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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
in this thread its always about economy, granted all the EU is, is a trade union.
in the EU thread local topics cant really be discussed cause no sources are available in english (only if you have luck)
also topics with no impact on the EU as a whole get next to no coverage from the media of the other member states, so most people dont have a clue.
for a change we could discuss the ongoing refugee problem in the EU
today i heard on the radio that david cameron agreed to supply boats and helicopters but only if the UK doesnt have to take on more refugees. of course i cant find any english source, dont know where i even would begin searching.
for me this is shocking.
on the other side its what you would expect, uk government was never really big on the solidarity front.
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Last year we had 500k refugees with a EU population of 500 million people. 1 refugee per 1000 citizens isn't exactly unbearable. I absolutely hate how right-wingers claim that Europe is being 'overrun'
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What was the cost of those refugees to the EU, and how many of them are today a well-integrated contributing member of society?
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I think we should help the vast majority of the refugees, but it isn't a solution to simply open the borders.
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to union or unhcr?
i think syrian refugees are hitting western economies, mostly turkey and relatively eu.
http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4a02d9346.html
| FINANCIAL INFORMATION |
The budget for Europe in 2015 is set at USD 480.5 million which represents a two-and-half fold increase compared to five years ago (2009).
After a significant rise of the budget in 2010, reflecting UNHCR's decision to bring the long-standing displacement chapter in South-Eastern Europe to a close, financial requirements declined in 2011, reflecting the progressive downscaling of operations in general. The Northern, Western, Central and Southern Europe subregion has seen a budget increase as the numbers of asylum-seekers keep growing, particularly in Northern and Southern Europe. Eastern Europe is the subregion with the most dramatic budget fluctuation in the past five years: the regional budget increased from USD 125.7 million in 2010 to USD 365.7 million in 2015, mainly due to the impact in Turkey of the crisis in Syria. On the basis of current influxes of Syrian and Iraqi refugees, the number of people of concern is expected to reach 5.3 million in 2015.
In 2014, the ExCom-approved budget, set at USD 343.3 million, was insufficient for UNHCR and partners to respond to the ever-increasing needs of the refugees seeking asylum in Turkey. A supplementary budget was therefore established through the Syria Regional Response Plan (RRP6) amounting to USD 285 million. Supplementary budgets for 2014 were also established for the Iraqi refugees escaping into Turkey (USD 6.3 million) and for people displaced by the situation in Ukraine (USD 11.3 million).
With little prospect of a resolution of the situations in Iraq and Syria, it is likely that additional requirements for refugees from these countries arriving in Europe will be presented in 2015.
For the last five years, UNHCR's Turkey operational budget has steadily increased from USD 17.7 million in 2010 to USD 320.16 million in 2015. This increase is primarily due to the influx of refugees from neighbouring countries, including people displaced by the Syrian crisis and developments in Iraq.
Of the comprehensive needs-based budget of USD 320.16 million for 2015, USD 291.8 million corresponds to the planned activities to provide support to Syrian refugees, and USD 28.37 million for other people of concern.
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i think in this discussion many people mix things
you have to distinguish between war refugees and refugees cause of other reasons. why?
war refugee is in most cases only a status for a relatively short time.
it is and will never be the goal of any country to integrate war refugees into their society, war refugees are not immigrants.
the goal should be to give them a place to live and not fear for their lifes, for the time the war is going on.
at the same time all countrys should work to stop the war.
after some years when the war is over you send everyone back.
so when we talk about taking on war refugees its just wrong to talk about numbers of how many immigrants a country can integrate into their society, cause that is not the goal.
i dont know why they dont make big refugee camps where thousands of people live in tents or something. you could supply them with enough food and shelter. they dont come for living here, they come cause they have no other choice.
i think at the end some european countrys and the US have to do more than bomb things there, if we dont want to take on millions of refugees for decades.
we lived a long time without engaging in a war in europe, but i think its not really possible anymore.
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On April 24 2015 04:23 Nyxisto wrote:
Last year we had 500k refugees with a EU population of 500 million people. 1 refugee per 1000 citizens isn't exactly unbearable. I absolutely hate how right-wingers claim that Europe is being 'overrun'
Go to any inner city in during day time (not lunch time) and tell me we arent being overrun. Most of these people are not real refugees but fleeing their countries for a seemingly easier life. They can pay 5000€ just for a trip to Europe after all.
