:
+ Show Spoiler +
Liebe Wähler und Unterstützer,
ein Wahlkrimi, der in der jüngeren deutschen Geschichte seinesgleichen sucht, ist gestern zu Ende gegangen.
Vier Jahre, sieben Monate und 21 Tage, nachdem wir die Alternative für Deutschland gegründet haben, ist sie nun mit rund 13% in den Deutschen Bundestag eingezogen. Damit haben sich viele Bürger für einen demokratischen Diskurs in unserem Land entschieden, den wir so dringend brauchen, um die Fehlentwicklungen der Merkel-Politik in Berlin und Brüssel endlich zu beenden.
Seit Monaten haben unzählige ehrenamtliche Helfer ihre Freizeit und ihr persönliches Geld dafür eingesetzt, dass die #AfD sich deutschlandweit als parlamentarische Kraft etablieren kann. Dafür möchte ich mich persönlich und im Namen der AfD von ganzem Herzen bedanken.
Ich weiß nur allzu gut, wieviel Mut es heute braucht, um sich öffentlich zu einer politischen Kraft zu bekennen, die vom politischen Gegner und weiten Teilen der Öffentlichkeit pauschal als „Nazi“-Partei beschimpft wird. Ihnen allen ist es mit zu verdanken, dass der 19. Deutsche Bundestag auch aus Parlamentariern besteht, die für einen Politikwechsel zugunsten von Rechtsstaatlichkeit und Verteidigung unserer freiheitlichen Gesellschaftsordnung eintreten.
Für einen wahrhaftigen Politikwechsel hat es dennoch leider nicht gereicht. Zwar haben CDU und SPD gegenüber der Wahl von 2013 zusammen etwa 13%-Punkte verloren. Der mutige Schritt der sogenannten Mitte der Gesellschaft ist jedoch ausgeblieben. Denn weiterhin stellen die Parteien, die seit mehreren Legislaturperioden für rechtsfreie Räume mitten in Deutschland, für illegale Einwanderung, für einen währungspolitischen Offenbarungseid in Europa, für ideologische Experimente à la Energiewende oder „Ehe für alle“ verantwortlich sind, die Mehrheit im Deutschen Bundestag.
Diese Mehrheitsverhältnisse zu ändern, breite gesellschaftliche Schichten für eine verlässliche und wirklich konservative Politik zu gewinnen, wird die wichtigste Aufgabe bis 2021 sein. Dafür müssen gute programmatische Lösungen von glaubwürdigen politischen Köpfen vertreten werden, ohne dass schrille und abseitige Äußerungen einzelner Vertreter das Ansehen in der Öffentlichkeit dominieren, dabei das Vertrauen der Wähler erschüttern und auf diese Weise das politische Ziel in weite Ferne rücken lassen.
Seit geraumer Zeit wandelt sich die AfD von einer zielstrebig ausgerichteten Partei sichtbar und auch nach Aussage führender Vertreter hin zu einem „gärigen Haufen“, also einer „anarchischen“ Partei, die zwar als Oppositionspartei agieren, dem Wähler aber kein realistisches Angebot für eine baldige Regierungsübernahme machen kann. Radikale Positionierungen außerhalb des Programms beherrschen die mediale Präsenz, so dass die notwendige Verankerung der Partei in der Mitte der Gesellschaft seit 2015 nicht zu-, sondern spürbar abgenommen hat.
Dies ist deswegen so kritisch, weil ein Regierungswechsel lange vor einer Wahl strukturell vorbereitet werden muss. Außerdem ist es erforderlich, Wirtschaftsverbände und internationale Partner in eine grundlegende Erneuerung der Gesellschaft einzubinden.
Angesichts der demografischen Probleme Deutschlands, angesichts der fortgesetzten kalten Enteignung der Sparer durch die EZB und der weiterhin ungebremsten illegalen Einwanderung in unser Land möchte ich meine ganze Kraft ab sofort für diesen fundamentalen Politikwechsel einsetzen.
