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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On March 20 2017 10:58 Incognoto wrote:Here's mine: http://imgur.com/QwNbeqaGlad I don't agree with that pig of Le Pen. Thing is though I have no idea why I'm so high with Mélechon. I hate him, he's a communist. Communism does not really correlate with progressive values, communism is just the oppression of personal freedom and personal freedom is endangered by communism/redistribution/statemicromanagement. You can be free and live in a progressive society. Funnily enough I'm from Brittany and that map at the end showed that I agreed with people in the Finistère. Good.
Congratulations on calling a candidate a pig. This truly helps building a rewarding conversation for both sides! You brought a lot to this thread, thanks.
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55% Poutou, 52% Jadot, 52% Hamon, 49% Melenchon, 47% Macron, 42% Fillon, 39% Arthaud, 30% Dupont- Aignan, 22% Le Pen.
Not surprisingly Le Pen is last for me. I think Hamon and Melenchon are so high for me because my stances on drugs (legalize), immigration (more Syrian refugees) and National security (kind of a dove on that front). Looks like I don't really belong to any party though since I don't reach more than 60% anywhere.
This thing looks kind of weird anyway. Apparently I'm a (left wing) centrist but I'm also 84% in favour of deregulation. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
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The French test has a really populist choice of questions. There are just so many questions that boil down to "are you afraid of Muslims" instead of questions on actual domestic economic policies. Maybe those are actually the topics that will decide the elections, so it just reflects how stupid the reality is?
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On March 20 2017 18:32 RvB wrote:
55% Poutou, 52% Jadot, 52% Hamon, 49% Melenchon, 47% Macron, 42% Fillon, 39% Arthaud, 30% Dupont- Aignan, 22% Le Pen.
Not surprisingly Le Pen is last for me. I think Hamon and Melenchon are so high for me because my stances on drugs (legalize), immigration (more Syrian refugees) and National security (kind of a dove on that front). Looks like I don't really belong to any party though since I don't reach more than 60% anywhere.
This thing looks kind of weird anyway. Apparently I'm a (left wing) centrist but I'm also 84% in favour of deregulation. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
55% Poutou you, hahaha, and Nyxisto with Hamon/Mélenchon first! Priceless
Yeah, this test is bad, too imprecise. Economy clearly matters not enough if a simple liberal attitude regarding social topics means that you get a far-left candidate first.
On March 20 2017 18:36 opisska wrote:
The French test has a really populist choice of questions. There are just so many questions that boil down to "are you afraid of Muslims" instead of questions on actual domestic economic policies. Maybe those are actually the topics that will decide the elections, so it just reflects how stupid the reality is?
Yeah, no idea why there's a “Muslim ban” question when even the FN isn't discussing this...
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66% for Poutou and Macron. 65% for Melenchon and Jadot. 63% Hamon. Everybody else low, with Le Pen at the bottom.
Regarding the map, I think they use IP location. I got placed somewhere near Perpignan...
Also, some questions are really dumb. More or less civil servants. In principle, obviously less. But most are probably employed for a reason, and fulfilling a role. That role still needs doing if you fire the civil servant,so it gets subcontracted. Result: more overhead for the same work....
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On March 20 2017 19:15 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 18:32 RvB wrote:
55% Poutou, 52% Jadot, 52% Hamon, 49% Melenchon, 47% Macron, 42% Fillon, 39% Arthaud, 30% Dupont- Aignan, 22% Le Pen.
Not surprisingly Le Pen is last for me. I think Hamon and Melenchon are so high for me because my stances on drugs (legalize), immigration (more Syrian refugees) and National security (kind of a dove on that front). Looks like I don't really belong to any party though since I don't reach more than 60% anywhere.
This thing looks kind of weird anyway. Apparently I'm a (left wing) centrist but I'm also 84% in favour of deregulation. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 55% Poutou you, hahaha, and Nyxisto with Hamon/Mélenchon first! Priceless Yeah, this test is bad, too imprecise. Economy clearly matters not enough if a simple liberal attitude regarding social topics means that you get a far-left candidate first. Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 18:36 opisska wrote:
The French test has a really populist choice of questions. There are just so many questions that boil down to "are you afraid of Muslims" instead of questions on actual domestic economic policies. Maybe those are actually the topics that will decide the elections, so it just reflects how stupid the reality is? Yeah, no idea why there's a “Muslim ban” question when even the FN isn't discussing this...
Muslim ban possibly because it's an American website?
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On March 20 2017 19:15 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 18:32 RvB wrote:
55% Poutou, 52% Jadot, 52% Hamon, 49% Melenchon, 47% Macron, 42% Fillon, 39% Arthaud, 30% Dupont- Aignan, 22% Le Pen.