Only solution is to turn every boat back and not check any asylum status for people that arrive illegally. While simulatenously opening legal ways to request asylum in Turkey, Egypt and Morrocco. But since politicians always take the easy way out we will never see a real solution for the situation. Just a slow trickling of uneducated drags of other countries entering into Europe.
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you cant send everyone back. its an obligation for un member country to treat a refugee like almost its her own citizen, they can go public schools, hospitals freely and they can establish business or own property, you cant forbid any of these its not that easy.
they are making those camps already btw.
jordan: ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/An_Aerial_View_of_the_Za%27atri_Refugee_Camp.jpg/800px-An_Aerial_View_of_the_Za%27atri_Refugee_Camp.jpg)
turkey:
![[image loading]](http://media.worldbulletin.net/250x190/2012/09/03/hatay.jpg)
http://galleryhip.com/syrian-refugee-camps-in-turkey.html
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On April 24 2015 05:28 Yuljan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 04:23 Nyxisto wrote:
Last year we had 500k refugees with a EU population of 500 million people. 1 refugee per 1000 citizens isn't exactly unbearable. I absolutely hate how right-wingers claim that Europe is being 'overrun' Go to any inner city in during day time (not lunch time) and tell me we arent being overrun. Most of these people are not real refugees but fleeing their countries for a seemingly easier life. They can pay 5000€ just for a trip to Europe after all. Only solution is to turn every boat back and not check any asylum status for people that arrive illegally. While simulatenously opening legal ways to request asylum in Turkey, Egypt and Morrocco. But since politicians always take the easy way out we will never see a real solution for the situation. Just a slow trickling of uneducated drags of other countries entering into Europe.
sorry what?! turning people back without legal reason is the "solution" the hard way?
and taking people on, is the easy way?!
i think you mixed things up.
and what city are you talking about?
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On April 24 2015 05:33 phil.ipp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 05:28 Yuljan wrote:On April 24 2015 04:23 Nyxisto wrote:
Last year we had 500k refugees with a EU population of 500 million people. 1 refugee per 1000 citizens isn't exactly unbearable. I absolutely hate how right-wingers claim that Europe is being 'overrun' Go to any inner city in during day time (not lunch time) and tell me we arent being overrun. Most of these people are not real refugees but fleeing their countries for a seemingly easier life. They can pay 5000€ just for a trip to Europe after all. Only solution is to turn every boat back and not check any asylum status for people that arrive illegally. While simulatenously opening legal ways to request asylum in Turkey, Egypt and Morrocco. But since politicians always take the easy way out we will never see a real solution for the situation. Just a slow trickling of uneducated drags of other countries entering into Europe. sorry what?! turning people back without legal reason is the "solution" the hard way? and taking people on, is the easy way?! i think you mixed things up. and what city are you talking about?
all the nice little pure white european cities without outside influences, worshiping their slavic, gallic, germanic or celtish gods...
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also it doesnt really matter if boat full of syria war refugees comes illegaly to italy or legal through turkey, cause they are war refugees, i dont think there is a single country in europe where a asylum request can be denied...
again we are not talking about normal immigration.
if you have so many countrys at war right next to us, of course there are more asylum request, of course this need other solutions than normal immigration
but the solution certainly cant be to send them back to the war region.
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Go to any inner city in during day time (not lunch time) and tell me we arent being overrun.
Yeah, We're not being overrrun. Where do you live that you stumble over refugees all the time?
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On April 24 2015 05:48 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +Go to any inner city in during day time (not lunch time) and tell me we arent being overrun. Yeah, We're not being overrrun. Where do you live that you stumble over refugees all the time?
By "We are being overrun" he probably means "There are a lot of people who are not white". Which is true (at least here in Munich, for some values of "a lot". White people are still a large majority). It is also not a problem in the slightest, unless you are a racist.
