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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1410

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1944 Posts
April 20 2025 04:31 GMT
#28181
Yes. Yes IT is. You do realize that there is not infinite space and not everyone can just move away from their place of work. You need to have living space for low income people where their place of work is. You can achieve that, if you have low rent apartments in all areas where there are jobs. How that works can be seen in Vienna, one of the cities with the highest quality of life in the world. The city owns about 220000 apartments and subsidizes another 200k, about half of the cities population lives in these apartments. Instead of Berlin, that first sold all their residential to vonovia and then acted shocked when a company, a force of good, started to raise prices as aggressively as possible. Building more if you do not have enough housing is of course great, but rent does not ever go down as a consequence. What's the couple of a barber and a nurse gonna do? Buy a house an hour outside of Berlin and travel 3 hours a day to to their jobs?
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11879 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-20 07:29:28
April 20 2025 07:24 GMT
#28182
On April 20 2025 04:21 Sent. wrote:
It is a very complicated issue that you can't just leave to the market despite knowing there's a strong demand for new homes. I'm not sure how much truth to it there is but many people in Poland blame the housing problems on developers and their business model. One of the accusations is that they hoard real estates but purposely don't build as much as they could because this lets them sell those buildings that they do build at higher prices.

If I was leading the government I wouldn't trust developers and the banks that are supposed to finance their projects. We tried that and it failed, but I'm not sure what's the best alternative. Public projects tend to be very inefficient.


You can have efficient public projects. It needs to be large scale, ongoing and well thought out though. Same as for a company project.

Put up a contract for 3 000 identical apartment buildings where you override the courts when people think it is a cultural site or their view would be impacted and it would be efficient. Schedule it as part of overall maintenance so roads and plumbing gets extended easily.


Alternative way to fix it. Turn the trend of single person households around. Not sure how to do that, I personally like them. But removing a large part of the need is another way to increase availability without needing to build anything. Probably also ties into the complaint some people have of people having too few kids.

In 2023, 17.01 million German households had one occupant, while only 4.94 million households had three people living in them.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/464187/households-by-size-germany/
KT_Elwood
Profile Joined July 2015
Germany994 Posts
April 20 2025 11:16 GMT
#28183
Rent explodes EVERYWHERE remotely intersting around the world, because money is created, trickles up with no wealth taxation, and rich people don't consume.. they invest in assets and this means they buy property and stocks.

Covid money printing into "engery crisis" was an inflation machine. And it's not bad that money was printed, but ALL the governments missed out on the taxation afterwards to collect it BACK.

German government had "Windfall tax" in place.. and at the first chance killed it off again because hundreds of millions collected in 3 months "wasn't worth it".

There are narratives about regulations, prices, shortages, idiot governments... but in a nutshell it's : The rich own the stuff,and you don't.

That's why it's getting perpetually more expensive in Berlin. Vienna. Sidney. Whatever.

Tax the rich. 2% for >10Million. And see the world get "reasonably priced" again.
"First he eats our dogs, and then he taxes the penguins... Donald Trump truly is the Donald Trump of our generation. " -DPB
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22027 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-20 12:30:26
April 20 2025 12:24 GMT
#28184
On April 20 2025 13:31 Broetchenholer wrote:
Yes. Yes IT is. You do realize that there is not infinite space and not everyone can just move away from their place of work. You need to have living space for low income people where their place of work is. You can achieve that, if you have low rent apartments in all areas where there are jobs. How that works can be seen in Vienna, one of the cities with the highest quality of life in the world. The city owns about 220000 apartments and subsidizes another 200k, about half of the cities population lives in these apartments. Instead of Berlin, that first sold all their residential to vonovia and then acted shocked when a company, a force of good, started to raise prices as aggressively as possible. Building more if you do not have enough housing is of course great, but rent does not ever go down as a consequence. What's the couple of a barber and a nurse gonna do? Buy a house an hour outside of Berlin and travel 3 hours a day to to their jobs?


That‘s unironically how it often works in the US with the suburbs. Some US workers have commute times that seem ridiculously long to Europeans because we are used to move as close as possible to our workplaces.

Especially true for Austria.

Fully agree about Vonovia. The housing market doesn‘t belong on the stock market nowadays.

I‘ve heard stories of folk elsewhere just owning several apartment complexes who drown in money by doing nothing.
They‘re not the ‚backbone of society‘ as some politicians say.
More like feudal lords.

They have the responsibility to invest the money into sectors of society that help improve it. We know how that went.
They invested it into the sectors that keep it controlled, docile and uneducated. Mostly in the US, as can be seen in realtime.
KT_Elwood
Profile Joined July 2015
Germany994 Posts
April 20 2025 19:44 GMT
#28185
Imagine people invest in creating new housing, instead of putting their money in overevaluated stocks and ETFs....