Not surprisingly Le Pen is last for me. I think Hamon and Melenchon are so high for me because my stances on drugs (legalize), immigration (more Syrian refugees) and National security (kind of a dove on that front). Looks like I don't really belong to any party though since I don't reach more than 60% anywhere.
This thing looks kind of weird anyway. Apparently I'm a (left wing) centrist but I'm also 84% in favour of deregulation. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 55% Poutou you, hahaha, and Nyxisto with Hamon/Mélenchon first! Priceless Yeah, this test is bad, too imprecise. Economy clearly matters not enough if a simple liberal attitude regarding social topics means that you get a far-left candidate first. Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 18:36 opisska wrote:
The French test has a really populist choice of questions. There are just so many questions that boil down to "are you afraid of Muslims" instead of questions on actual domestic economic policies. Maybe those are actually the topics that will decide the elections, so it just reflects how stupid the reality is? Yeah, no idea why there's a “Muslim ban” question when even the FN isn't discussing this...
After looking him up I see that Poutou is a communist candidate lmao. This thing must be one of the least accurate tests ever.
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While the test is clearly not much of a watermark, I think there's something to be said for the discrepancy between label and actual politics playing a role in these results. Personally, I can't read "Hamon" without reading it as "hamon y queso" 
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On March 20 2017 19:41 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 19:15 TheDwf wrote:On March 20 2017 18:32 RvB wrote:
55% Poutou, 52% Jadot, 52% Hamon, 49% Melenchon, 47% Macron, 42% Fillon, 39% Arthaud, 30% Dupont- Aignan, 22% Le Pen.
Not surprisingly Le Pen is last for me. I think Hamon and Melenchon are so high for me because my stances on drugs (legalize), immigration (more Syrian refugees) and National security (kind of a dove on that front). Looks like I don't really belong to any party though since I don't reach more than 60% anywhere.
This thing looks kind of weird anyway. Apparently I'm a (left wing) centrist but I'm also 84% in favour of deregulation. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 55% Poutou you, hahaha, and Nyxisto with Hamon/Mélenchon first! Priceless Yeah, this test is bad, too imprecise. Economy clearly matters not enough if a simple liberal attitude regarding social topics means that you get a far-left candidate first. On March 20 2017 18:36 opisska wrote:
The French test has a really populist choice of questions. There are just so many questions that boil down to "are you afraid of Muslims" instead of questions on actual domestic economic policies. Maybe those are actually the topics that will decide the elections, so it just reflects how stupid the reality is? Yeah, no idea why there's a “Muslim ban” question when even the FN isn't discussing this... Muslim ban possibly because it's an American website?
Maybe, but they should use elements of the French debate to make it more realistic. But well, it's a “are you into far-right” question anyway.
On March 20 2017 19:50 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 19:15 TheDwf wrote:On March 20 2017 18:32 RvB wrote:
55% Poutou, 52% Jadot, 52% Hamon, 49% Melenchon, 47% Macron, 42% Fillon, 39% Arthaud, 30% Dupont- Aignan, 22% Le Pen.
Not surprisingly Le Pen is last for me. I think Hamon and Melenchon are so high for me because my stances on drugs (legalize), immigration (more Syrian refugees) and National security (kind of a dove on that front). Looks like I don't really belong to any party though since I don't reach more than 60% anywhere.
This thing looks kind of weird anyway. Apparently I'm a (left wing) centrist but I'm also 84% in favour of deregulation. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 55% Poutou you, hahaha, and Nyxisto with Hamon/Mélenchon first! Priceless Yeah, this test is bad, too imprecise. Economy clearly matters not enough if a simple liberal attitude regarding social topics means that you get a far-left candidate first. On March 20 2017 18:36 opisska wrote:
The French test has a really populist choice of questions. There are just so many questions that boil down to "are you afraid of Muslims" instead of questions on actual domestic economic policies. Maybe those are actually the topics that will decide the elections, so it just reflects how stupid the reality is? Yeah, no idea why there's a “Muslim ban” question when even the FN isn't discussing this... After looking him up I see that Poutou is a communist candidate lmao. This thing must be one of the least accurate tests ever.
Well, it's just that the test labels you as “socially liberal” like him, so embrace your trotskyist inner self!
In a serious test you should get Macron first. Same for Nyxisto.
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That survey isn't based on French politics. The questions are the same for every country.
