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On January 17 2016 08:00 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 07:58 Schmobutzen wrote:
No!
Thought police is something very differnent to a spoken words police. Very different!
And your analysis is off, because it is an overly used trope, because I have and had a many discussions with a lot of people - and some of them do, what you describe - voicing concern and using some words are not automatically make you a nazi. But using it constantly and more often than not, will probably do. See.  There's quite a big difference between "Jews and Gypsies are genetically inferior and should be purged" and "Hey, I don't actually disagree with what is going on and I use words that someone deems offensive." I, for example, think Nyxisto's position is not very well thought out, but that doesn't make me label him as a left of Lenin antisocietal alternative nut. Many people on the left side of the political spectrum are incapable of engaging in a real debate because of muh values!!!! and anyone who disagrees with those immediately is someone not to be argued with on the basis that he disagrees.
I also don't use any Stalinist tropes so that would be inappropriate to do. Talking of foreign invaders, "hordes" and so on paints individuals without any agenda besides fleeing from poverty or war as some kind of collective that threatens our way of live and dehumanizes them. It's nothing but the old trope of the "foreign savage" without any basis in reality. You don't need to literally advocate genocide to sound like a racist.
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On January 17 2016 08:15 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:00 dismiss wrote:On January 17 2016 07:58 Schmobutzen wrote:
No!
Thought police is something very differnent to a spoken words police. Very different!
And your analysis is off, because it is an overly used trope, because I have and had a many discussions with a lot of people - and some of them do, what you describe - voicing concern and using some words are not automatically make you a nazi. But using it constantly and more often than not, will probably do. See. There's quite a big difference between "Jews and Gypsies are genetically inferior and should be purged" and "Hey, I don't actually disagree with what is going on and I use words that someone deems offensive." I, for example, think Nyxisto's position is not very well thought out, but that doesn't make me label him as a left of Lenin antisocietal alternative nut. Many people on the left side of the political spectrum are incapable of engaging in a real debate because of muh values!!!! and anyone who disagrees with those immediately is someone not to be argued with on the basis that he disagrees. I also don't use any Stalinist tropes so that would be inappropriate to do. Talking of foreign invaders, "hordes" and so on paints individuals without any agenda besides fleeing from poverty or war as some kind of collective that threatens our way of live and dehumanizes them. It's nothing but the old trope of the "foreign savage" without any basis in reality. You don't need to literally advocate genocide to sound like a racist.
Again, you're inferring that people are racists because you deem their political argument as to why the current migration situation is a bad idea based on your interpretation of their language.
I could now go ahead and claim that to me your response sounds very communistic, you're advocating for a wealth transfer etc. in the least, and if I were acting in line with what much of the German left practices that would make you a dirty communist.
Apart from that, do you really fault people if they perceive our way of life as changing? It evidently is, not everyone has to like that, in fact I'd much prefer if we didn't have to have increased police presence at every event or members of the government were calling for the army to operate within Germany as a supplement to the police.
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Our way of life really does change all the time. The good old times don't actually exist, but obviously believing that doesn't turn you into a racist, neither does legitimate concern. But people are jumping at old racist stereotypes and adopting the language very far into the mainstream society. After NYE suddenly people are concerned about "sexualized immigrants" because everybody knows that foreigners can't control their urges, right? (except we've been living with them for decades without it being a topic). There is no foreign invasion, we'll not turn into a shariah state (that's demographically impossible) and so on.
Language really is important when it comes to these heated topics and I'm a little baffled that people care very little about how they sound.
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On January 17 2016 08:40 Nyxisto wrote:
Our way of life really does change all the time. The good old times don't actually exist, but obviously believing that doesn't turn you into a racist, neither does legitimate concern. But people are jumping at old racist stereotypes and adopting the language very far into the mainstream society. After NYE suddenly people are concerned about "sexualized immigrants" because everybody knows that foreigners can't control their urges, right? (except we've been living with them for decades without it being a topic). There is no foreign invasion, we'll not turn into a shariah state (that's demographically impossible) and so on.
