EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 473
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On May 31 2016 04:16 Toadesstern wrote: You are combining two separate quotes into one statement. (Media does this all the time, of course.)read the statement that I linked. He IS talking about being the representative of people who think that way. The sentence "People cheer for Boateng when he wears the jersey, but would not want him as a neighbor" is the one they jumped on. And that is sadly a very true statement. Real estate values do not drop around refugee hostels magically. They drop because demand dropped, because less people are interested in having refugees as neighbors! Same with blacks or turks or gypsy or russian or anybody 'foreign'. On May 31 2016 04:18 hfglgg wrote: That has to be the weakest answer I can think of. nope, this time he is completely factually wrong. he talked about the "cultural alien" and then gave boateng as an example. [...]he is as german as it gets. "I don't like blacks around me." "But he is only half black!" Wow, way to miss the point. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
So apparently 18 complaints have been filed thus far. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 01 2016 04:56 opisska wrote: 163 people dead in 2.5 years. Over which area does your statistic go? Even if that was just EU, we have half a billion people, meaning that at least 15 milion people died here from other causes during 2.5 years. The number of terrorist victims is laughably small and all the money that goes to "security" would have saved orders of magnitude more lives if put into almost anything more useful such as healthcare or road safety. Again, I don't know what is the exact interpretation of your number, but EU seems conservative. That means that you have a 1 in 100,000 chance to die in a terrorist attack if you lived here for your whole life. There are probably hundreds of things that you would consider totally laughable to be worried about that have a larger chance to kill you. 1. It's over 500 people whose lives have been directly changed through terrorism in France alone. Why are you saying EU? I didn't include the EU figures and totals. 2. Your EU governments are actively trying to suppress information of violence, rapes, and just how bad they've let things get in some areas. There's multiple stories of suppressing "bad" news about minorities in France, UK, Germany, and Sweden. It stems from politicians, the police forces and the media. 3. Without some level of pressure on the Brussels attackers, the violence would have been far worse. Their intended target was actually a nuclear facility that they may or may not have had access to. I forget the initial reports but when their target is a nuclear reactor to cause as much damage as possible that would have been catastrophic. Even if the report I was on this was false or rumour, the point still stands that without security these violent acts would have been far more destructive. So with all these arrests made, weapons seized due to spending $ on security, I'd argue that it is most definitely worth the cost. Out of the 230+ arrested in France under their state of emergency, how many would have caused massive damage? 0? 10? It didn't take many to change nearly half a thousand lives in France alone. There were at least 64 imams / preachers dispelled from the country because of preaching violent rhetoric. If they were allowed to continue, how long until the next inspired attackers? I argue that the world is still very much at war in many ways, even if it's not as overt as it used to be. And these security forces are needed. The western world does not need a fraction of what is below. A percent of your population constantly feeling aggrieved enough to shout Allahu Akbar and take as many as they can with them. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30 | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Well, there are active terrorist groups within the border, concentrated in the Caucasus region. Around the time of just about every major event, there are reports of attempted terrorist attacks that were prevented, all around the country. There would be far more of them if the police and intelligence agencies took a lax approach to anti-terror. The Muslim migration in France poses a similar threat and definitely warrants added security. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
the regular police force and regular spy agencies knew about (some of)the terrorists. the "anti-terrorism" unit of w/e did nothing to actually help. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On June 01 2016 04:37 DickMcFanny wrote: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-sexual-assault-music-festival-cologne-darmstadt-a7057416.html So apparently 18 complaints have been filed thus far. Expect either a "there is no problem", or "that's normal-ish", or another apology of sorts. Clearly there isn't a problem in germany with the majority of asylum seekers not giving a shit about our laws or "ways of life" where women aren't free for all. Remember, there were idiots trying to paint new years eve here as "normal" or "blown out of proportion". 18 kids (they're between 15 and 18 years old) going to the police for being sexually attacked is peanuts. Obviously. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On June 01 2016 05:13 SK.Testie wrote: Cont from US thread: 1. It's over 500 people whose lives have been directly changed through terrorism in France alone. Why are you saying EU? I didn't include the EU figures and totals. 2. Your EU governments are actively trying to suppress information of violence, rapes, and just how bad they've let things get in some areas. There's multiple stories of suppressing "bad" news about minorities in France, UK, Germany, and Sweden. It stems from politicians, the police forces and the media. 