On March 20 2017 11:05 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 10:10 warding wrote:On March 20 2017 09:29 LegalLord wrote:On March 19 2017 20:11 warding wrote:
It's fashionable to say that the EU is deeply flawed but I don't remember anyone here making a clear, substantiated argument for that being the case. I made this post a while back which got buried before a more interesting post right after mine. For all intents and purposes the forces of nationalism are probably among the most significant threat to the life of the EU. An economic argument against the EU is harder to make, of course, but it does exist. I know you're convinced of the robustness of your nationalism>EU argument but apart from Brexit I just don't see it elsewhere. I'd be more inclined to hear about specific policy aspects of the EU whose negatives significantly outweigh the positives. Nationalism is important. Sure, countries may be able to set it aside for a time in order to pursue something beneficial to them. They will be very happy to do so despite nationalism if they get as much free money as, say, Poland. But at the end of the day, every European nation has its own national history and national goals that are not so easily forgotten. They have and will continue to flare up as the convenience of the moment dissipates and sooner or later it is likely that they will tear the union apart. There are many historical examples of superstates and most of them don't have a long lifespan. Though that's definitely not everything I focused on in that earlier post. I stick to the nationalism argument more so than most simply because it's the most universal reason. For example, it's an underappreciated fact that although the same pattern of populists movements is visible across the lands of Europe, the character of these movements is very different. UKIP isn't much like FN isn't much like Syriza isn't much like PiS isn't much like Five Star... and so on. Everyone wants something different and is unhappy for different reasons. And while you could probably rule by consensus in a smaller alliance of a few well-developed West European nations, once you go out and double the size of the union it starts to be far too diverse for its own good. From nationalism stem a lot of the other issues. Paralysis by a lack of consensus is an age-old story that dogs the EU through every crisis so far. Dealing with the Ukraine issue? Going to have to deal with the full spectrum of opinions on Russia throughout the EU and consider how willing everyone is to take the biggest country in Europe (with corruption and fascism and god knows what else) as another liability. Greece? Well I guess it's technically small enough that you could bury it for however long, but there's the issue of how unwilling certain nations are to budge on austerity while others realize that there is no way that Greece is going to austerity its way out of the debt. Refugees? Another utterly confused consensus, worse than the others because this is supposed to be something that the EU is actually good at. I could and did consider some of the other issues. Freedom of movement has the problem that you can't control migration and while it's good for talented people to be able to move around, you lose a lot of control with free movement. Free trade has seen a downward trend in support over the past few years and that's a lot of what the EU actually is. A common currency also leads to a cascading failure when even some tiny economy like Greece goes down the shitter. Though on the other hand, those shitty countries can't control their monetary policy and are stuck with a currency that doesn't do them a whole lot of good. And migration does tend to be quite unidirectional in the case of worse-developed country citizens moving to more-developed countries. You also have an everlasting push for an ever-closer union that hardly allows dissent. Choose not to ratify the Lisbon Treaty a la Ireland? Well vote again because that was the wrong answer. Sure, the second one had slightly higher turnout, but there certainly would not have been two votes had the right answer been chosen the first time (and I know at least a few people who voted "no" once then didn't vote a second time because they saw it for what it was). Any problem that arises within the union? Well it's because Europe doesn't have enough power. Hell, I even heard of some fuckers trying to convince France/UK to give their UNSC permanent seat to the EU. But ultimately I focus on the nationalism issue because it's the most universal and most damning. Superstates don't seem to work well as a unified entity, not for long. While we would like to believe that we can reach some sort of end of history and put those issues aside, we aren't even close to the point where we could actually do that. Brexit was of course just the exit of a single country, one of those that is most critical of the EU in its current form. It won't be the last. The EU might enjoy a rather stable 2017 if it's lucky (and it might not) but all of the aforementioned crises are buried rather than resolved, and it adds new ones every once in a while. In its current form it will not survive, and it's not clear that it can reform into a form that will. Personally I think what is going to kill it is that it grew too big and in doing so ensured its own downfall.
I think it'd be great if we could decide on what could constitute deep flaws with the EU. The definition I propose are policies or aspects of the EU whose negatives significantly outweigh the positives. Your post brings up three issues: nationalism will cause the EU to end; there is paralysis in decision making due to the need for consensus; the EU pressures individual countries toward giving it more power.
