EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 111
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
In Paris, you just have to go to a big train station such as Montparnasse and wait till the end of the day. At 1 AM, you'll see an army of black people entering the trains and cleaning everything. It is a shame, and people who refuse to acknowledge that fact are just putting their hands on their eyes. In southern France, in agricultural fields, farmers used to employ northern africans workers and students for the seasonal harvest, but with french contract, now we employ romanian workers with romanian contract ! Even for old immigrants, economic immigration create a loss. And it's true that we should not mix political immigration and economic immigration, but right now asylums are at an all time low (in France at least, not sure about the rest of europe). Economic immigration is just plain bad, political immigration should be defended and it should be an honnor to welcome people. But which country in europe welcomed Snowden ? Russia lol. Stupid immigration policy completly transformed the social question in the entire southern europe. It's now a question of race more than class. Just go in worker class neighborhoods and you'll see 75 % black and arabs. Imo that's a shame, and the main reason as to why it's that way is that we refused to think about immigration at all, believed they were "economically beneficial" so let the market do everything, and never created any infrastructures to welcome them in dignity and at the same time prevent urban segregation. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6231 Posts
On April 24 2015 19:38 sixfour wrote: so is there no uk election thread yet? i see the uk politics thread hasn't been posted in for a month post it here, the UK is in europe as well  .There's really not that much going on though except for labour and the tory's being very close to eachother and both winning depending in different polls. And Cameron dodging the 2nd debate. What a damned coward. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10764 Posts
France is another topic because of your colonial history... I don't know any country in europe that has as many africans/arrabs as france (or even comes close to it?) and it really stuck out to me during my 3 month stay there (and that was in La Rochelle, i doubt that place had, for French standards, a high amount of people with african roots). But about the cleaning crews... Yeah, in switzerland these are mainly people from eastern europe, former yugoslavia, portugal and turks. Basically our entire unskilled (or lowskilled) Labor sector is ex-yugoslavia, portugese and turkish... And i share your feelings about this... What switzerland did manage pretty good was not "allowing" pure Immigrant neighbourhoods to become a thing (mostly). Sure there are some, but i don't know if this was due to smart policy or just luck with the exisiting settlement structure of switzerland. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
I think you are fairly well off in Switzerland if transportation is truly the biggest issue you have with immigration On April 24 2015 19:28 warding wrote: IMO the Danish system is rigged against any immigrants. Settling yourself in Denmark as a poor immigrant is virtually impossible. For starters, you need a residence and rents are insanely high and usually require 6 rents of downpayment to begin with. Due to high taxes and the high de facto minimum wages (avg $20), it's extraordinarily difficult for a low-skilled worker to find work. Also, to get those educational subsidies you do need Danish citizenship (even though EU citizens also have a right to it under EU law, they don't currently get it). Also, living expenses in Copenhagen are waaaay higher than in Germany. Copenhagen is the most expensive city in mainland Europe. Part of it is the dysfunctional housing/rental market (which may be a strategy to keep immigrants out, in that case good job), part of it is lack of low-skilled immigrants working in hospitality and services. The system is definitely not rigged as that implies some sort of underlying scheme to keep immigrants out which involves all Copenhageners willingly paying a high rent just to do so. Let us put the tinfoil hat away... Why do you think Denmark is obliged to welcome unskilled immigrants? We have almost zero need for them as our entire industry is not reliant on unskilled labor - that is also why there are no jobs for them. If we allowed them to freely immigrate we would simply set them up for failure. I don't understand your argument concerning the high tax and high minimum wage, so I would appreciate it if you could expand on that part. For now my only comment to that part is that I fail to see why we should alter what has made the Danish society one of the most successful welfare states in the world. Off the top of my head I know of at least 5 students from Europe who all receive the educational subsidy, so I'm going to have to call bullshit on that one. There are other cities in Denmark than Copenhagen. You can find very cheap housing within 1 hour of transportation to Copenhagen. I also still fail to see why low-skilled immigrants would lower the living expenses overall and would ask for you to expand on that part as well. | ||
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phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
if someone runs for his life and screams for help, handing him a sheet to fill out his educational background, before you decide to help is just inhuman. i think you can do better. if the only solutions to that crisis you can think of are, integrating millions of war refugees into our society to a point so that they can live here forever OR sending them to die then i really question your usefulness to our european society. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10764 Posts
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phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
