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France’s Richest Are Making Money Faster Than Everyone Else This Year
Macronism, working as intended.
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1093
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
France’s Richest Are Making Money Faster Than Everyone Else This Year Macronism, working as intended. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6284 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 17 2018 19:47 RvB wrote: The article literally tells you why and it has nothing to do with Macron. rising demand from China, a bigger presence in e-commerce and a surge in auction sales from Christie's. He could rise taxes, so he's still responsible | ||
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dicey
142 Posts
On May 17 2018 03:17 mahrgell wrote: Delay? If anything, it is telling them, that they should get nukes as fast as possible, because the "the leaders of the free world" can't be trusted at all for their word. Get nukes and you don't have to play US election roulette anymore. Especially if it worked for Kim Jong-Un. A few months ago the big norm was: do like North Korea and Russia and you get sanctions. Play it fair and square (while "we", nato countries go with non-proliferation and winding down expenses on military) and we all stand to gain economically from it + domestic political points on all sides for stability. Now everything is off to the sh!tter and "the best" people are calling for a Trump peace prize before anything really happened... Anyone got anything to be optimistic about? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
why would you increase taxes because one year happens to be particularly good for a group of people? Especially if you've come to the conclusion that it's not based on politics but some outside effects? Just because? I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people who would take "he's still responsible" as a compliment in that case oO I mean if I understand the article correctly the samplesize we're talking about when we're talking about "the richest" is 2 (french) people vs the rest of the world on that level. Which is probably like 20-100 people total? That seems like a pretty volatile kind of comparison we're making in the first place. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18326 Posts
On May 17 2018 19:25 TheDwf wrote: + Show Spoiler + France’s Richest Are Making Money Faster Than Everyone Else This Year Macronism, working as intended. In addition to rvb's comment, this seems like the epitome of anecdotal evidence. It seems mostly due to 2 guys whose companies did excessively well in the first half of this year... and you are extrapolating this to some kind of political statement? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 17 2018 21:43 Toadesstern wrote: why would you increase taxes because one year happens to be particularly good for a group of people? Especially if you've come to the conclusion that it's not based on politics but some outside effects? Just because? I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people who would take "he's still responsible" as a compliment in that case oO I mean if I understand the article correctly the samplesize we're talking about when we're talking about "the richest" is 2 (french) people vs the rest of the world on that level. Which is probably like 20-100 people total? Because the richest people and especially billionaires pay proportionally less taxes than your average working class guy. It's a scandal per se, it has nothing to do with the results of such or such year. Macron suppressed the wealth tax, and so gave them back a few extra millions which they don't need (nor will they invest), while claiming that "there is no magical money" when people ask for much needed social spending. It's backwards redistribution On May 17 2018 21:47 Acrofales wrote: In addition to rvb's comment, this seems like the epitome of anecdotal evidence. It seems mostly due to 2 guys whose companies did excessively well in the first half of this year... and you are extrapolating this to some kind of political statement? Since Macron specifically lowered taxes for the richest (because "they might invest this money" — when interviewed about this, he recognized that he had no guarantees, so it's a gamble, and a losing one if last decades teach us anything) while refusing to properly fund health or various public stuff, it's not anecdotal at all, it's literally the heart of his economic policy... | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18326 Posts
On May 17 2018 21:54 TheDwf wrote: Because the richest people and especially billionaires pay proportionally less taxes than your average working class guy. It's a scandal per se, it has nothing to do with the results of such or such year. Macron suppressed the wealth tax, and so gave them back a few extra millions which they don't need (nor will they invest), while claiming that "there is no magical money" when people ask for much needed social spending. It's backwards redistribution Since Macron specifically lowered taxes for the richest (because "they might invest this money" — when interviewed about this, he recognized that he had no guarantees, so it's a gamble, and a losing one if last decades teach us anything) while refusing to properly fund health or various public stuff, it's not anecdotal at all, it's literally the heart of his economic policy... That's fine and I agree with you, but it doesn't change the fact that your argument was wrong. These 2 guys making lots of money has absolutely nothing to do with Macronism, and everything to do with their businesses booming for X, Y and Z reasons. If you somehow want to involve this in your argument, the best you can do is "Macron lowered their taxes, and they very obviously don't need it". | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
Mutters to himself and wanders off | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Also The French Gini hasn't really changed since almost two decades. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