Your thesis on nationalism is rests on an unprovable determinism: superstates don't work well and don't last long. Which ones do you have in mind? The Roman Empire? The Ottoman Empire? The Holy Roman Empire? Spain? Italy? Germany? Most examples I can think of have lasted for centuries upon centuries. I can't see the value in your argument because it looks like a matter of personal preference and I do not see the same deterministic tendencies you do. I can easily conjure up opposite deterministic reasons as to why nationalism will not be a problem while using Brexit as my prime example. UKIP politicians lived on building up resentment towards the EU and winning the referendum was their undoing - their vote seems to have flocked back to the Tories. For nationalists, succeeding is political suicide. That's what happens with extreme-left parties in Portugal, they can only survive as extremist forces with no coherent program for governance. They've consistently polled around 20% but never have they gone upwards of 25%. Actually governing would be their undoing as their programs are simply not practical. Politicians in these protest parties, therefore, actually want to stay in the 20-25% band which guarantees safe jobs and protagonism for themselves. Anything upwards of that would be flying too close to the sun.
The paralysis argument doesn't make sense to me as an example of a deep flaw in the EU. That happens when the question is whether the EU should do something more than defined by the treaties and there is disagreement among member states. If anything it is an argument against more EU intervention in those spaces, as consensus can't be built, rather than an argument about the current roles of the union.
The currency union, freedom of movement of people and the single market are all measures with positives that far outweigh the negatives and that have broad public support in the EU.
Whether the EU should have more power or not is a debate worth having. Does the EU practice pressure on individual countries? Yes. Should it? Debatable. Looking at policy and outcomes, Ireland is probably the country in the EU that most benefits from the union. I see no case for any country that so far has not benefited from further participation in/growth of the EU.
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The questions are absolutely not the same for every country lol, did you even take it? The problem is that they seem written by Americans who read L'Express and then think they know enough to properly frame questions
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On March 20 2017 20:10 farvacola wrote:The questions are absolutely not the same for every country lol, did you even take it? The problem is that they seem written by Americans who read L'Express and then think they know enough to properly frame questions
I took the German poll and the site basically pre-filled the same questions I had taken from France. :|
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Ok well the American and French tests were significantly different, which is why I think it's more likely that the test simply suffers from the typical problem of Americans trying to talk about things they don't quite understand well enough. That may also account for the similarities between the German and French tests.
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The funny thing is that the German quiz put me right next to Poland on the map, as close to my hometown as possible. 
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On March 20 2017 20:20 maybenexttime wrote:The funny thing is that the German quiz put me right next to Poland on the map, as close to my hometown as possible.
As I said, given these results from multiple people, I am quite confident it uses IP-based location. If that is indeed the case, someone with a VPN could test it. And if it's indeed the case, it's incredibly misleading. It basically uses your location to reinforce your trust in the site. It makes you believe the evaluation of the site by making you think that it can accurately guess your location based on your answers, whereas it is accurately guessing your location based on your IP's location...
Further anecdotal evidence: I did the one for Germany and it placed me in spitting distance of the French and Swiss borders... about as close to Barcelona as you can get in Germany.
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On March 20 2017 19:53 farvacola wrote:While the test is clearly not much of a watermark, I think there's something to be said for the discrepancy between label and actual politics playing a role in these results. Personally, I can't read "Hamon" without reading it as "hamon y queso"
Sure but whenever I do such a test I always get the economically right wing and the social liberal parties high up and the hardcore left somewhere far down. It pretty much aligns with what I think of myself. Yet with this test I get a communist and 2 far left candidates very far up.
On March 20 2017 19:54 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 19:41 Artisreal wrote:On March 20 2017 19:15 TheDwf wrote:On March 20 2017 18:32 RvB wrote:
55% Poutou, 52% Jadot, 52% Hamon, 49% Melenchon, 47% Macron, 42% Fillon, 39% Arthaud, 30% Dupont- Aignan, 22% Le Pen.
Not surprisingly Le Pen is last for me. I think Hamon and Melenchon are so high for me because my stances on drugs (legalize), immigration (more Syrian refugees) and National security (kind of a dove on that front). Looks like I don't really belong to any party though since I don't reach more than 60% anywhere.
This thing looks kind of weird anyway. Apparently I'm a (left wing) centrist but I'm also 84% in favour of deregulation. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 55% Poutou you, hahaha, and Nyxisto with Hamon/Mélenchon first! Priceless Yeah, this test is bad, too imprecise. Economy clearly matters not enough if a simple liberal attitude regarding social topics means that you get a far-left candidate first. On March 20 2017 18:36 opisska wrote:
The French test has a really populist choice of questions. There are just so many questions that boil down to "are you afraid of Muslims" instead of questions on actual domestic economic policies. Maybe those are actually the topics that will decide the elections, so it just reflects how stupid the reality is? Yeah, no idea why there's a “Muslim ban” question when even the FN isn't discussing this... Muslim ban possibly because it's an American website? Maybe, but they should use elements of the French debate to make it more realistic. But well, it's a “are you into far-right” question anyway. Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 19:50 RvB wrote:On March 20 2017 19:15 TheDwf wrote:On March 20 2017 18:32 RvB wrote:
55% Poutou, 52% Jadot, 52% Hamon, 49% Melenchon, 47% Macron, 42% Fillon, 39% Arthaud, 30% Dupont- Aignan, 22% Le Pen.