On April 24 2015 20:48 Velr wrote: And we stopped talking about the syrian crysis some time ago? lol no, that was actually the start of the discussion but then always the same happens my country fucked up its immigration policys over the last decades, so now im angry, thats why we have to stop right now, thats really bad luck that syrian war is happening just as im getting angry at immigrants living here so there is no other option to send everyone back to die. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On April 24 2015 20:38 phil.ipp wrote: its stupid to talk about europe immigration in general, when talking about the syrian crisis, they dont want to live in europe, they just dont want to die. if someone runs for his life and screams for help, handing him a sheet to fill out his educational background, before you decide to help is just inhuman. i think you can do better. if the only solutions to that crisis you can think of are, integrating millions of war refugees into our society to a point so that they can live here forever OR sending them to die then i really question your usefulness to our european society. IMMIGRANTS ARE NOT REFUGEES!!! | ||
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phil.ipp
Austria1067 Posts
lets talk about the thing that goes since days through our media that thousands of war refugees come to europe cause the war gets worse and what should be done about it. thats something that should matter to every european if uneducated immigrants living in denmark cities, im sure it matters to some, but not really the big topic that hangs over europe now. and its very telling, that there were like 3 posts on the syrian crisis until it derailed into: the muslims in my country destroy my society. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
And what do you propose to do about the issue? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10764 Posts
Whats there to discuss? | ||
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Simberto
Germany11556 Posts
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On April 24 2015 21:14 phil.ipp wrote: yeah so lets stop talking about german, denmark, or whatever country, immigration policies. lets talk about the thing that goes since days through our media that thousands of war refugees come to europe cause the war gets worse and what should be done about it. thats something that should matter to every european if uneducated immigrants living in denmark cities, im sure it matters to some, but not really the big topic that hangs over europe now. and its very telling, that there were like 3 posts on the syrian crisis until it derailed into: the muslims in my country destroy my society. I can imagine that it is a big topic in French cities like Paris and Marseille, which already have banlieus filled with unemployed and poor uneducated or undereducated youths from remarkably similar backgrounds and origins. Those places are tinderboxes that have exploded before. Personally I don't see the point in letting all sorts of migrants (refugees, economic migrants, ... ) in if we are not prepared to invest in them. I'd actually propose offer them or force them to enroll in affordable or free education and language courses, with intermediary tests that determine whether their visas will be prolonged or not. Their education levels should in the end be equal to a secundary education degree, and their language level equal to C1. Of course this would mean that we also offer them shelter (preferably far away of existing ghettos) and a source of income. What we do not need, however, is a proverbial army of unskilled, undereducated newcomers who are just given a visa but not a single bit of guidance. Europe already has a surplus of unskilled and unemployed labour. Those people will await a life of poverty and misery over here. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10764 Posts
This is more a French Problem due to its ties with the former colonies. The "Problems" atm are Refugees, which aren't really a problem if politicans would have the balls to just finally do something abou tit (and ignore the outcries of the ultra far right assholes that seem to scare them from doing what is just basic decency). The other problem are former immigrants and their families which are/were "hurt" by bad or non existant Integration policies since the end of WW2... "New" Immigration is damn near a non-issue (at least if your ok with movements within the eu)... Its just one that populist parties/politicians can exploit easily. | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On April 24 2015 22:45 Velr wrote: If only that was the case."New" Immigration is damn near a non-issue (at least if your ok with movements within the eu)... Its just one that populist parties/politicians can exploit easily. I don't know how it is in other countries, but here in Germany the farther away from a big city you go, the stronger the sentiment of "not in my backyard" gets. With anything really. Try opening an asylum seeker hostel or a rehabilitation center or a psychiatric clinic in a small town or village and all hell breaks loose. Suddenly all those upstanding citizens fight tooth and nail against the very thing they proudly 'supported" beforehand. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10764 Posts
On the other Hand... Why we would build a refugee camp for 200 People in a village with 400 inhabitants is also beyond me and i kinda understand the resistance by the locals in these "extreme" cases. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On April 24 2015 23:04 lord_nibbler wrote: If only that was the case. I don't know how it is in other countries, but here in Germany the farther away from a big city you go, the stronger the sentiment of "not in my backyard" gets. With anything really. Try opening an asylum seeker hostel or a rehabilitation center or a psychiatric clinic in a small town or village and all hell breaks loose. Suddenly all those upstanding citizens fight tooth and nail against the very thing they proudly 'supported" beforehand. Because people are afraid of what they don't know. It's not rational. 98% of Muslims live in West Germany, and still people in Dresden are protesting the 'Islamization' of their city. Here in Cologne we have tons of Muslims and most of them are very pleasant people, no one cares. Sure there's the occasional debate about a mosque or something but overall everybody has just accepted that demographics change. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
your post ... it looks like you seem to believe that people are embracing the change and not just go along with it for w/e reasons. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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