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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 724

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-20 22:53:54
March 20 2017 22:52 GMT
#14461
Kind of disappointed with Melenchon's positions on Europe. France is not supposed to be responsible for European nuclear deterrence and we should renegotiate cold war borders? wth

I surely don't want nuclear proliferation in Europe or anywhere else.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
March 20 2017 23:28 GMT
#14462
On March 21 2017 06:30 OtherWorld wrote:
So far, Macron sounds fake except when he gets a bit excited/aggressive, in which case he sounds less fake ; Fillon sounds tired and bored ; Hamon sounds a bit tired but serious/knowledgeable, and surprisingly ready to take the fight head-on ; Mélenchon sounds globally good, especially when attacking others, but less clear when explaining his own platform ; Le Pen sounds like an angry bartender.

Hahaha angry bartender, that's it really.

On March 21 2017 07:06 nojok wrote:
I can't stand Le Pen, pointing problems, identifying some wrong reasons for said problem, don't propose a solution.

Yeah, it's insane how demagogic she is...

On March 21 2017 07:17 maybenexttime wrote:
Economic Left/Right: -2.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

I wonder how some of the questions made it into this poll...

"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."
"When you are troubled, it's better not to think about it, but to keep busy with more cheerful things."
"Astrology accurately explains many things." (REALLY? Is that a right- or left-wing view? I have a hunch that according to the poll it's the former...)
"Some people are naturally unlucky." (Are we talking about superstitions or people being born into bad circumstances?)
"Mothers may have careers, but their first duty is to be homemakers." (I know the intention behind this question, but what if I think the same should apply to fathers?)

Yes = authoritarian right (connected to religious or conservative mindsets).

On March 21 2017 07:52 Nyxisto wrote:
Kind of disappointed with Melenchon's positions on Europe. France is not supposed to be responsible for European nuclear deterrence and we should renegotiate cold war borders? wth

I surely don't want nuclear proliferation in Europe or anywhere else.

Do you speak French fluently?
I had never heard his proposal about this “border conference,” but the goal is obviously to make sure that they're stable and don't generate (further) conflicts. I think he fears what stupid nationalist leaders could do there, hence why he doesn't want France to commit our nuclear power if troubles arise at the East.
He's against nuclear proliferation (not sure why you evoke this?).
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-21 00:20:42
March 20 2017 23:37 GMT
#14463
On March 21 2017 08:28 TheDwf wrote:
Do you speak French fluently?
I had never heard his proposal about this “border conference,” but the goal is obviously to make sure that they're stable and don't generate (further) conflicts. I think he fears what stupid nationalist leaders could do there, hence why he doesn't want France to commit our nuclear power if troubles arise at the East.
He's against nuclear proliferation (not sure why you evoke this?).


Speaking skills aren't that good any more but I can still read/listen. I just don't see how these informal systems are going to work out. With the UK leaving and French hypothetically leaving there would definitely be a call for someone else to pick up the torch in Europe.

French defense, especially nuclear deterrence and seat in the UN sec. council is a very important backbone and without it I see Europe drifting back into regionalism where everybody arms up separately. I think European defense should be one of the least controversial topics.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
March 21 2017 01:19 GMT
#14464
On March 21 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2017 08:28 TheDwf wrote:
Do you speak French fluently?
I had never heard his proposal about this “border conference,” but the goal is obviously to make sure that they're stable and don't generate (further) conflicts. I think he fears what stupid nationalist leaders could do there, hence why he doesn't want France to commit our nuclear power if troubles arise at the East.
He's against nuclear proliferation (not sure why you evoke this?).


Speaking skills aren't that good any more but I can still read/listen. I just don't see how these informal systems are going to work out. With the UK leaving and French hypothetically leaving there would definitely be a call for someone else to pick up the torch in Europe.

French defense, especially nuclear deterrence and seat in the UN sec. council is a very important backbone and without it I see Europe drifting back into regionalism where everybody arms up separately. I think European defense should be one of the least controversial topics.


And we all know who could have nukes by the end of the week, if necessary.
bardtown
Profile Joined June 2011
England2313 Posts
March 21 2017 01:50 GMT
#14465
On March 21 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2017 08:28 TheDwf wrote:
Do you speak French fluently?
I had never heard his proposal about this “border conference,” but the goal is obviously to make sure that they're stable and don't generate (further) conflicts. I think he fears what stupid nationalist leaders could do there, hence why he doesn't want France to commit our nuclear power if troubles arise at the East.
He's against nuclear proliferation (not sure why you evoke this?).