(sry, again german, I'll see if I can find an english source and have a quick summary included below) Europäer bringen Abwehrgesetz gegen US-Sanktionen in Stellung Sofia (Reuters) - Die EU-Kommission will ein altes Abwehrgesetz reaktivieren, um europäischen Unternehmen die Einhaltung der US-Sanktionen gegen den Iran zu verbieten. “Als EU-Kommission haben wir die Pflicht, europäische Firmen zu schützen”, sagte Kommissionspräsident Jean-Claude Juncker nach dem EU-Gipfel am Donnerstag in Sofia. “Wir müssen jetzt handeln.” Deshalb solle ab Freitag um 10.30 damit begonnen werden, das Blocking Statute (Blockade-Statut) von 1996 zu aktivieren. Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel machte unterdessen allenfalls kleineren Unternehmen Hoffnung auf staatlichen Schutz vor den US-Sanktionen gegen den Iran. “In einer umfassenden Weise die gesamte Wirtschaft zu entschädigen, bei entsprechenden Maßnahmen der Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika, da können und dürfen wir auch keine Illusionen schüren, glaube ich”, sagte sie. Für kleine und mittlere Unternehmen werde derzeit geprüft, ob es Erleichterungen geben könnte. Das Blockade-Statut verbietet europäischen Firmen, US-Sanktionen einzuhalten. Gerichtsurteile, die zur Durchsetzung von US-Strafen verhängt werden, werden danach nicht anerkannt. Das Abwehrgesetz wurde in der Vergangenheit bisher allerdings nie angewandt. Die meisten europäischen Regierungen betrachten es eher als eine politische Waffe denn als Vorschrift, da die Regelung als sehr vage und schwierig durchzusetzen gilt. Die EU hatte das Gesetz 1996 geschaffen, als die USA versuchten, ausländische Firmen für den Handel mit Kuba zu bestrafen. Der damalige US-Präsident Bill Clinton verzichtete daraufhin auf das Vorhaben. Seither haben sich die Zeiten allerdings geändert: Die US-Sanktionen auf Finanztransaktionen sind deutlich verschärft und die Geldstrafen für den Verstoß dagegen massiv erhöht worden. [...] source: de.reuters.com so basicly they dug out some law from 1996, that doesn't allow european companies to follow US sanctions and court decisions that might occur to enforce US sanctions after all will not be legally recognized. Merkel goes on to say that there would have to be provisions to compensate, especially small (?), companies that are hit by US-sanctions as a result of that. It goes on to mention that this law called Blockade-Statut (ger) / Blocking Statute (eng) (I would assume you can google it to look it up?) has never been used and came into place in 1996 as a response to the cuba-crisis and the threat of the US targeting non-US companies dealing with cuba. It was never used because once it was put on the paper Bill Clinton walked back on all that. //My take on it: I didn't expect them to go that far. I thought we're going to get what Merkel mentioned: protection for companies that get hit by US sanctions which will result in companies stopping their trade with Iran anyways because noone wants to take that risk. So seeing them go this far is really nice. Not set in stone yet but the European Commision says they want to reactivate this law (or statute, or whatever it is) and it seems to be backed by Macron and Merkel at the very least? //edit: Actually, according to focus who are quoting Juncker it's set to be in place on Friday? Das sogenannte „Blocking Statute“ werde am Freitagvormittag auf den Weg gebracht, sagte EU-Kommissionspräsident Jean-Claude Juncker am Donnerstag nach einem EU-Spitzentreffen in der bulgarischen Hauptstadt Sofia. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
European Union Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker announced Thursday that the bloc plans to reactivate a law that would seek to block European companies from complying with sanctions the US reintroduces against Iran. Juncker's announcement came during the second day of an EU reunion in the Bulgarian capital, Sofia, that had already been marked by sharp criticism from European leaders over American President Donald Trump's decision to pull the US out of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal. What Juncker said: In Thursday's announcement, Juncker said: "As the European Commission we have the duty to protect European companies. We now need to act and this is why we are launching the process of to activate the 'blocking statute' from 1996." Juncker said that the law would be launched Friday morning at 10:30 a.m. local time. He added that European leaders "also decided to allow the European Investment Bank to facilitate European companies' investment in Iran" and said the Commission would continue to cooperate with Iran. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + "As the EU Commission, we have a duty to protect European companies," said Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker after the EU summit in Sofia on Thursday. "We must act now." Therefore, the blocking statute of 1996 should be activated from Friday at 10.30 a.m. on. Meanwhile, Chancellor Angela Merkel at best gave smaller companies hope for state protection against US sanctions against Iran. "In a comprehensive way to compensate the entire economy, with appropriate measures of the United States of America, we cannot and must not create illusions, I believe," she said. For small and medium-sized enterprises, the possibility of simplification is currently being examined. The blockade statute forbids European companies to comply with US sanctions. Judgments imposed to enforce US sentences will not be recognised thereafter. However, the Defense Act has never been applied in the past. Most European governments regard it more as a political weapon than a regulation, as the regulation is considered very vague and difficult to enforce. The EU created the law in 1996 when the US tried to punish foreign companies for trade with Cuba. The then US President Bill Clinton waived the project. Since then, however, times have changed: The US sanctions on financial transactions have been significantly tightened and the