3. Without some level of pressure on the Brussels attackers, the violence would have been far worse. Their intended target was actually a nuclear facility that they may or may not have had access to. I forget the initial reports but when their target is a nuclear reactor to cause as much damage as possible that would have been catastrophic. Even if the report I was on this was false or rumour, the point still stands that without security these violent acts would have been far more destructive. So with all these arrests made, weapons seized due to spending $ on security, I'd argue that it is most definitely worth the cost. Out of the 230+ arrested in France under their state of emergency, how many would have caused massive damage? 0? 10? It didn't take many to change nearly half a thousand lives in France alone. There were at least 64 imams / preachers dispelled from the country because of preaching violent rhetoric. If they were allowed to continue, how long until the next inspired attackers? I argue that the world is still very much at war in many ways, even if it's not as overt as it used to be. And these security forces are needed. The western world does not need a fraction of what is below. A percent of your population constantly feeling aggrieved enough to shout Allahu Akbar and take as many as they can with them. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30 ad 1) As I said, you haven't put a clarification to that number. I think operating with "lives changed" is a stretch, do we know how much of these injuries were serious? Even if the number is France only, still the "danger" of death by terrorism is just 1:10000 and my point stands - it's not anywhere near the main causes of death and the amount of attention it gets is hugely disproportional. ad 2) Do you have unbiased and reliable sources for these claims? I hear those a lot, but the vast majority turns out to be completely made up propaganda. For example people who live in the supposed "no-go zones" don't even know about them ... The "rape increase in Sweden" theory has been also dispelled for example. In my country, actually the opposite happens - where journalists are being pressured by their superiors to report negatively on refugees and to distort reality so that refugees look bad, it's a pretty big story this week. ad 3) Do you have any idea how hard it is to cause any issues with a modern nuclear power station (assuming that was the supposed target)? I am a pretty big fan of nuclear energy, know a lot about internal workings of those, even have visited an active power station and walked around the reactor hall. Still, I have absolutely zero idea how to cause major incidents in there. Not only the security is insanely tight (even the workers are required to strip naked before entering the controlled area), but also there is very little to achieve without massive resources. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions just because the story has "nuclear" in it. The fact that 330 people were put under house arrest doesn't say these are potential terrorist. A security agency can easily point fingers at anyone they wish under these circumstances. That's the very core of the issue why I have problems with the "state of emergency". 2235 searches for just 334 guns is also alarming, that basically means that at least 2000 searches were done to find nothing. That is a huge invasion of personal freedoms. Honestly, at this point, I am more afraid that my life will be ruined by the uncontrolled state powers framing me because of my public pro-refugee stances than by any actual terrorist. | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
On June 01 2016 05:29 m4ini wrote: Expect either a "there is no problem", or "that's normal-ish", or another apology of sorts. Clearly there isn't a problem in germany with the majority of asylum seekers not giving a shit about our laws or "ways of life" where women aren't free for all. Remember, there were idiots trying to paint new years eve here as "normal" or "blown out of proportion". 18 kids (they're between 15 and 18 years old) going to the police for being sexually attacked is peanuts. Obviously. Pretty much what i was thinking. Now i'm just waiting for certain liberals on this forum to post and jump to the attackers defense, or make some bullshit excuse. | ||
zatic
Zurich15365 Posts
On June 01 2016 05:42 Reaps wrote: Pretty much what i was thinking. Now i'm just waiting for certain liberals on this forum to post and jump to the attackers defense, or make some bullshit excuse. I don't think you'll find anyone on this forum who will defend people like this. Or excuse behavior like this. As one of your certain liberals I am personally just happy that two of the five suspects are already caught. But I am also not sure why this is even news worthy. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On June 01 2016 07:42 zatic wrote: I don't think you'll find anyone on this forum who will defend people like this. Or excuse behavior like this. As one of your certain liberals I am personally just happy that two of the five suspects are already caught. But I am also not sure why this is even news worthy. News worthy not as in 'this is a surprising development', I agree. But newsworthy as in 'Okay Germany, this is the new normal, better get used to it'. | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