Speaking skills aren't that good any more but I can still read/listen. I just don't see how these informal systems are going to work out. With the UK leaving and French hypothetically leaving there would definitely be a call for someone else to pick up the torch in Europe.

French defense, especially nuclear deterrence and seat in the UN sec. council is a very important backbone and without it I see Europe drifting back into regionalism where everybody arms up separately. I think European defense should be one of the least controversial topics.

If France leaves it will still be in the UN security council and NATO. Same for the UK. European defence would be uncontroversial if the EU wasn't trying to militarise and undermine the very balance that has kept Europe safe.

The UK is far and away the most stalwart European country in terms of opposition to Russia and the most active in eastern Europe. That isn't changing, so when people use it as a justification for the EU army that should give you real cause for concern, because it's a lie.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
March 21 2017 03:00 GMT
#14466
I don't see why it would be controversial to formalize a unified European defense within the Union, considering we've been under the same NATO defense umbrella for over half a century. Can make it as optional as any other thing, where individual countries decide on their own accord whether they want to be part of the EU defense umbrella (which would still be part of NATO).
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-21 03:43:40
March 21 2017 03:42 GMT
#14467
On March 21 2017 10:50 bardtown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:
On March 21 2017 08:28 TheDwf wrote:
Do you speak French fluently?
I had never heard his proposal about this “border conference,” but the goal is obviously to make sure that they're stable and don't generate (further) conflicts. I think he fears what stupid nationalist leaders could do there, hence why he doesn't want France to commit our nuclear power if troubles arise at the East.
He's against nuclear proliferation (not sure why you evoke this?).


Speaking skills aren't that good any more but I can still read/listen. I just don't see how these informal systems are going to work out. With the UK leaving and French hypothetically leaving there would definitely be a call for someone else to pick up the torch in Europe.

French defense, especially nuclear deterrence and seat in the UN sec. council is a very important backbone and without it I see Europe drifting back into regionalism where everybody arms up separately. I think European defense should be one of the least controversial topics.

If France leaves it will still be in the UN security council and NATO. Same for the UK. European defence would be uncontroversial if the EU wasn't trying to militarise and undermine the very balance that has kept Europe safe.

The UK is far and away the most stalwart European country in terms of opposition to Russia and the most active in eastern Europe. That isn't changing, so when people use it as a justification for the EU army that should give you real cause for concern, because it's a lie.


In the UK you have people like Corbyn who openly want to get rid off nuclear deterrence. Admittedly Corbyn winning anything isn't exactly likely but many of the parties campaigning against EU institutions are also isolationist and have indicated that they might not be committed to universal defense of Eastern Europe (Trump) or campaign on disarmament. Many of them have ties to Russia.

I'm not saying that this is insanely likely and that it will be a problem in the next five years, but the protective umbrella we have is nothing we should take for granted. And if it goes down we might see many small countries developing these capabilities. Not to mention that there are also economic benefits to unifying European defense. We produce everything tenfold at extreme cost right now. Integrating the EU military defenses once established would pretty much also end the threat of any intra-EU conflict.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5554 Posts
March 21 2017 08:40 GMT
#14468
@TheDwf

Are you for real? If anything, believing in astrology is more typical of people with a leftist bent, at least those who were raised as atheists and did not become atheists on their own.

I fail to see how being prone to irrational thinking and believing in superstitions is in any way related to one's political views.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 21 2017 10:31 GMT
#14469
On March 21 2017 12:42 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2017 10:50 bardtown wrote:
On March 21 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:
On March 21 2017 08:28 TheDwf wrote:
Do you speak French fluently?
I had never heard his proposal about this “border conference,” but the goal is obviously to make sure that they're stable and don't generate (further) conflicts. I think he fears what stupid nationalist leaders could do there, hence why he doesn't want France to commit our nuclear power if troubles arise at the East.
He's against nuclear proliferation (not sure why you evoke this?).


Speaking skills aren't that good any more but I can still read/listen. I just don't see how these informal systems are going to work out. With the UK leaving and French hypothetically leaving there would definitely be a call for someone else to pick up the torch in Europe.

French defense, especially nuclear deterrence and seat in the UN sec. council is a very important backbone and without it I see Europe drifting back into regionalism where everybody arms up separately. I think European defense should be one of the least controversial topics.

If France leaves it will still be in the UN security council and NATO. Same for the UK. European defence would be uncontroversial if the EU wasn't trying to militarise and undermine the very balance that has kept Europe safe.

The UK is far and away the most stalwart European country in terms of opposition to Russia and the most active in eastern Europe. That isn't changing, so when people use it as a justification for the EU army that should give you real cause for concern, because it's a lie.


