• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:42
CEST 02:42
KST 09:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202552RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams7Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 677 users

European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 696

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 694 695 696 697 698 1413 Next
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21666 Posts
March 06 2017 11:15 GMT
#13901
On March 06 2017 16:47 Acrofales wrote:
Just like Germany, the Dutch government has also denied the Turkish government the right to campaign in the Netherlands. I'm not quite sure where I stand on the issue. On the one hand, I think it's undesirable to have another country's political campaign being held in your country, especially if you can't guarantee impartiality. On the other hand, the doesn't seem to be any legal way to discriminate against political campaigning as opposed to giving a talk. Based on what is his entry being denied? How far can the Dutch/German government go to deny them from of speech?

I guess a big part of it is the large Turkish communities in Germany and the Netherlands and the unrest that Erdogan is trying to create in those communities between Erdogan/Gulen supporters and between Trukey and the EU in general.


It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7888 Posts
March 06 2017 12:08 GMT
#13902
On March 06 2017 19:23 Zaros wrote:
Sarkozy's plan has worked then, leak the details about Fillon's wife and then replace him when his candidacy crashes and burns.

Sarkozy has so many scandals surrounding him, most of them much more serious than the Oenelope Fillon affaire, that it's extremely unlikely LR chose him if they manage to convince him to give up.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
March 06 2017 19:03 GMT
#13903
The UMP/LR Politburo unanimously confirmed that they were behind Fillon...
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6209 Posts
March 06 2017 19:48 GMT
#13904
They don't really have an alternative do they? Still pretty pathetic.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1451 Posts
March 06 2017 19:53 GMT
#13905
Sounds like Sarkozy is gearing up to take Fillon's place.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-06 19:54:17
March 06 2017 19:53 GMT
#13906
On March 07 2017 04:53 LightSpectra wrote:
Sounds like Sarkozy is gearing up to take Fillon's place.

Not sure if better...
Also Fillon probably gives zero fucks.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
March 06 2017 20:10 GMT
#13907
On March 07 2017 04:48 RvB wrote:
They don't really have an alternative do they? Still pretty pathetic.

They could have tried to convince Fillon to pass the torch to someone else's, as long as it was done with Fillon's agreement it would have been OK; and there were times where he clearly hesitated, but those fools were too stupid and too divided to seize the opportunity. But they had more than one month to prepare something anyway, and they never bothered to seriously try to build a plan B.

I can't wait for their debacle in the evening of April 23th. Sadly their base is full of radicalized 60+ years imbeciles who think that this whole case is a machiavellian plot to bring down their great savior, so they have no chance of going under a certain percentage... Hopefully they end up fourth for the supreme humiliation, but this country makes so little sense that Fillon might still randomly win. In 10-15 years this generation which condones corrupt crooks will be gone, so by that time maybe we'll actually get a decent atmosphere in our political life.

On March 07 2017 04:53 LightSpectra wrote:
Sounds like Sarkozy is gearing up to take Fillon's place.

No no, not a chance. Sarkozy is out.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7888 Posts
March 06 2017 22:04 GMT
#13908
On March 07 2017 04:53 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2017 04:53 LightSpectra wrote:
Sounds like Sarkozy is gearing up to take Fillon's place.

Not sure if better...
Also Fillon probably gives zero fucks.

Sarkozy's scandals dwarf Fillon's pretty bad. They involve bribery, corruption, campaign shadowy financing etc.. It would really be replacing a chicken thief by a mafia boss to put Sarkozy instead of him.

Juppé said he would not be candidate anyway. So LR is pretty much screwed. Those people are good, they could have nominated a goat and won pretty easily. Three left wing candidates, a government at 15% positive opinions, and they screw it up. Respect.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 06 2017 22:23 GMT
#13909
Is it the apparent hypocrisy that makes Fillon's scandal so bad? Because honestly taking a few extra people on payroll for doing nothing is almost trivial from a corruption perspective.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
March 06 2017 22:31 GMT
#13910
900k € enrichment on public costs is trivial indeed.
Possibly by your standards.
passive quaranstream fan
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 06 2017 22:36 GMT
#13911
Yeah, a million stolen over a career as a politician isn't really that bad.