fines for the violation have been massively increased. The 28 EU states want to stick to the nuclear agreement with Iran despite the American withdrawal. "Everyone in the EU shares the view that this agreement is not perfect, but that we should stay in this agreement," said Chancellor Angela Merkel. Discussions with Iran on its missile programme or its role in the region should be based on this agreement. French President Emmanuel Macron and several other EU heads of government expressed similar views. Macron named an "expanded agreement" with Iran as a goal. Belgium's Prime Minister Charles Michel spoke of disappointment about US policy on issues such as Iran and trade, because Americans and Europeans actually shared common values. The question of how the EU can protect European companies against possible US sanctions remains unresolved. After the reintroduction of American sanctions against Iran, the US government also threatens companies from third countries with fines if they do not comply with US regulations. Macron criticized this in Sofia. It is about the "economic sovereignty of the EU", which must be defended. It is true that companies themselves would decide whether to withdraw from Iran in consideration of their US business. The French energy company Total, for example, had indicated the possibility of a withdrawal. But you still have to look at how you can help the companies and possibly compensate them. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
This kind of common call between parties, unions and associations is unprecedented on a national level. The CGT was reluctant to appear "side-by-side" with political parties, but finally accepted this larger formula due to the "social urgence". The goal is to support the existing struggles, try to make the government backtrack on his reforms and propose alternatives. There should be demonstrations a bit everywhere in France this day. Next week, there is also a demonstration of the public sector the 22/05, at the call of all representative trade unions. All union leaders of the biggest confederations should be present at the same place, a rare symbol given how divided French trade unions are. The strikes against the railway reform are still ongoing. Tonight is the beginning of the 19th day of strike. Some universities are still blocked to protest against the introduction of selection, and some exams have been cancelled in various cities. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Seems like Europe is starting to show some agency on the issue | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
First the government said: "this is a simple work document from the administration, it doesn't reflect what the government will do". But this morning, the minister of Economy said: "To explain that we're going to reduce public spending without touching social aids would be neither coherent nor just nor lucid towards French people". | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/05/15/mele-m15.html 15 May 2018 overall is a decent read and personally, when choosing between two evils, i lean towards the russians but that dude looks like the socialist version of the current liberal aristocrat.Last week, as US President Donald Trump canceled the Iranian nuclear treaty and Israel repeatedly bombed Iranian forces deployed in Syria, Unsubmissive France (LFI) leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon took a three-day trip to Moscow. Criticizing Trump’s threats against Iran, he called for an anti-American alliance between Paris and Moscow. ... Mélenchon embraced the Kremlin, who with Iran has fought NATO-backed Islamist guerrillas in Syria. “I am absolutely against the US alliance, I want to leave NATO,” he said before flying to Moscow. “Very great violence is being prepared between Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, in this region, some of these countries have common borders with Russia, we should show the world is not black and white.” In Moscow, Mélenchon proclaimed his friendship with Russia, met with Russian military brass and legislators as well as French investors in Russia, and worked for an “anti-war” alliance including LFI and the Stalinist Left Front of Sergei Udaltsov. He joined the May 9 military parade commemorating the Soviet victory over Nazi Germany in 1945, wearing a tricolor sash with the French national colors. He told the media, “I have come here to undertake a militant act: to say, ‘The Russians are our friends." ... This coalition of parties proposed by Udaltsov is a trap for workers and youth seeking to build an international movement against war. The International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI), which publishes the WSWS, is fighting to build an international, socialist anti-war movement in the working class. Udaltsov and Mélenchon, however, aim to subordinate workers and youth to pro-war parties that are longstanding fixtures of the political establishment. The Western European parties in this proposed coalition are pro-imperialist parties of the affluent middle class, incorporating large Stalinist factions that supported the restoration of capitalism in the USSR, and that have a long record of supporting war. LFI is leading the planning in the French National Assembly for a return to the draft, euphemistically calling it “universal national service with a military component” to try to make it seem less objectionable. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 21 2018 14:36 xM(Z wrote: weren't you the resident Mélenchonist?. http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/05/15/mele-m15.html overall is a decent read and personally, when choosing between two evils, i lean towards the russians but that dude looks like the socialist version of the current liberal aristocrat. This article is full of mistakes/misinterpretations, Mélenchon does not want an "anti-American alliance with Moscow". Sectarian trotskyites from WSWS are so boring | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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