European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1287

On October 30 2020 03:50 Starlightsun wrote:
Very troubling. Not sure how one could combat this without throwing more fuel on the fire.

On October 30 2020 03:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:
A Charlie hebdo drawing. It says:

In China Oighurs are persecuted - sleeps
In Birmania the Rohingyas are being oppressed - sleeps
In Africa, whole (muslim) villages are being massacred - sleeps
In France, we draw - VENGEANCE!!!



The fact that so many muslims are outraged, but outraged, by some fucking drawings while their muslim co-religionaries are being oppressed and killed all over is one of the most weird and disturbing phenomenon in today's world. The amount of insecurity of those people is just hard to fathom.

On October 30 2020 03:57 Sent. wrote:


This is a silly argument. A random Turk or Pakistani wouldn't find Xinjiang, Nigeria or Birma on the map, why would you expect them to be outraged about something they know nothing about?

Erdogan caused an uproar over the weekend by telling the French president to have his mental state checked. He also accused Macron of Islamophobia after the French leader defended the publication of controversial cartoons depicting the Muslim Prophet Muhammad.

France condemned the Turkish president's comments and recalled its ambassador from Ankara in response.

"We have great understanding for their diplomatic measures and we support them," said Maas in a reference to France's reaction.

Erdogan responded again on Monday by calling for a boycott of French goods. Some shops in Jordan, Kuwait and Qatar had already removed French products from their shelves in protest.

"We see that, especially in European countries, hostility towards Islam and Muslims is spreading like a plague in society," Erdogan said on Monday.

European solidarity against Islamist extremism

The German foreign minister stressed that while there were "millions of honest citizens of Muslim faith" in Germany and across Europe, it was wrong to conflate the battle against violence-prone Islamists and general Islamophobia.

"Anyone who simply equates these real problems with racism and Islamophobia, is acting irresponsibly and is playing into the hands of those who want to divide our society," Maas said.

Macron had said France would "not give up its cartoons," after the brutal murder of a teacher in Paris who had displayed the images in his classroom. The president emphasized that France would not give up its right to free speech.

His comments that Islam was in a "crisis" triggered protests around the world. Pakistan summoned the French ambassador to voice anger over the comments, while protesters gathered in Bangladesh calling Macron the "enemy of peace."

On October 30 2020 05:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Nah, cartoons insulting the prophet are more important than genocides or travel bans.

On October 30 2020 06:04 WombaT wrote:

Gotta have one’s priorities in order, naturally.

On October 30 2020 06:40 GreenHorizons wrote:

I sincerely hope people don't actually think it's just about the cartoons? Colonialism casts a long shadow.

On October 30 2020 07:04 Biff The Understudy wrote:

That's probably why they killed everyone at the Charlie Colonial Bureau.

On 28 March 2008, Chérif was convicted of terrorism and sentenced to three years in prison, with 18 months suspended, for recruiting fighters for militant Islamist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's group in Iraq.[95] He said outrage at the torture of inmates by the US Army at Baghdad Central Prison in Abu Ghraib inspired him to help Iraq's insurgency.

On October 30 2020 06:40 GreenHorizons wrote:

I sincerely hope people don't actually think it's just about the cartoons? Colonialism casts a long shadow.

On October 30 2020 08:01 WombaT wrote:

That it does, that said there seems to have been a far bigger reaction in the Islamic world to Macron’s comments than what I recalled from the US President talking about banning movement from those countries.

The West has innumerable historic crimes to answer for in the colonial domain, that said there are people across the globe more outraged by Charlie Hebdo cartoons than somebody being killed for having them on display.

Running parallel to that is Erdogan’s ongoing project to de-secularise Turkey and actively trying to push away from a Europe that was gradually moving to bring them into the fold.

On October 30 2020 08:12 GreenHorizons wrote:


I would agree that geopolitical events are complex and people's interaction with them nuanced. There's a lot of valid and/or political reasons besides "they just care about cartoons because they're so insecure" for what you're seeing. It's just degradingly reductive in my view.

That one of the Charlie Hebdo attackers was put in prison for recruiting fighters against the west in Iraq after seeing prisoners tortured by the US military is demonstrative of the exact opposite of the notion that they aren't upset by far more than just the cartoons and rhetoric (even if that's what acts as a particular catalyst at a given time).

On October 30 2020 08:50 WombaT wrote:

Well yes it’s part of the pipeline of radicalisation, that said bombing an Ariana Grande concert or killing cartoonists doesn’t seem a particularly sensible outlet for such (justified) rage and dissatisfaction.

Aside from my own moral objections on a pragmatic level too I think the instincts of the populist right re Islam in the West should be resisted strongly precisely because they fuel the dislocation and dissatisfaction that in extreme cases leads to tragic events

Foreign policy, colonialism and the structures of the religion itself are all pertinent factors and yes it is reductive to singularly stress one or the other, I was merely making light of an extremely dark situation rather than reflecting my opinions on this issue.

The fact that so many muslims are outraged, but outraged, by some fucking drawings while their muslim co-religionaries are being oppressed and killed all over is one of the most weird and disturbing phenomenon in today's world. The amount of insecurity of those people is just hard to fathom.