|
On May 23 2011 04:42 ~ava wrote:
So far these characters don't feel like "real people". I'm going to read all the books so don't worry, but I hope it gets better.
+ Show Spoiler +
I dunno, it feels to me like you're trying to nitpick. Yes the series gets a ton of hype, but these 3 are not even the worst examples of one-dimensional characters. Here's my interpretation of the characters you mentioned:
Robert Baratheon: It's made clear that Robert Baratheon is not a good king. He is a warrior, and the love of his life was Lyanna Stark, now dead. In the books he is simply drowning his sorrows with booze and women, yet Ned still remembers him fondly as a friend who was brave enough to rebel against the mad king. He's gotten himself into a situation he wasn't ready for, and his life has become throughly miserable.
Lysa's boy is a spoiler brat because he is a spoiler brat. What do you expect? It's a child who was brought up in pretty extreme conditions, with him being sickly and his mother being far too protective of him.
Viserys is supposed to represent the "mad" side of the Targaryen. There's a saying the books, that whenever a Targaryen is born, a coin is tossed to see whether the child would become great or mad. Dany is great, Viserys is mad, like his father was. He's a psychopath, simple as that.
|
On May 23 2011 04:42 ~ava wrote:I just started the series; I'm about halfway through book 1 and finding that the characters are very one-dimensional, moreso than I like or am used to. So far: + Show Spoiler +The king is a womanizing drunk.
Lysa's boy is a spoiled brat.
Viserys just yells all the time, has no redeeming features. So far these characters don't feel like "real people". I'm going to read all the books so don't worry, but I hope it gets better.
That's weird. In my opionion ASoIaF may well have the best characters in all fiction.
The characters you listed haven't really had all that much screen time in the first half of the first book and you have to remember that you've only seen them from the point of view of other characters.
+ Show Spoiler [spoilers for first half of AGoT] +
King Robert is certainly much more than a womanizing drunk. He's a bitter and and resigned man who has lost the girl he loved and fought a war to avenge her but he's come to realise that his triumph was a hollow one as Lyanna is still dead, he's married to a woman he hates and he he's utterly unsuitable as a king and knows it, so he turns to drinking and meaningless sex with strangers in an effort to escape his misery.
Lysa's son Robert has had like 5 lines so far, what do you expect?
Can you give us a detailed character description of some kid you know in real life that you've exchanged 3 sentences with?
As for Viserys, he sees himself as the rightful king of Westeros and is angry at the world at large for treating him so unfairly. On top of that, he's already a pretty nasty guy and is easily enraged. With this combination, he gets angry frequently and lashes out at whoever is nearby, which is usually Daenerys in the scenes that we get to see, so it's not surprising that we get a very negative view of Viserys.
Is that bad writing? No, there really are preople in real life who appear to us to be very nasty and have no redeeming features.
Also, you always have to keep in mind that you never get a full picture of any non-POV character, so if some appear to be somewhat one dimensional, maybe it's just due to the POV characters limited knowledge or their preconceptions and biases.
The charactes you picked (minus King Robert) are also some of the less interesting non-POV characters. What about Petyr Baelish, Varys, Robb Stark, Samwell Tarly, Sandor Clegane, Khal Drogo, Jorah Mormont, or any of the other really intricate and interesting minor characters?
|
I chose to use those characters as examples simply because they were in the last 20 pages I read and they were fresh in my memory. I agree that other characters are much better and feel like "real" people - Catelyn, Tyrion and Eddard are good examples. Perhaps because we are told something of their history. Otherwise, I feel that I am able to pigeon-hole the rest far too easily:
+ Show Spoiler +Arya - rebellious
Varys - "sneaky"
Drogo - "barbaric" but also "tender" in private
Samwell - "craven" but also he will be something great
I feel that I am being led into a one-dimensional characterization of these people by the writer, I'm sure this will be expanded upon and there will be surprises, but so far I feel that I am being very heavily led to these conclusions, going as far as being told what their character traits are by the characters themselves. I'm finding it irksome.
On May 23 2011 05:40 Drunken.Jedi wrote:The characters you listed haven't really had all that much screen time in the first half of the first book and you have to remember that you've only seen them from the point of view of other characters. + Show Spoiler [spoilers for first half of AGoT] +
The charactes you picked (minus King Robert) are also some of the less interesting non-POV characters. What about Petyr Baelish, Varys, Robb Stark, Samwell Tarly, Sandor Clegane, Khal Drogo, Jorah Mormont, or any of the other really intricate and interesting minor characters?