"First he eats our dogs, and then he taxes the penguins... Donald Trump truly is the Donald Trump of our generation. " -DPB
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11879 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-20 20:41:36
April 20 2025 20:40 GMT
#28186
On April 21 2025 04:44 KT_Elwood wrote:
Imagine people invest in creating new housing, instead of putting their money in overevaluated stocks and ETFs....




Don't they when interests are low? Then pull out when interests get high again? You see big consolidations happening every time money is free. But housing is a long term investment, even when financing a build so interest rates are very important.

If the industry was more stable you would have more prefabricated houses built in a week or two somewhere else and thus have much lower costs for houses. It is too boom and bust to keep factories profitable though.
KT_Elwood
Profile Joined July 2015
Germany994 Posts
April 20 2025 22:13 GMT
#28187
In germany it was pretty much normal, that you could pay the land and building and financing it with 20-30 years of rent of the year of completion. Now it's about 45-55 years.

So basicly it now takes more than one lifetime of work to get a new building paid off. Because there will be renovations, and damages and repairs, and so on.

Without rent increasing 50% every 5 years, you can't make your money back within your work life which means.. if you invest into property, to have passive income and don't rely on public/gov pensions... you now can't anymore.

Unless you start life with a big inheritence.

That's a problem. The middle class can SELL their property now. And then the middleclass has no more assets. The next generation will start poorer than their parents.
"First he eats our dogs, and then he taxes the penguins... Donald Trump truly is the Donald Trump of our generation. " -DPB
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22027 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-20 23:42:56
April 20 2025 22:55 GMT
#28188
+ Show Spoiler +
Some politicians decided super-rich people should exist, and that they had right of way. They even sped up the transfer of wealth. Until we‘re supposed to live in a society made up of two classes.
One can do whatever it wants, the other has to obey the other class. It doesn‘t matter what they‘re capable of, only what they bring to the table.

The essence of the middle class is that it can, and is allowed to. If it‘s demoted to lower class, it can, but is not allowed to because it lacked assets and connections to be exploitable by the higher class.

What the higher class has is access to exclusive information, among other things. They can frontrun a lot of the dwindling middle class, in my opinion.

It‘s not a balanced market. Not even in Europe. The regulation doesn‘t work as desired over international borders.


Half of this might sound like a conspiracy theory and be one.
Maybe I‘m also just highly aware of the class warfare.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23293 Posts
April 27 2025 11:53 GMT
#28189
On April 27 2025 17:29 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2025 16:58 Jockmcplop wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/26/antisemitism-us-jews-free-speech

The Trump administration claims that its moves to defund universities, arrest and deport students and force schools to demote or monitor professors are meant to combat antisemitism, protect Jewish students and remove “Hamas-supporting” foreign nationals from the country. American pro-Israel groups including the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), Hillel International, Aipac and the Heritage Foundation have united behind Republican measures to crack down on higher education and its putative antisemitism. Religiously identified groups such as the Orthodox Union and Christians United for Israel have joined the chorus, celebrating the punishment of supposedly antisemitic students and professors. Whatever their varied pasts, today’s pro-Israel groups are not about protecting American Jews. Instead, they are allies in Maga’s war on free speech, academic freedom and the US’s democratic society itself.


This shows how badly the definition of antisemitism has been twisted by the Israeli government and its advocacy groups worlwide.

The US government is now targeting American jews who disagree with the way Israel is conducting its genocide, at the behest of pro-Israel groups.

Now what is really antisemitic? Disagreeing with Israel's actions, or the US government targeting jews for arrest for speaking out?


I think this separation is quite clear in Europe. Jews are more unpopular than they were but far from large organized hate crimes against them. While Israel as a state is unpopular and people would not object to them being banned at sporting events, Eurovision, stop military sales etc.


What are you guys waiting for?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9129 Posts
May 18 2025 14:26 GMT
#28190
Durov just sent a message to every Romanian Telegram user (today is the presidential run-off election by the way) with the following text:

"A Western European government (guess which one *baguette emoji*) contacted Telegram, asking us to silence conservative voices in Romania before today's presidential elections. We categorically refused. Telegram will not restrict the freedom of its Romanian users and it will not block their political channels.

You cannot "defend democracy" by destroying democracy. You cannot fight "election interference" by interfering in elections. You either have freedom of speech and fair elections or you don't. And the Romanian people deserves both."