In einer Partei, die seit fast einem Jahr die realpolitischen Vertreter zunehmend marginalisiert, in der gemäßigte Mitglieder auf allen Ebenen diskreditiert werden, droht das einst kraftvolle politische Programm unter die Räder zu geraten. Die stille Abwanderung von seriösen Mitgliedern aus allen Parteigliederungen ist dafür ein schmerzliches Zeichen.
Da ich diesen Exodus an politischem Know-How und Personal aus meiner Position heraus nicht mehr aufhalten kann, habe ich mich nach langem Ringen entschlossen, der neu zu bildenden AfD-Fraktion im Deutschen Bundestag NICHT anzugehören. Stattdessen werde ich als Einzelabgeordnete einer vernünftigen konservativen Politik Gesicht und Stimme verleihen. Ich werde auf andere Weise aktiv dafür sorgen, dass wir spätestens 2021 die tatsächliche gesellschaftliche Wende einleiten können. Nicht die Partei allein sollte die Messlatte unseres Handelns sein, sondern die politischen Notwendigkeiten und die inhaltlichen Erwartungen unserer Wähler.
Ich bitte Sie herzlich um Verständnis für diesen schwierigen Schritt und bedanke mich nochmals bei allen, die mich innerhalb und außerhalb der AfD kritisch und konstruktiv begleitet haben.
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I do recall a push for Petry to be sidelined however long ago but never heard any follow-up. I guess this is that follow-up.
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On September 25 2017 23:44 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Has a tendency to stifle any opinion outside of a pre-established political norm upheld by the political elite. By design of course, but that's an unfortunate design. Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:35 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Not Pro-Russian enough for LL. Do you ever get tired of going around being an immature troll? Your posts are about what you could expect in quality from Yahoo news comments - neither productive nor insightful, but posted mostly just because it's necessary to say something.
This is after your bait of “After seeing EU party politics, I would rather have Trump.” Or your hype-quality posting in the US political thread of all EU posters living in large cities based on nothing.
The difference between you and me is that I’m honest about my trolling.
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What's Gauland's/Höcke's position on climate change and labor topics? Reading what Petry is writing it sounds like they could be the more reasonable of the lot.
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On September 25 2017 23:44 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Has a tendency to stifle any opinion outside of a pre-established political norm upheld by the political elite. By design of course, but that's an unfortunate design. Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:35 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Not Pro-Russian enough for LL. Do you ever get tired of going around being an immature troll? Your posts are about what you could expect in quality from Yahoo news comments - neither productive nor insightful, but posted mostly just because it's necessary to say something.
There's no one style of European system. They're very diverse. There have also been huge shifts. Think of Third way socialism, the emergence of the far right, Macron's win etc.
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On September 25 2017 23:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Has a tendency to stifle any opinion outside of a pre-established political norm upheld by the political elite. By design of course, but that's an unfortunate design. On September 25 2017 23:35 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Not Pro-Russian enough for LL. Do you ever get tired of going around being an immature troll? Your posts are about what you could expect in quality from Yahoo news comments - neither productive nor insightful, but posted mostly just because it's necessary to say something. This is after your bait of “After seeing EU party politics, I would rather have Trump.” Or your hype-quality posting in the US political thread of all EU posters living in large cities based on nothing. The difference between you and me is that I’m honest about my trolling.
Sounds mostly like you're interested in airing grudges than anything else. And as for "honest about your trolling" you are honest in the same way that Trump "says it like it is" - as an immature, childish glee about going around and starting trouble. That and it serves as a holier-than-thou "I'm shitty but it's ok because of reasons" excuse.
If you want to pretend that you're adding something useful, be my guest. But since you're a self-admitted troll, why not just knock it off and instead take a level in maturity by airing your grievances in a more productive matter? Or keep it to yourself. Or go on as you usually do; it's not like I can stop you, but fuck if I know why being deliberately unproductive appeals to you.
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On September 26 2017 00:06 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Has a tendency to stifle any opinion outside of a pre-established political norm upheld by the political elite. By design of course, but that's an unfortunate design. On September 25 2017 23:35 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Not Pro-Russian enough for LL. Do you ever get tired of going around being an immature troll? Your posts are about what you could expect in quality from Yahoo news comments - neither productive nor insightful, but posted mostly just because it's necessary to say something. There's no one style of European system. They're very diverse. There have also been huge shifts. Think of Third way socialism, the emergence of the far right, Macron's win etc.
