EPTI think having our own European Holywood would be more helpful in developing common European identity and preventing things like this from happening.
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Sent.
Poland9108 Posts
I think having our own European Holywood would be more helpful in developing common European identity and preventing things like this from happening. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On January 27 2018 03:53 Toadesstern wrote: I personally don't think I'd ever name of Reagan and Thatcher as the most responsible for shaping todays political climate as you put it.... maybe that's on me being german and as such German reunification is obviously way more important? But even then Reagan in particular is pretty whatever to me and I'd point elsewhere first. In terms of the extent to which today's political climate could be called neoliberal, they were undoubtedly important in shaping it. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 27 2018 03:54 kollin wrote: In terms of the extent to which today's political climate could be called neoliberal, they were undoubtedly important in shaping it. yeah undoubtedly but I'd say for me as a German, having one Germany instead of 2 seperate ones is on a completly different level of "important". And the same is probably true for what we have with the EU nowadays. Maybe not as extreme but it's still up there. Just think about how people from Germany <-> France <-> UK etc thought about each other a couple generations ago and how we're sitting on TL chatting with each other. Basicly, imagine us still being the same way China <-> JP is still today is what I'm getting at. I'd easily put that as more important as well. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Tonight the "Akademikerball" (Ball of the Academics + Show Spoiler + I guess that adds to the discussion about English, since I have no clue whether "ball" as in "formal dance event" is common enough in the English language/culture to be understood This year the situation is particularily tense due to two reasons: 1) the FPÖ has the interior minister and is therefore in control of the police 2) in the recent days the dominating topic in Austria was an FPÖ politician and his far-right fraternity "Germania", who were using customized songbooks for their events with lines in them like demanding the "7th million" (of gased jews). With the interior minister and the party officials coming out to defend him for not being involved and downplaying the role of fraternities in the FPÖ (half of the party elites are part of one or another, usually German-nationalist fraternity). | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On January 27 2018 02:34 Nyxisto wrote: It's not like we're being mind-controlled by English just because it's a common language. That's putting the cart in front of the horse. We all speak English and know a lot of English and American politicians because the US is the single biggest global power (and especially was in the post-war years up to the 90s). I also really haven't heard a lot of Macron Thatcher comparisons, that was what people were saying about Filllon, and surely most kids who have a class about European history know who Monnet and the other founding fathers of the EU are. As a lingua franca English is fine. It's easy to learn, it's the de facto language in many scientific fields and so on. .. Well yes that's why English is spoken universally. That says nothing about the effects. And sure, but most people would know the name Nixon without having taken a high school class on American history. That's what English does imo, it defines what is baseline, and what is specialized. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On January 27 2018 03:48 Sent. wrote: Getting rid of one "main" language would have a big symbolic meaning, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle. I guess encouraging more French and German wouldn't hurt since these two are already used in business and taught in multiple European countries. I think having our own European Holywood would be more helpful in developing common European identity and preventing things like this from happening. Agree with all of this, including the "not sure if it's worth it" part. And yes that link is another excellent example. On January 27 2018 04:13 Big J wrote: Small update on what's going on in Austria right now: Tonight the "Akademikerball" (Ball of the Academics + Show Spoiler + I guess that adds to the discussion about English, since I have no clue whether "ball" as in "formal dance event" is common enough in the English language/culture to be understood This year the situation is particularily tense due to two reasons: 1) the FPÖ has the interior minister and is therefore in control of the police 2) in the recent days the dominating topic in Austria was an FPÖ politician and his far-right fraternity "Germania", who were using customized songbooks for their events with lines in them like demanding the "7th million" (of gased jews). With the interior minister and the party officials coming out to defend him for not being involved and downplaying the role of fraternities in the FPÖ (half of the party elites are part of one or another, usually German-nationalist fraternity). Well that's not terrifying at all. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 27 2018 04:13 Big J wrote: Small update on what's going on in Austria right now: Tonight the "Akademikerball" (Ball of the Academics I guess that adds to the discussion about English, since I have no clue whether "ball" as in "formal dance event" is common enough in the English language/culture to be understood) is taking place. Opt for the unmatched elegance of the French instead: putain de bal avec les néo-nazis [fucking ball with the neonazis]. Le Pen had triggered a scandal here when she went to the 2012 edition of the ball you mention, at the invitation... of the FPÖ. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On January 27 2018 03:59 Toadesstern wrote: yeah undoubtedly but I'd say for me as a German, having one Germany instead of 2 seperate ones is on a completly different level of "important". And the same is probably true for what we have with the EU nowadays. Maybe not as extreme but it's still up there. Just think about how people from Germany <-> France <-> UK etc thought about each other a couple generations ago and how we're sitting on TL chatting with each other. Basicly, imagine us still being the same way China <-> JP is still today is what I'm getting at. I'd easily put that as more important as well. At least for the UK, it was Thatcher who moved us towards ever closer union with the EU. I don't think you can underestimate the influence of neoliberalism in shaping the modern EU either, in contributing to the financial crash, and in shaping the responses of certain countries to that crash (especially the UK comes to mind here). Of course the unification of Germany is enormously significant, but when we look at today's pressing political issues I think a lot of them can be traced back to the Thatcher/Reagan era (Thatcher must also be given some credit for being one of the first world leaders to identify climate change as an issue, as much as I may despise her). | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On January 27 2018 04:25 KlaCkoN wrote: .. Well yes that's why English is spoken universally. That says nothing about the effects. And sure, but most people would know the name Nixon without having taken a high school class on American history. That's what English does imo, it defines what is baseline, and what is specialized. It's because America's politics is important worldwide, not because we speak English. Practically every second news article in German newspapers is about Trump, that wouldn't change if we'd all started to talk French. Geopolitics doesn't change because we change languages, languages lose or win influence because of politics. