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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On January 17 2016 18:49 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 09:36 LegalLord wrote:On January 17 2016 09:18 Gorsameth wrote:On January 17 2016 09:12 LegalLord wrote:On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter. By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash. US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows. The US is insulated because there is an ocean between them and the problem. Its easy to only bring in high quality refugees when they can not reach you without your help. You know, unlike the EU where they simply make the trek to the border and walk in. Yes we let them inside but even if we tried to keep them all outside Turkey/drowned them outside Greece, we would have a large group of illegal refugees. Most of them wouldn't have come if they weren't given an invitation from Germany. The illegals would be a problem but a much smaller scale one. On January 17 2016 09:14 WhiteDog wrote:On January 17 2016 09:12 LegalLord wrote:On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter. By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash. US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows. The US is not responsible of our problems, it's our own stupid liberalism that is the cause. The US is actually much more pragmatic than us. I was referring specifically to the US funding that helped to start the instability in the MidEast in the first place. The blame for making the short-sighted decision to actually accept refugees of course lies squarely with the European nations in question. Refugees were already coming in great numbers before Merkel said anything. What she said is dumb (why make a promise you cannot keep?) But the refugee flow would've been coming regardless.
It can be argued that Merkel "opened the gates" by not only saying this but also going to the refugees and making selfies with them. That's very encouraging for everyone seeing it.
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If selfies possess such mystical powers she should make one with Assad , might end the war
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On January 18 2016 01:28 Nyxisto wrote:
If selfies possess such mystical powers she should make one with Assad , might end the war
so you are denying that refugees taking selfies with the chancellor of germany encourage more refugees to make their way to Germany?
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Significantly? yes lol. Maybe she should try to scare'em away with a mean tweet
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On January 18 2016 01:28 Nyxisto wrote:
If selfies possess such mystical powers she should make one with Assad , might end the war
I think you understand what he is getting at. It's not like Merkel is powerless here. Selfies and the like are not the extent of her encouragement. Trying to force other countries to take immigrants as well as many other things gave people tons of reason to hop on the train. You have to realize how many countries immigrants are coming from. This isn't just a bunch of drowning kids at this point.
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No, but the overarching reasons for migration are poverty and war, not social media messages. Someone who is willing to run thousands of kilometers over the continent by foot while giving up his home isn't doing so because Angela Merkel said something nice on public television.
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On January 18 2016 01:56 Nyxisto wrote:
No, but the overarching reasons for migration are poverty and war, not social media messages. Someone who is willing to run thousands of kilometers over the continent by foot while giving up his home isn't doing so because Angela Merkel said something nice on public television.
No one is arguing she is convincing people to leave well furnished homes. But she did give hope to people who should not have had hope. By allowing it to be as simple as having a shitty life by German standards, Morocco, Pakistan, Algeria and many other "shitty, but not anywhere near unlivable" countries are migrating. This in effect gives open borders to these countries.
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On January 18 2016 01:56 Nyxisto wrote:
No, but the overarching reasons for migration are poverty and war, not social media messages. Someone who is willing to run thousands of kilometers over the continent by foot while giving up his home isn't doing so because Angela Merkel said something nice on public television.
then i think you grossly underestimate the power of pictures and messages. i don't want to say it is the sole reason for the situation at hand. but it certainly encouraged sceptic people to try their luck. otherwise it makes me wonder why even "sans papier" from italy started moving north after the summer of willkommenkultur.
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So we are at about 750 criminal reports, half of them sexual harassment/attempted sexual harassment the other half theft/attempted theft (many intertwine, that stupid dance trick thingy) and 3 reports of rape. ATM there are 20 suspects for those reports. This is just cologne, mind you, but still, it's the vast majority of the reports.
My source for the crime statistics is the last radio news and Thomas Fischer, Federal Judge. A really nice article (only German, sorry) by the way. http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2016-01/sexmob-koeln-kriminalitaet-strafrecht-fischer-im-recht/komplettansicht
I said a couple of days back this is no big deal and i stand by that. Everything is blown way out of proportion and here's why: The statistics for the whole of Germany show, that there's NO rise in crime overall for a typical new years eve. As there's NO rise in crime for specific demographic groups. The events of NYE were a bunch of criminal immigrants, let's say 50 (bystanders are disgusting yes, but that's the reality) and a country of over 80m and even parts of the world were about to enter hysteria-mode. You gotta be fucking kidding me!