Our Democratic candidate for president here in the US earned that in a single speech to our finance industry.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7888 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-06 22:38:41
March 06 2017 22:36 GMT
#13912
On March 07 2017 07:23 LegalLord wrote:
Is it the apparent hypocrisy that makes Fillon's scandal so bad? Because honestly taking a few extra people on payroll for doing nothing is almost trivial from a corruption perspective.

Well, he built all his image on probity and honesty, going on TV saying that there should be more coverage about politicians being dishonest, and so on and so on. Sarkozy is a gangster, but people forgive him a bit more because he rfeally has never really denied it.

Also people get more pissed by someone being caught like that, just stealing "pocket money", than by complex political scandals that are hard to prove and hard to explain.

Ok, Sarkozy was involved in the financing of a political campaign of Balladur with retro comissions on a submarine sell from corrupt Pakistanese officials who blew up a bus full of frenchies when they didn't get the money they had been promised because the election was lost. That's complicated, and gets more complicated when you start looking into it. It's also fucking terrible, involve rigging the election process and loss of french lives. But still, it's very, very complex.

Fillon was employing his whole family for not doing anything with YOUR money and stole the equivalent of a lifetime on minimal wage. Well, when you are on minimal wage and the guy has been bullshitting you for ten years saying he was the embodiement of honesty, that pisses you off more than obscure stories of pakistanese submarines.

TL;DR: small easy to understand, perfectly proven scandal makes more damage than complex, shadowy high level corruption.

EDIT: also, I would have loved to see the shitstorm if Clinton had employed her daughter for 1M$ on a bullshit job. You would be talking about it with GH and xDaunt for the next ten years. Admit.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 06 2017 22:43 GMT
#13913
I didn't talk about CF, so I'm pretty sure I wouldn't talk about that either. Besides, there's much more money in the US to be made from leveraging political contacts in the private sector than on a government payroll, which Chelsea did do.

Sounds like we are more or less in agreement on why the Fillon matter hurts as it does. Honestly I've seen much worse so I doubt I'd care if I thought his policy proposals were solid.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 03:22:06
March 07 2017 03:13 GMT
#13914
Fillon looks like he might bounce back though.

This is typical left-wing magistrates who are corrupt, looking for dirt on a candidate they don't like. Anyone who thinks that Fillon is somehow worse than the shit-tards to the left or to the right of him are delusional. They're all corrupt shits but you may as well put one in power who will kick things into action.

I don't know about Macro though, he might be legitimate as well, depends on what his policies are. I'm having a hard time following this debate.

On February 22 2017 23:06 MyTHicaL wrote:


Mélenchon is a boss ;o.



Lmao, what a shit-fest

Le Pen's a pig but mélen-con is in a class of his own as well

edit: "cette femme va parler comme un moulin pendant combien de temps" lol melechon you little piece of shit. i hate le pen myself but you don't attack her for being a woman lol
maru lover forever
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 07 2017 06:05 GMT
#13915
Fillon is just one harsh criticism of Macron away from being in the runoffs.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6209 Posts
March 07 2017 08:46 GMT
#13916
On March 07 2017 07:36 LegalLord wrote:
Yeah, a million stolen over a career as a politician isn't really that bad.

Our Democratic candidate for president here in the US earned that in a single speech to our finance industry.

It is bad. The fact that you think of it as not really that bad just shows that the battle against corruption is far from over even in the western world.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 10:01:56
March 07 2017 09:57 GMT
#13917
Yeah, a million stolen over a career as a politician isn't really that bad.
i think that is a very common view in (ex-)socialist countries. as far as i can tell, it comes from the idea that one is <entitled to things> for doing a <good job>.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11822 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 10:21:20
March 07 2017 10:11 GMT
#13918
On March 07 2017 18:57 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
Yeah, a million stolen over a career as a politician isn't really that bad.
i think that is a very common view in (ex-)socialist countries. as far as i can tell, it comes from the idea that one is <entitled to things> for doing a <good job>.

It is a general thing in most human societies. If you make a billion dollar deal for your company you might expect to get promoted or at the minimum get a big bonus. That isn't a socialist thing, that happens in a capitalistic society as well.