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On January 27 2018 05:17 Nyxisto wrote: It's because America's politics is important worldwide, not because we speak English. Practically every second news article in German newspapers is about Trump, that wouldn't change if we'd all started to talk French. Geopolitics doesn't change because we change languages, languages lose or win influence because of politics. I actually don't actually think the first sentence is true. Swedish news is absolutely full of US politics stuff as well but I don't think that's based on a sober valuation of what events shape the lives of their readers, rather I think journalists find it easy to follow american media and american talk shows, then they get swept up in it and parrot the same stories. There is no way that the trump russia investigation, or trump changing the location of the US embassy to israel, or trump calling so and so a cunt, is more important to the fortunes of the swedish or german middle class than e.g. the deteriorating relationship with Poland. Yet I have read countless articles on the rise of trumpism, and the ails of the american middle class, and the rage white americans feel when faced with "identity politics", together with an endless supply of "what the fuck did he say this time?!". Meanwhile, I have read precious few think pieces analyzing e.g. the Polish or Czech middle class and the political situation there. What are these polish "judicial reforms" actually? (On a deeper level than "kaczynski is attempting to establish political control of the judiciary"), why do (some) people vote for them? What does it actually mean? Trump being a buffoon doesnt actually impact the lives of ordinary people here. American geopolitical significance or not. A breakdown in continent wide supply lines over political differences would ruin countless real people overnight. Is this an actual risk? Or are current disagreements something that will naturally work itself out? Whatever the answer I think it matters more to people here than whether or not ex steel workers in Pennsylvania really do hate black people. And I do think a big part of the reason why Trump is reported on to the extent he is here, is because swedish and german journalists are fluent in english, not polish. Or as a sillier example, Swedish news spent about 10x the amount of time reporting on the wildfires in california this summer than the equally devastating ones in southern europe. Yet many more Swedes have houses and relatives in portugal and spain than who have any connection at all to california. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 27 2018 07:43 KlaCkoN wrote: And I do think a big part of the reason why Trump is reported on to the extent he is here, is because swedish and german journalists are fluent in english, not polish. There is also an inconscious "civilizational breakdown" in mass medias, with some countries from the so-called "Western World" being put at the top. When tackling international issues, I am under the impression that French mainstream medias mostly care about the USA, the UK and Germany. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 27 2018 03:48 Sent. wrote: Getting rid of one "main" language would have a big symbolic meaning, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle. I guess encouraging more French and German wouldn't hurt since these two are already used in business and taught in multiple European countries. I think having our own European Holywood would be more helpful in developing common European identity and preventing things like this from happening. Speaking of that... It's been 73 years that the Red Army liberated Auschwitz. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On January 27 2018 03:48 Sent. wrote: Getting rid of one "main" language would have a big symbolic meaning, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle. I guess encouraging more French and German wouldn't hurt since these two are already used in business and taught in multiple European countries. I think having our own European Holywood would be more helpful in developing common European identity and preventing things like this from happening. ...I don't get it. This is exactly the kind of point that I've tried to make in the past, and then you've mocked me for "falling prey to Russian propaganda". But clearly we agree on the notion that American media effectively propagandizes for their perspective on the world to some extent and that it's not necessarily a good thing. Hell, replace "European" with "Russian" in your last sentence, and you might as well be quoting Putin himself. So are you a Putinist or a European Imperialist (neither of which are commendable)? | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
I agree with much you say but not with your conclusion. I don't believe more linguistic isolation is the solution, quite the opposite. And isolation is what you suggest unless other countries start learning(and using!) French and German again which is not gonna happen. I'm a Swede as well, and you and I both know that we won't be picking up French, German or Spanish in any forseeable future. There is simply no reason to, we use English to communicate internationally and that won't change. If France is set on using French as their one and only language, that will only increase the effects you describe in your posts. But yeah, it's certainly not fair and it gives the US and UK a big advantage but I believe that fight is done. The best thing we can do is to try to even the field by being able to use English as well, refusal to do so will benefit no one. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On January 27 2018 21:13 opisska wrote: Well the 1945 is as biased as the new ones, only in the other direction. Surely, the USSR has contributed immensely to the Nazi defeat, but it was kinda because the Nazis backstabbed them pretty hard ... I mean if you're gonna go down that road arguably Britain, France and Poland were not willing to form an anti-fascist alliance on reasonable terms with the Soviets pre-1939, which kind of forced them into the arms of the Germans. I think the bias in the 1945 poll comes from the fact that Communist and Socialist parties commanded nearly half the vote in post-war France, and people weren't aware of the extent to which lend-lease helped the Soviets. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Some Belgium newspaper: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUf-k5SW4AAgYp1.jpg) Some French newspaper: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUf-k5zXcAAI7Uh.jpg) "[-1233 jobs] Belgium pays the bill of Carrefour's strategic mistakes." A more intense concurrence and less prodigal consumers incite Carrefour to cut costs. Two hypermarkets are condemned and 1233 jobs are threatened. "The man who wants to revolutionize mass distribution." Alexandre Bombard, Carrefour CEO, invests in the numeric. In our columns, he details the key points of his strategy which should allow the group to revolutionize mass distribution. 1. It's rare to be able to observe so clearly the difference between the press and a crude communication relay. 2. Can you guess which one of those newspapers receives ad revenues from Carrefour? 3. Of course, the fact that Carrefour's CEO gets the headlines and a few pages to unroll his communication plan has nothing to do with the fact that Le Parisien is owned by France's biggest fortune (Bernard Arnault, 40+ billions of euros), who also happens to be one of Carrefour's shareholders. Forgive this misplaced malevolence from me, Le Parisien is probably "free" and "independent" ...  | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
https://volby.idnes.cz/ | ||
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