I am not even really sure who that "We" is that is being overrun, as i feel no kinship with the kind of people that complain that the evil refugees are invading and destroying the culture of the occident.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the concentration of immigrants in ghettos is really a problem about migrant integration, and lack of integrative social resources. it is an ironic choice of observation for someone who wish to highlight the destructivity of these ppl. they are marginalized and powerless, largely
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Its quite nice that you are all so open minded and progressive. Its easy to say "he hates everyone not white", "so racist", "we are all the same". No we are not. People are divided by different things. The most of important of which is social class. I couldnt care less about an african, turkish or vietnamese guy coming from the upper educated classes of their countries that live here. But these are not the people that are coming here.
Please be assured I feel no kinship with any of you. I will soon say goodbye to this country anyway but as my family is staying behind I cannot help but feel sorry for the future they will have to face thanks to the current policies in place.
Btw where did I say I stumble over refugees? I stumble over beggars, pickpockets and gangs of muslim youths. These are mostly european immigrants or second/third generation immigrants. Wanna guess how the children of the new refugees will turn out? You cannot integrate people from tribal village that do not even speak (nor want to learn) German. Most of them come here for one reason only and that is money.
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Well, i do not know which city you are talking about. The two cities i have lived in so far, Hanover and Munich, are nothing like that.
I have yet to see those gangs of lazy criminal muslims that people constantly like to talk about.
There are a few beggars, most of them white homeless men and/or groups of white punks.
The minority people that i know tend to work similarly hard or harder than the 20th generation germans, and are on average roughly similarly nice people.
And i don't think i have been pickpocket a single time in my life, nor does that seem to be a common occurence, as i can't even recall someone complaining about that.
I guess there is a higher percentage of street musicians that appear to be of not-generations-deep German origin, but i don't really see what would be wrong with street musicians, the whole thing appears to be rather organised and i am pretty sure that they require some sort of permit anyways.
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I don't know how to solve the refugee problem but if we'll keep accepting everyone that manages to get in we're pretty much encouraging this kind of immigration and that's bad in my opinion. Not only it's dangerous for the refugees but it's also dangerous for Europeans since we have absolutely no control over who's coming to our countries.
Yes but that includes Eastern Europeans, I thought last pages are mostly about Africans.
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again, the overwhelming majority of asylum applications are already being rejected. What you're afraid of isn't happening.
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You could at least cite your own source honestly when trying to call people out for making shit up:
SPIEGEL: Mr. Klingholz, in your study "New Potential," which was presented on Tuesday, you point to a paradox: Even as Germany becomes a country of immigration, many problems relating to integration remain unsolved.
Klingholz: German companies are now attracting immigrants who are, on average, better qualified than the domestic population. In 2010, more than a third of the immigrants from Southern Europe were university graduates. They are making significant contributions to the good state of our economy. Those who came to Germany as guest workers in past decades generally had few qualifications.That means that today, these people frequently have poorly paid jobs, no work at all or low pensions. In addition, their children are often educationally disadvantaged. Only one in four children of Turkish immigrants graduates with a diploma from a university prep high school (eds. note: Gymnasium). Among children of native parents, the rate is 43 percent.
So in conclusion, the people who are accepted as immigrants today are better qualified than the domestic population (possibly because you know, a country can actually control who they want as immigrants and say no to those they don't want i.e. unqualified labor), but the average German immigrant is not - he is in fact at the very bottom of the social ladder.
Talk about making shit up...
EDIT: Why are we even discussing immigrants? I thought the issue was refugees? If not your prior number of 500.000 needs to be adjusted.
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I live in Frankfurt. Btw Nyxisto nice article you linked.
"German companies are now attracting immigrants who are, on average, better qualified than the domestic population. In 2010, more than a third of the immigrants from Southern Europe were university graduates."
Wow I did not know all these refugees come from Southern Europe. Why are they taking the detour through Lybia?
Noone ever questioned that immigrants from Europe are on average "higher educated" (mostly because we use a dual system in Germany and education is measured as having a university the degree) than the German population and also the average German includes the older generations were university was only 10% while immigrants are generally young...
Also a third with university degrees is not much. This means that 2/3 are slow skilled workers even from other European countries. How many construction workers does one country need? This will increase the pressure on older generations of immigrants even more since they will be replaced by cheaper labor, which naturally increases the current social problems even more due to higher unemployment. We are a country that needs and uses skilled workers. There are only that many manual labor/service jobs available.
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EPT