Well, I'd argue that people are more concerned about sexually improper refugees because they have over the course of the last year come into a more intimate contact with them and realised that their culture is way more archaic compared to ours than what was claimed by our politicians.
It doesn't make them ignoble human beings but I can't fault anyone for perceiving this as a threat given how unwilling or incapable to address this issue our politicians and police seemingly are.
Furthermore, given the 300+ sexually charged crimes in Cologne alone I'd put forward to you that there might just be a certain element within the refugee population that is unable to control their urges. Not because they're genetically inferior but because they've been raised this way.
The Spiegel published a more critical piece, reflecting on mainstream media's failure to critically cover new year's eves events, including following up with some of the offenders. Their reaction was nothing short of disgusting, dishonest, and unapologetic. Oh by the way, some got released after just a week under arrest without any further punishment.
On a side note, we haven't been living with a significant populace of people who've been brought up eastwards of Turkey for decades.
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On January 17 2016 08:40 Nyxisto wrote:
we'll not turn into a shariah state (that's demographically impossible)
Lets just give it 30 years then
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On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter.
By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash.
US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows.
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On January 17 2016 09:12 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter. By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash. US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows.
The US is not responsible of our problems, it's our own stupid liberalism that is the cause. The US is actually much more pragmatic than us.
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Netherlands22106 Posts
On January 17 2016 09:12 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter. By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash. US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows.
The US is insulated because there is an ocean between them and the problem. Its easy to only bring in high quality refugees when they can not reach you without your help.
You know, unlike the EU where they simply make the trek to the border and walk in.
Yes we let them inside but even if we tried to keep them all outside Turkey/drowned them outside Greece, we would have a large group of illegal refugees.
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On January 17 2016 09:18 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 09:12 LegalLord wrote:On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter. By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash. US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows. The US is insulated because there is an ocean between them and the problem. Its easy to only bring in high quality refugees when they can not reach you without your help. You know, unlike the EU where they simply make the trek to the border and walk in. Yes we let them inside but even if we tried to keep them all outside Turkey/drowned them outside Greece, we would have a large group of illegal refugees.
Most of them wouldn't have come if they weren't given an invitation from Germany. The illegals would be a problem but a much smaller scale one.
On January 17 2016 09:14 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 09:12 LegalLord wrote:On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter. By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash. US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows. The US is not responsible of our problems, it's our own stupid liberalism that is the cause. The US is actually much more pragmatic than us.
I was referring specifically to the US funding that helped to start the instability in the MidEast in the first place. The blame for making the short-sighted decision to actually accept refugees of course lies squarely with the European nations in question.
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No, not solely by refugees. The link states that the police was not supposed to report the ethnicity or nationality of suspects as long as it is not relevant to the case, to avoid stereotyping. Which I think is reasonable and actually common practice in Europe.
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"Hinweise auf eine Beteiligung von Ausländern, ethnischen oder religiösen Minderheiten oder deren Hautfarbe haben grundsätzlich zu unterbleiben"
Reading comprehension seems to not be your strong suit
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"..sofern nicht im Einzelfall die Information aus sachlichen Gründen für das Verständnis des berichteten Vorganges oder zum Zwecke der Fahndung zwingend erforderlich ist"
.. as long as the information in individual cases and for factual reasons, isn't necessary to understand the crime.
that's literally the second part of the same sentence lol.
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Which is determined by whom? Also that's not a particularly accurate translation.
It's not necessary to mention someone's ethnicity for the "Verständnis des berichteten Vorganges" if someone got assaulted or sexually molested since you're describing the crime itself (for example asylum seeker beat up an old lady would turn into someone beat up someone). However, given the current situation, it's important to put it into the proper context which this wouldn't allow for. The police itself thought of it as a gag order.
There's a reason people don't trust the police anymore when it comes to assessing the current situation accurately, and quite honestly, why should they if they act like this? If anything these orders will help the extreme right parties since all their "crazy" claims suddenly happen to be accurate.