That is true and it's one of the main problems of saying anything about "Europe" because it's quite diverse. But in this context perhaps what I should say is "Parliamentary system" which is relevant to a wide swathe of European politics.
In a parliamentary system, you elect some parties to politick it out behind the scenes and develop their own alliances. In the US system, the coalitions are pre-built and you're voting for the final result of that prebuilt coalition. Oh it certainly isn't without its problems, but choosing the lead executive is much better than letting Congress do the same.
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On September 25 2017 23:44 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Has a tendency to stifle any opinion outside of a pre-established political norm upheld by the political elite. By design of course, but that's an unfortunate design.Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 23:35 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Not Pro-Russian enough for LL. Do you ever get tired of going around being an immature troll? Your posts are about what you could expect in quality from Yahoo news comments - neither productive nor insightful, but posted mostly just because it's necessary to say something.
Yes, because we have one specific style of politics in the EU. Obvious when looking at the UK and at Portugal. Or Germany and Sweden. Even France and Italy are basically alike.
On September 25 2017 23:56 Big J wrote:
What's Gauland's/Höcke's position on climate change and labor topics? Reading what Petry is writing it sounds like they could be the more reasonable of the lot.
The party's programme states it as not man made and no problem.
+ Show Spoiler [links in German] +
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On September 26 2017 00:15 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 00:06 RvB wrote:On September 25 2017 23:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Has a tendency to stifle any opinion outside of a pre-established political norm upheld by the political elite. By design of course, but that's an unfortunate design. On September 25 2017 23:35 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Not Pro-Russian enough for LL. Do you ever get tired of going around being an immature troll? Your posts are about what you could expect in quality from Yahoo news comments - neither productive nor insightful, but posted mostly just because it's necessary to say something. There's no one style of European system. They're very diverse. There have also been huge shifts. Think of Third way socialism, the emergence of the far right, Macron's win etc. That is true and it's one of the main problems of saying anything about "Europe" because it's quite diverse. But in this context perhaps what I should say is "Parliamentary system" which is relevant to a wide swathe of European politics. In a parliamentary system, you elect some parties to politick it out behind the scenes and develop their own alliances. In the US system, the coalitions are pre-built and you're voting for the final result of that prebuilt coalition. Oh it certainly isn't without its problems, but choosing the lead executive is much better than letting Congress do the same.
The complete deadlock of the US system for the last 7 years and the current war within the Republican party kinda disproves your point.
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On September 26 2017 00:24 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 00:15 LegalLord wrote:On September 26 2017 00:06 RvB wrote:On September 25 2017 23:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Has a tendency to stifle any opinion outside of a pre-established political norm upheld by the political elite. By design of course, but that's an unfortunate design. On September 25 2017 23:35 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2017 23:29 sc-darkness wrote:On September 25 2017 22:44 LegalLord wrote:On September 25 2017 22:19 Sermokala wrote:
At least in parliament style democracy you can get your trump needs.out of your system and after a week or of everyone realising what you've done the real politicians can cone.in and say you need.another.election. After seeing and comparing both I'd say I'd rather have the Trumps than the European style party politics. What's wrong with European politics? Not Pro-Russian enough for LL. Do you ever get tired of going around being an immature troll? Your posts are about what you could expect in quality from Yahoo news comments - neither productive nor insightful, but posted mostly just because it's necessary to say something. There's no one style of European system. They're very diverse. There have also been huge shifts. Think of Third way socialism, the emergence of the far right, Macron's win etc. That is true and it's one of the main problems of saying anything about "Europe" because it's quite diverse. But in this context perhaps what I should say is "Parliamentary system" which is relevant to a wide swathe of European politics. In a parliamentary system, you elect some parties to politick it out behind the scenes and develop their own alliances. In the US system, the coalitions are pre-built and you're voting for the final result of that prebuilt coalition. Oh it certainly isn't without its problems, but choosing the lead executive is much better than letting Congress do the same. The complete deadlock of the US system for the last 7 years and the current war within the Republican party kinda disproves your point.
How so? I could see why you might say so but be more specific.
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EPT