That's what i mean by "weak" when i would have to describe the reaction. What will happen if a Paris like attack happens in Germany? I won't even imagine... Never underestimate German hysteria!
Of course those guys from NYE are disgusting and have to be prosecuted. If possible, send them back. And while we're at the topic, it's really a good time to send a message: If you come to this country and cannot adapt to a point or fuck up in the eye of the law, you'll be prosecuted and sent back, after your time in prison is done. If you want the freedom and possibilities we have, your way of life will have to change as well. If you can't accept that, you're not welcome. Also Police will have step up their game.
I'm fine with my tax money being used for immigrants who need help and abide our laws. Better than making up for the mistakes of some crazy investment bankers.
Normally i'd still laugh at all the xenophobe propaganda getting spewed around, but unfortunately it's getting more and more mainstream as you also see in this forum as well. That's the only thing freaking me out at the moment.
There's so many problems, a lot of them connected to the stream of refugees (middle east fucked beyond repair maybe, globalisation going wild, making the rich richer and the poor poorer, richest 60 people owning more than poorest 4.000.000.000 people, *continue endless list*), but we have to discuss like 50 criminal immigrant drunks for 2 weeks! That's the problem we have to take care of! Let's throw everything under the bus, we're being overrun, chaos everywhere! This is a joke...
Come on, how has life in Germany changed because of the immigrants so far? My life hasn't changed one bit. I just see some more smaller groups of middle eastern men walking around town, who mostly seem really insecure. I rather pity them.
To me all in all the events were a reminder. It is good, that media, politicians and police are under closer monitoring. Some stuff needs to change, BUT disgusting racist propaganda is still disgusting racist propaganda.
I saw that as a kid:
+ Show Spoiler +
Never again!
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at the end of the day as a german you shouldn't be too hard toward merkel, she's just listening to the big and industrialized corporation within your country that want a cheap labour
that's why you got 1 million + refugees*
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On January 19 2016 06:43 Makro wrote:
at the end of the day as a german you shouldn't be too hard toward merkel, she's just listening to the big and industrialized corporation within your country that want a cheap labour
that's why you got 1 million + refugees*
The industry is already heavily against Merkel. Noone needs unskilled labor in an industrialized country. We are solely looking for specialized workers and the 1+million refugees workers are almost all useless in that regard. So please stop repeating that idiocy...
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On January 19 2016 07:45 Yuljan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2016 06:43 Makro wrote:
at the end of the day as a german you shouldn't be too hard toward merkel, she's just listening to the big and industrialized corporation within your country that want a cheap labour
that's why you got 1 million + refugees* The industry is already heavily against Merkel. Noone needs unskilled labor in an industrialized country. We are solely looking for specialized workers and the 1+million refugees workers are almost all useless in that regard. So please stop repeating that idiocy...
Just confirming that. Minimum wage is installed (finally), even cheaper labor is not possible. Also there's weird regulations for asylum seekers being able to work. It may really be about humanity, but i gave up on trying to understand "flag in the wind"-Merkel long ago... That attitude is now finally bringing her down.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 19 2016 06:48 TMG26 wrote:
What? Bring it on! I'm looking forward to your wisdom and inside knowledge!
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Why is the humanitarian reason not enough?
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On January 19 2016 08:13 Deathstar wrote:
Why is the humanitarian reason not enough?
Who said it isn't?
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The statistics for the whole of Germany show, that there's NO rise in crime overall for a typical new years eve. As there's NO rise in crime for specific demographic groups.
That's btw a flat out lie.
It's just people like you being too dense to understand that "no rise overall" doesn't mean anything apart from you purposely and most likely knowingly misrepresenting actual facts.
Wanna explain how "no overall rise in crime" and "mugging/pick pocketing etc tripled" fits together? How "Auslaenderkriminalitaet" rose by almost 100% from 2014 to 2015 - and why that trend, according to you, suddenly stopped? If you can't be arsed to actually look at statistics (and btw, that "tripled" is an actual fact, i linked it a couple of pages back, unlike you posting the personal opinion of someone, which is btw extremely obnoxiously written and full of misinformation, like he's talking about 150 offenses on NYE - and he wrote it on the 12th, where it was long clear that it's not 150), please stop trying to spread that stupid propaganda.
edit: but while we're at the point that we're citing personal opinions as fact..
http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Panorama/d/7926410/-ich-halte-es-dort-nicht-mehr-aus-.html (german, sorry, can't really find english links regarding stuff like that)
Enjoy the read. Quite enlightening.