In the UK you have people like Corbyn who openly want to get rid off nuclear deterrence. Admittedly Corbyn winning anything isn't exactly likely but many of the parties campaigning against EU institutions are also isolationist and have indicated that they might not be committed to universal defense of Eastern Europe (Trump) or campaign on disarmament. Many of them have ties to Russia.

I'm not saying that this is insanely likely and that it will be a problem in the next five years, but the protective umbrella we have is nothing we should take for granted. And if it goes down we might see many small countries developing these capabilities. Not to mention that there are also economic benefits to unifying European defense. We produce everything tenfold at extreme cost right now. Integrating the EU military defenses once established would pretty much also end the threat of any intra-EU conflict.


Those people are mostly in the green party or the Corbyn wing of the labour party and are never going to win an election of any significance. The anti-EU people who are against NATO are the UKIP "Trumpists" e.g. Nigel Farage and Aaron Banks which have now been sidelined even from UKIP with the election of Paul Nuttel and Douglas Carswell still retaining his membership of UKIP despite Farage calling for him to be kicked out.
The majority of leavers are very pro NATO and wary of Russia I wouldn't worry about the UK abandoning eastern europe I would even say the UK is more reliable than the US at the moment.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 21 2017 11:29 GMT
#14470
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1452 Posts
March 21 2017 12:46 GMT
#14471
Don't remember what I got the last time I did the Political Compass but it was something like -7/-3. As mentioned by maybenexttime I'm not really a big fan of many of its questions, like the one astrology.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
March 21 2017 13:19 GMT
#14472
Maybe the astrology question is hidden in there as a technical one - if someone answers yes, they will provide the results page in simple terms accessible to such a simple mind.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1452 Posts
March 21 2017 13:27 GMT
#14473
I'm not a terribly big fan of left-to-right political spectrums. They work decently enough if you're just talking economic issues, but social issues and foreign policy are far too complex to be bidirectional.

This is especially true for one-issue parties like the Sinn Fein or Front National. They have a miserable and incoherent mish-mash of economic ideas, merely whatever polls well to complement the one thing they truly care about.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
March 21 2017 14:52 GMT
#14474
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-poland-eu-tusk-treason-idUKKBN16S1EK?rpc=401&
Poland's defence minister accused European Council President Donald Tusk of working with Russia's Vladimir Putin to harm Polish interests in connection with a 2010 plane crash that killed President Lech Kaczynski and 95 others in Russia.

The ministry notified the military department of the National Prosecutor's Office on Monday that it suspected Tusk, who was prime minister at the time, of an "abuse of trust in foreign relations".

A spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office confirmed the wording, which amounts to an accusation of diplomatic treason.

Defence Minister Antoni Macierewicz told the Gazeta Polska Codziennie daily on Tuesday: "Tusk made an illegal contract with Vladimir Putin to the detriment of Poland and should bear criminal responsibility for that."

The notification covers the period from April 10, 2010, when the plane crash happened in Russia's western city of Smolensk, to 2014, when Tusk took up his current post, in which he chairs summits of EU leaders.

Macierewicz alleged that before the crash, a contract to carry out maintenance in Russia on the Tu-154 plane was arranged by Tusk to be given to "a friend" of Putin.

"It's not about negligence, it is about a criminal offence," the minister said.
i know Poland didn't want him reelected but what is that?.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28665 Posts
March 21 2017 14:55 GMT
#14475
PIS government is and has been ahead of the curve regarding fake news and ridiculous conspiracies.
Moderator
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 21 2017 15:05 GMT
#14476
Speaking of which, I was meaning to ask, why exactly was PiS(s) campaigning against Tusk reelection? I thought Poles would be overjoyed to continue to have one of their countrymen at the helm of an important EU institution.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
March 21 2017 15:10 GMT
#14477
tl:dr is that he's pro EU, they arn't. Also he's part of the opposition and they accuse him of acting contrary to Poland's interest on EU level.
passive quaranstream fan
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1452 Posts
March 21 2017 15:29 GMT
#14478
I guess it's pretty much like if Michael Flynn became the head of NATO.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-21 15:47:43
March 21 2017 15:39 GMT
#14479
sorry for being late but i watched the first french debate, and i think macron just shooted a bullet in his foot when he spoke his international position, as probably the biggest atlantist since sarkozy (and even more than him, which is a feat)

he managed to say yes and no and agree and disagree at the same time with everything, but that last part was a utter fail
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 21 2017 15:44 GMT
#14480
Is there any good summary of the debate (or, alternatively, someone willing to write one)?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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