On June 01 2016 07:42 zatic wrote: I don't think you'll find anyone on this forum who will defend people like this. Or excuse behavior like this. As one of your certain liberals I am personally just happy that two of the five suspects are already caught. But I am also not sure why this is even news worthy. You would actually be surprised at what some people on here feel when it comes to stuff like this, you're not one of them however, i was not talking about you. As for this being new worthy i don't see why it shouldn't be, it was a large scale sexual assault which brought back cologne memories for a lot of people. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On June 01 2016 07:56 Reaps wrote: You would actually be surprised at what some people on here feel when it comes to stuff like this, you're not one of them however, i was not talking about you. As for this being new worthy i don't see why it shouldn't be, it was a large scale sexual assault which brought back cologne memories for a lot of people. Someone called this 'the soft racism of low expectations'. Zatic doesn't consider this newsworthy because he expects this to happen. He is realistic about the fact that in many Muslim cultures, sexual violence against women isn't considered a crime (or even morally wrong), and he is also realistic about the fact that our, German, integration system is too fucked up to prevent this from happening. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 01 2016 05:30 opisska wrote: It's not anywhere near the main causes of death and the amount of attention it gets is hugely disproportional. The natives feel that it is a form of death that should not be in their countries in the first place. The people who inherited the country from their fathers and mothers. ad 2) Do you have unbiased and reliable sources for these claims? I hear those a lot, but the vast majority turns out to be completely made up propaganda. For example people who live in the supposed "no-go zones" don't even know about them ... The "rape increase in Sweden" theory has been also dispelled for example. In my country, actually the opposite happens - where journalists are being pressured by their superiors to report negatively on refugees and to distort reality so that refugees look bad, it's a pretty big story this week. I'm unsure of which ones that have been debunked. I have plenty of articles but there's real proof in cases like Rotherham (unrelated to Migrants) but shows that the police were scared to act for being branded racist. The result was well over 1400 abused children because of it. Not to mention the 10 other Pakistani sex gangs linked to the Rotherham wiki page. Two separate threads on this. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/40gldl/swedish_police_accused_of_covering_up_rampant/ It's 2 scandals at least, I can't say which is worse. The same newspaper that accused the police, knew what happened but did not publish it. They cover it up by themselves. I have a lot more but some of it is in German and Swedish and because I've bookmarked so many German / Swedish articles that were translated I didn't have the foresight to organize them better, my apologies. ad 3) Do you have any idea how hard it is to cause any issues with a modern nuclear power station (assuming that was the supposed target)? I am a pretty big fan of nuclear energy, know a lot about internal workings of those, even have visited an active power station and walked around the reactor hall. Still, I have absolutely zero idea how to cause major incidents in there. Not only the security is insanely tight (even the workers are required to strip naked before entering the controlled area), but also there is very little to achieve without massive resources. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions just because the story has "nuclear" in it. I do not, and I didn't jump to conclusions either because I am completely ignorant of the security clearances involved despite reading a few articles on it. I feel that a few random articles on the web wasn't enough for me to have a truly informed opinion on it. Hence why I used the word rumoured so I most definitely concede here. The fact that 330 people were put under house arrest doesn't say these are potential terrorist. A security agency can easily point fingers at anyone they wish under these circumstances. That's the very core of the issue why I have problems with the "state of emergency". 2235 searches for just 334 guns is also alarming, that basically means that at least 2000 searches were done to find nothing. That is a huge invasion of personal freedoms. Honestly, at this point, I am more afraid that my life will be ruined by the uncontrolled state powers framing me because of my public pro-refugee stances than by any actual terrorist. Agreed it doesn't say they are potential terrorists. But many of the terrorists that have struck in Belgium, France, and other places are often known to authorities beforehand. Many imams were also expelled to go with those house arrests, and that includes Jihadist propaganda found at mosques and homes. Agreed that uncontrolled state powers are a problem however in the case of the migrant crisis there's serious strife going on that may build and build. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
After terrorist attacks in Britain there was #youain'tnomuslimbruv After the multiple terrorist attacks in france there was #jesuischarlie or #istandwithfrance After Belgium there was #stopislam - this was censored / deleted by Belgium despite growing at an extreme pace. Due to the EU's new hate speech stance where twitter / facebook and other internet outlets can be monitored and people can aggressively be sought after there was this: #istandwithhatespeech - which is now silenced on my twitter feed at least. Not sure if it's on anyone elses. Correcting post: The tag is not silenced yet and has reappeared. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On June 01 2016 12:01 SK.Testie wrote: Are you not concerned with blatant censorship and suppression of information in government and the media? for the umpteenth time, hate speech has never been legal in Europe, so no I'm not particular concerned with this kind of legislation. There isn't any information in any meaningful sense being suppressed here, it's just incitement of hate.And before you ask, yes I don't want any kind of extremist propaganda on social media this goes for radical Islamism as well. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
When Merkel tells Zuckerberg to stop anti-Migrant FB posts, what does that entail? http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/27/angela-merkel-caught-on-hot-mic-pressing-facebook-ceo-over-anti-immigrant-posts.html This is a government body telling a private company to do something And my question to you: Is the hashtag itself - #stopislam a hashtag of hate? | ||
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