It should not be the polices job to editorialise anything rather than reporting on the facts under any circumstance.
I recommend reading this for a better understanding of why orders like these are problematic.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/harte-bretter/harte-bretter-ueber-die-ironie-der-schweigespirale-14016085.html
Oh, I actually checked the BKA report + Show Spoiler +https://www.bka.de/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/pks__node.html?__nnn=true
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Dismiss: in almost no way there is a reason for the mentioning of race in criminal cases, sometimes it can help, to identify, but that's it.
Everything else serves a darker purpose. ..
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So you support blatant disinformation and censorship because providing people with all the relevant information would run contrary to your beliefs. I get the feel we have had that happen a few times before in Germany, didn't turn out so well. If there's a whole bunch of people committing crimes because they are from an archaic society and unwilling to adapt that's relevant information to me, you don't get to decide that. You're immediately jumping at calling everyone a racist again for some reason.
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There is no disinformation if you report that 2 persons did a crime and don't specially mention their ethnicity!!!
Why should it be important?
A whole lot would follow if it would be. Such as to mention the ethnic backround of a person living the 3rd generation here. If your logic follows - it would be, but of course this is ridiculous.
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On January 17 2016 18:17 Schmobutzen wrote:
There is no disinformation if you report that 2 persons did a crime and don't specially mention their ethnicity!!!
Why should it be important?
A whole lot would follow if it would be. Such as to mention the ethnic backround of a person living the 3rd generation here. If your logic follows - it would be, but of course this is ridiculous.
It is if there's a whole bunch of it happening. It is if there's a debate going on on how to proceed with a huge movement of foreigners. It is not up to you or the police to decide why it should not be relevant.
If for some reason 3rd generation migrants from the northern outreaches of Baku happened to commit 600+ crimes in one night I'd like to know about that, too.
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On January 17 2016 09:36 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 09:18 Gorsameth wrote:On January 17 2016 09:12 LegalLord wrote:On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter. By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash. US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows. The US is insulated because there is an ocean between them and the problem. Its easy to only bring in high quality refugees when they can not reach you without your help. You know, unlike the EU where they simply make the trek to the border and walk in. Yes we let them inside but even if we tried to keep them all outside Turkey/drowned them outside Greece, we would have a large group of illegal refugees. Most of them wouldn't have come if they weren't given an invitation from Germany. The illegals would be a problem but a much smaller scale one. Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 09:14 WhiteDog wrote:On January 17 2016 09:12 LegalLord wrote:On January 17 2016 08:01 Mohdoo wrote:On January 17 2016 06:44 ZeRoX_TV wrote:
I like people bashing muslim extremist now when they were commiting crimes in their countries while they was doing same on Kosovo 1998 and 99 you all supported Serbia bombing. Albanian muslims were organ dealing whole war and everyone kept eyes closed. You have terrorist state in south Europe and you just dont care. Boo hoo hoo, turns out the world is driven by power and influence, more news at 11. Muslim extremists served their purpose and helped the united state sustain its power. When you use an attack dog to kill someone, do you want that dog kept in your home? Or do you keep it in a cage? It's a whole different thing to wake up one day to hear the dog bit your daughter. That dog was supposed to just attack your rival. Supporting a dog's biting of a rival is very different from supporting a dog's biting of your daughter. By that analogy Germany decided to let said dogs live in their homes and is surprised that there is backlash. US has actually been for the most part insulated from the effects of Syria because they made the smart decision not to accept massive quantities of immigrants (one of the very rare smart decisions that the Republicans manage to have endorsed). Overall I guess you could say that Europe reaps what the United State sows. The US is not responsible of our problems, it's our own stupid liberalism that is the cause. The US is actually much more pragmatic than us. I was referring specifically to the US funding that helped to start the instability in the MidEast in the first place. The blame for making the short-sighted decision to actually accept refugees of course lies squarely with the European nations in question.
Refugees were already coming in great numbers before Merkel said anything. What she said is dumb (why make a promise you cannot keep?) But the refugee flow would've been coming regardless.
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EPT