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



Worth noting the exact term used for "Romanian people" in the last sentence, "poporul", has pretty much been the motto of the far-right campaign for the past half a year.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18048 Posts
May 18 2025 14:58 GMT
#28191
Did France do that? If so, that was extremely stupid. This is obviously still propaganda and just yet another reason why this type of tool should be federated, and mass broadcasting should be a government tool for emergency usage only. But if France did it, that was just a really dumb thing to do. If not then it's propaganda AND fake news, and should definitely be illegal.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2638 Posts
May 18 2025 15:09 GMT
#28192
On May 18 2025 23:58 Acrofales wrote:
Did France do that? If so, that was extremely stupid. This is obviously still propaganda and just yet another reason why this type of tool should be federated, and mass broadcasting should be a government tool for emergency usage only. But if France did it, that was just a really dumb thing to do. If not then it's propaganda AND fake news, and should definitely be illegal.


Google the guys history with France and ask yourself if you think they are stupid enough to think he would cooperate.

This is probably him doing multiple birds with one stone. Some propaganda, fucking with France and doing Putin a favor at the same time.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9129 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-18 15:45:02
May 18 2025 15:38 GMT
#28193
On May 18 2025 23:58 Acrofales wrote:
Did France do that? If so, that was extremely stupid. This is obviously still propaganda and just yet another reason why this type of tool should be federated, and mass broadcasting should be a government tool for emergency usage only. But if France did it, that was just a really dumb thing to do. If not then it's propaganda AND fake news, and should definitely be illegal.

We have no information beyond his claim. It's likely the EU warned social media companies about election manipulation given recent events, but France specifically telling Telegram to block right wing Romanian accounts doesn't seem realistic. Durov is currently on trial in France on serious charges and has an ax to grind with them.

Between this mass broadcast on an election day, and Tiktok closing for a day in the US to glaze Trump in both the closing and re-opening message, and Twitter being bought by an activist manchild and transformed into Parler 2, we obviously have a problem with oligarchs of questionable morals controlling the means of internet communication and information dissemination.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9213 Posts
May 18 2025 18:41 GMT
#28194
Looks like capital city mayors will defeat populist candidates in Romania and Poland today. Global politics could be so much different if Budapest and Istanbul mayors were similarly popular.
You're now breathing manually
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5623 Posts
May 18 2025 19:20 GMT
#28195
The exit polls for Poland are looking bad. Depends on how the votes for minor candidates transfer in the next round. :<
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9213 Posts
May 18 2025 19:29 GMT
#28196
Yeah it doesn't look promising at all
You're now breathing manually
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9129 Posts
May 18 2025 19:59 GMT
#28197
On May 19 2025 04:20 maybenexttime wrote:
The exit polls for Poland are looking bad. Depends on how the votes for minor candidates transfer in the next round. :<

They were bad for as as well in the 1st round, you can't just add the percentages from the first round candidates based on their leanings. Turnouts tend to be greater in runoffs and some perceptions can change.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5623 Posts
May 18 2025 20:15 GMT
#28198
I know. Last time Mentzen's voters (Bosak was running that time) split 50:50. It's gonna be a close one, though. The right-wing candidate is a fucking scammer. It's crazy how many votes that fucker got. He scammed an elderly man out of an apartment...
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4731 Posts
May 18 2025 20:41 GMT
#28199
Braun getting over 6% percent is scary... That guy is fucking bonkers.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4731 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-19 08:19:14
May 19 2025 08:12 GMT
#28200
Official results of first stage of polish presidentail election in 2025. Top two goes to second rund.

Rafał Trzaskowski – 31,36 proc - KO candidate. Seen as pro EU and pro LGTB candidate but also as shallow and oportunist. Mayor of Warsaw.
Karol Nawrocki – 29,54 proc. - PiS candidate. Noone. Literally unknown before being choose as candidate. He comes out as really bad speaker and ineeficient politician. His only strenght is being PiS candidate and Trzaskowski's weakness.
__________________________________________________________________________
Sławomir Mentzen – 14,8 proc. - Confedaration party candidate. Libertarian idealogy with pro-russian topings. Historically their votes split around 50-50.
Grzegorz Braun – 6,34 proc. - Antisemtism, hate, anti EU, anit LGBT, hardcore catholicysm, climate change denier and also some more hate and russian money in the pocket. His votes will almost 100% go to Nawrocki.
Szymon Hołownia – 4,99 proc. - former TV personality turned politician. Most likely 50-50 split.
Adrian Zandberg – 4,86 proc. - left wing - if his voters will vote in second rund they will vote for Trzaskowski.
Magdalena Biejat – 4,23 proc. - same as above.
Krzysztof Stanowski – 1,24 proc. - Internet personality, joind for the luls and to promote his channel. No idea how his vote will split.
Joanna Senyszyn – 1,09 proc. - left wing - same as the other left wings.
Marek Jakubiak – 0,77 proc.
Artur Bartoszewicz – 0,44 proc.
Maciej Maciak – 0,19 proc.
Marek Woch – 0,09 proc.

Second rund will be probablly hard fought. Weather and turnout might be deciding factor.
Pathetic Greta hater.
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