The reward you expect might not always be monetary, it could be standing and compliments or other things you value. You do expect something when you do a good job. Which is why feedback is so important, especially positive ones which are hard to do without training for most people.

The reward (and punishment) system should be in place so you don't want to steal stuff. It doesn't have to be monetary rewards if you can find something else that people value. Perhaps good presidents get their statue added in a famous place based on a parliament order after their term. I don't really have good suggestions.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
March 07 2017 10:39 GMT
#13919
On March 07 2017 07:23 LegalLord wrote:
Is it the apparent hypocrisy that makes Fillon's scandal so bad? Because honestly taking a few extra people on payroll for doing nothing is almost trivial from a corruption perspective.

The hypocrisy, his own words/promises, and his program. He's basically asking for huge sacrifices from the population, yet it happens that the same guy (very likely) stole a million of euros from public funds to put them into his pocket... unacceptable. You can't be a thief and simultaneously demand that people work more without being paid more (that's his program). On top of that, he repeated like half a dozen times that he would not be candidate if he was indicted. Plus he has documented connections to the business of private insurance and initially wanted to privatize the Social security, so there are suspicions of traffic of influence as well.

His story is a bit like the second Batman: the guy basically played the white knight, then it turns out that he's actually Two-Face. Add the populist zeitgeist and the fact that French people are globally fed up with their incompetent politicians, plus the fact that this kind of behaviour is less and less tolerated, and you get the scandal. It was initially thought that the winner of the UMP/LR primary would (nearly) automatically be the next president... then this happened.

(There's also the fact that medias love this kind of drama with twists, cliff hangers and whatnot...)

On March 07 2017 07:36 LegalLord wrote:
Yeah, a million stolen over a career as a politician isn't really that bad.

Our Democratic candidate for president here in the US earned that in a single speech to our finance industry.

Yeah, but the US political life is a system of institutionnalized corruption. In France if you're perceived as too close to big business, you're immediately frowned upon. Sarkozy's image was demolished because of his proximity to big business and his obvious love for money. Both Fillon and Macron have been and will be attacked on their connections to the oligarchy.

The standards for what's acceptable/game-ending or not differ from country to country anyway. In most European countries, I bet that Fillon would be gone in a matter of days after the initial revelations. But the French right is a pile of filth.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-07 11:00:01
March 07 2017 10:56 GMT
#13920
On March 07 2017 19:11 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2017 18:57 xM(Z wrote:
Yeah, a million stolen over a career as a politician isn't really that bad.
i think that is a very common view in (ex-)socialist countries. as far as i can tell, it comes from the idea that one is <entitled to things> for doing a <good job>.

It is a general thing in most human societies. If you make a billion dollar deal for your company you might expect to get promoted or at the minimum get a big bonus. That isn't a socialist thing, that happens in a capitalistic society as well.

The reward you expect might not always be monetary, it could be standing and compliments or other things you value. You do expect something when you do a good job. Which is why feedback is so important, especially positive ones which are hard to do without training for most people.

The reward (and punishment) system should be in place so you don't want to steal stuff. It doesn't have to be monetary rewards if you can find something else that people value. Perhaps good presidents get their statue added in a famous place based on a parliament order after their term. I don't really have good suggestions.
what you said is based on a legal+moral(worth) framework and it's not the same thing; in a company there are clear owners and clear beneficiaries.

my example was touching on - rewarding politicians with state money without a legal framework, often without a prof of worth and without a limit or an obfuscated(under don't ask don't tell policy) one.
it's like a bartering blindfolded with someone else's money.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Prev 1 694 695 696 697 698 1413 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 18m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 224
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 59
Sexy 54
NaDa 45
ivOry 16
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1295
League of Legends
Dendi933
JimRising 322
syndereN155
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe300
Other Games
summit1g12246
tarik_tv7388
Day[9].tv769
shahzam634
ViBE247
C9.Mang0230
ToD155
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 115
• davetesta51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 29
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv769
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
10h 18m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
13h 18m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 9h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 13h
CSO Cup
1d 15h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 17h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.