Not surprisingly Le Pen is last for me. I think Hamon and Melenchon are so high for me because my stances on drugs (legalize), immigration (more Syrian refugees) and National security (kind of a dove on that front). Looks like I don't really belong to any party though since I don't reach more than 60% anywhere.
This thing looks kind of weird anyway. Apparently I'm a (left wing) centrist but I'm also 84% in favour of deregulation. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 55% Poutou you, hahaha, and Nyxisto with Hamon/Mélenchon first! Priceless Yeah, this test is bad, too imprecise. Economy clearly matters not enough if a simple liberal attitude regarding social topics means that you get a far-left candidate first. On March 20 2017 18:36 opisska wrote:
The French test has a really populist choice of questions. There are just so many questions that boil down to "are you afraid of Muslims" instead of questions on actual domestic economic policies. Maybe those are actually the topics that will decide the elections, so it just reflects how stupid the reality is? Yeah, no idea why there's a “Muslim ban” question when even the FN isn't discussing this... After looking him up I see that Poutou is a communist candidate lmao. This thing must be one of the least accurate tests ever. Well, it's just that the test labels you as “socially liberal” like him, so embrace your trotskyist inner self! In a serious test you should get Macron first. Same for Nyxisto.
yeh Macron looks like the one I'd vote for. Economically I'd be more like Fillon but with the recent scandal and all I wouldn't vote for such a scumbag.
That makes more sense to me. It places me at right wing libertarian. Some questions are pretty weird though.
If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations.
This one for example makes it look like globalisation is a trade-off between serving the interests humanity or trans-national corporations. I think it mostly (but not always of course) benefits both humanity and multinationals.
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Took that test a few years ago. Though it claims to be for all democracies, the oddity of some of the questions suggest an Americocentric bias. I rather dislike how they define left and right as a byword for a mishmash of economical protectionism/regulation or economical liberalism/freetrade .
Anyhow, the result is that out that I am very strongly Libertarian and economically right in the middle, which I already know, but it's interesting to know that 10 years ago I leant towards the right.
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On March 20 2017 17:25 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 10:58 Incognoto wrote:Here's mine: http://imgur.com/QwNbeqaGlad I don't agree with that pig of Le Pen. Thing is though I have no idea why I'm so high with Mélechon. I hate him, he's a communist. Communism does not really correlate with progressive values, communism is just the oppression of personal freedom and personal freedom is endangered by communism/redistribution/statemicromanagement. You can be free and live in a progressive society. Funnily enough I'm from Brittany and that map at the end showed that I agreed with people in the Finistère. Good. Congratulations on calling a candidate a pig. This truly helps building a rewarding conversation for both sides! You brought a lot to this thread, thanks.
You're welcome. I'll call out anyone who is spreading hate (vs Muslims, vs EU). Anyone who seeks to embrace peoples' fears for political gain is a twat. Her economic policies are also communist. State micromanagement, penalties to anyone who steps out of line or who doesn't fit the mold of the ideal French cerf. Fuck that shit.
Glad I live in the USA. There are a gazillion problems here but at very least personal freedom is properly respected here. If the USA could be nudged a bit more to the left (with more socialized protection for its citizens) and the Europe nudged a bit more to the right (more economic and personal freedom for its citizens and corporations, less costly (more efficient) public service sectors, with a crackdown on corruption and tax evasion) then I believe both would be in a much better state. Alas, it's never so easy.
USA and EU remain the best when it comes to actual democratic values I guess. Canada too no doubt. So there's that. But then you have twats like Le Pen or Trump who threaten these values we've worked so hard towards. So they're twats. I'm sorry to pigs, who are good, faithful and delicious animals. Shouldn't have made the comparison.
Edit: Political compass test results for me are :
Economic Left/Right: -2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
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yeah I get massively libertarian left as expected. I'm not sure what they mean by strongly in this, cause some of the question have answers that I believe are objectively correct, but I don't feel super strongly about them cause I don't believe they are extremely important in the grand scheme of things, so I don't know if I'm "strongly" because I very much believe it's true or not strongly because it's not an issue that I feel super concerned about.
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EPT