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On January 19 2016 06:01 r00ty wrote:
Racist, xenophobe, Islamophobe, yada yada
It's people like you who make it impossible to have a proper conversation about this.
Calling everyone who has concerns about Islam a racist is just as constructive as calling everyone from the Middle East a towel head. If people can't say that they disagree with Islam because they don't believe rape should be legal, capital punishment should be the law and a system of gender apartheid isn't to be tolerated, they feel like they have to be more extreme in their rhetoric.
It's really getting more and more difficult to be a leftist these days.
"You cannot put women and men on an equal footing, It is against nature. Women are meant to be mothers."
That's a notion every left-wing voter should find appalling, but because Erdogan, representing the glowing example of Turkey as one of the most secular Muslim countries, says it, it's just part of the "beautiful religious diversity".
I've demonstrated against NPD and AfD for as long as I can remember, I've supported the left and green parties on a local level, I've voted red or green in every single election, so it sickens me to death that liberals try to silence any opposition to the biggest threat to liberal ideas in the 21st century.
If there's one good thing that came out of this Post-Colognonial (sic) debate it's that it's finally becoming more acceptable to say that if half of the apples are rotten, there's something wrong with the orchard.
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Djazpz (i bet i wrote the name wrong) had a very nice essay written on that problematic. If you think the US is politically correct, you should have a look at germany (or TL for that matter) - where you're immediately labelled as an anti-semite if you criticize the israeli government. You're labelled as racist, islamophobe etc if you speak up against Merkels "idea" - even if statistics agree with you. Also, there's just two ways, when ever you discuss with someone like r00ty (and others here): either you have status quo, or you erect minefields and kill refugees. Which is an actual statement someone made in this thread.
It's ridiculous, and shows the utter inability to actually have a debate.
Refugee in take is almost always rationalized by having young healthy workers to help the economy. I am on mobile but go to the ceo porion of link. Merkel also repeatedly says these refugees will be good for the country economically (so be quiet as I take in another million this year).
Two thirds of refugees can't sufficiently read/write or do math. 70% of afghans, syrians and iraqis quit their apprenticeships, because they can't follow the theoretical part of an apprenticeship.
The only ones having a chance in germanies labor market are the 3-10 year olds that come with their families.
(http://www.zeit.de/2015/47/integration-fluechtlinge-schule-bildung-herausforderung)
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On January 19 2016 08:45 m4ini wrote:Djazpz (i bet i wrote the name wrong) had a very nice essay written on that problematic. If you think the US is politically correct, you should have a look at germany (or TL for that matter) - where you're immediately labelled as an anti-semite if you criticize the israeli government. You're labelled as racist, islamophobe etc if you speak up against Merkels "idea" - even if statistics agree with you. Also, there's just two ways, when ever you discuss with someone like r00ty (and others here): either you have status quo, or you erect minefields and kill refugees. Which is an actual statement someone made in this thread. It's ridiculous, and shows the utter inability to actually have a debate. Show nested quote +Refugee in take is almost always rationalized by having young healthy workers to help the economy. I am on mobile but go to the ceo porion of link. Merkel also repeatedly says these refugees will be good for the country economically (so be quiet as I take in another million this year). Two thirds of refugees can't sufficiently read/write or do math. 70% of afghans, syrians and iraqis quit their apprenticeships, because they can't follow the theoretical part of an apprenticeship. The only ones having a chance in germanies labor market are the 3-10 year olds that come with their families. (http://www.zeit.de/2015/47/integration-fluechtlinge-schule-bildung-herausforderung)
To be fair, it's become much more socially acceptable, even in liberal circles, even in German liberal circles, even on TL, to criticise Israel's policies and politics. Weirdly, now it's Republicans and only the far right Israeli clergy / politicians who play the antisemitism card every time someone criticises their disgusting treatment of Palestinians.
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EPT