|
On May 23 2011 14:21 ~ava wrote:I chose to use those characters as examples simply because they were in the last 20 pages I read and they were fresh in my memory. I agree that other characters are much better and feel like "real" people - Catelyn, Tyrion and Eddard are good examples. Perhaps because we are told something of their history. Otherwise, I feel that I am able to pigeon-hole the rest far too easily: + Show Spoiler +Arya - rebellious
Varys - "sneaky"
Drogo - "barbaric" but also "tender" in private
Samwell - "craven" but also he will be something great
, I'm sure this will be expanded upon and there will be surprises, but so far I feel that I am being very heavily led to these conclusions, going as far as being told what their character traits are by the characters themselves. I'm finding it irksome. Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 05:40 Drunken.Jedi wrote:The characters you listed haven't really had all that much screen time in the first half of the first book and you have to remember that you've only seen them from the point of view of other characters. + Show Spoiler [spoilers for first half of AGoT] +
The charactes you picked (minus King Robert) are also some of the less interesting non-POV characters. What about Petyr Baelish, Varys, Robb Stark, Samwell Tarly, Sandor Clegane, Khal Drogo, Jorah Mormont, or any of the other really intricate and interesting minor characters?
Well, you're leading me into a one-dimensional characterization of you as a very difficult person and I find it irksome.
Stop nitpicking and enjoy the damn books.
|
That's fine, you don't have to like me. I'm still enjoying the books despite the criticism, these are just my honest thoughts while reading the first book. Thanks for making me feel like I'm not allowed to express myself.
On May 23 2011 16:04 how2TL wrote:
Well, you're leading me into a one-dimensional characterization of you as a very difficult person and I find it irksome.
Stop nitpicking and enjoy the damn books.
|
7 days till a Dance with dragons is out, finally. I'm going to murder Martin if the book isn't a masterpiece.
|
On June 05 2011 18:54 Odoakar wrote:
7 days till a Dance with dragons is out, finally. I'm going to murder Martin if the book isn't a masterpiece.
+ 1 month
sorry to destroy you dreams :/
|
On June 05 2011 19:01 Mattes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 18:54 Odoakar wrote:
7 days till a Dance with dragons is out, finally. I'm going to murder Martin if the book isn't a masterpiece. + 1 month sorry to destroy you dreams :/
such an evil way to burst his bubble
|
On June 05 2011 20:52 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 19:01 Mattes wrote:On June 05 2011 18:54 Odoakar wrote:
7 days till a Dance with dragons is out, finally. I'm going to murder Martin if the book isn't a masterpiece. + 1 month sorry to destroy you dreams :/ such an evil way to burst his bubble
Its not a GRRM book if it doesn't in some way destroy your hopes and dreams to some extent.
|
well... hopes of the book coming out have been destroyed time after time for the past couple years...
so the book itself will just be awesome. i'm sure. already preordered it. might even get it a day or two earlier, depends on when they will send em out in germany.
I preordered the latest "camel club" novel and got it 3 days early.
|
Just started this fantastic series a few days ago. Half way through the first book. It's great.
|
On December 02 2006 23:18 FuDDx wrote:
ove read them 4 times now and i cant get enough.............................
waiting for the next mo fokkin book to come out damnit i hate waiting for good things sometimes.
So glad I started the series this late, poor FuDDx been waiting patiently since 2006 :D
|
On June 05 2011 19:01 Mattes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 18:54 Odoakar wrote:
7 days till a Dance with dragons is out, finally. I'm going to murder Martin if the book isn't a masterpiece. + 1 month sorry to destroy you dreams :/
Wait, it's July?! Why did I think it's June?:///
|
On May 23 2011 14:21 ~ava wrote:I chose to use those characters as examples simply because they were in the last 20 pages I read and they were fresh in my memory. I agree that other characters are much better and feel like "real" people - Catelyn, Tyrion and Eddard are good examples. Perhaps because we are told something of their history. Otherwise, I feel that I am able to pigeon-hole the rest far too easily: + Show Spoiler +Arya - rebellious
Varys - "sneaky"
Drogo - "barbaric" but also "tender" in private
Samwell - "craven" but also he will be something great
I feel that I am being led into a one-dimensional characterization of these people by the writer, I'm sure this will be expanded upon and there will be surprises, but so far I feel that I am being very heavily led to these conclusions, going as far as being told what their character traits are by the characters themselves. I'm finding it irksome. Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 05:40 Drunken.Jedi wrote:The characters you listed haven't really had all that much screen time in the first half of the first book and you have to remember that you've only seen them from the point of view of other characters. + Show Spoiler [spoilers for first half of AGoT] +
The charactes you picked (minus King Robert) are also some of the less interesting non-POV characters. What about Petyr Baelish, Varys, Robb Stark, Samwell Tarly, Sandor Clegane, Khal Drogo, Jorah Mormont, or any of the other really intricate and interesting minor characters?
Honestly it sounds to me like your criticism amounts to "I don't like characters who have an overarching character type"
I guess the problem with that is that almost always you either over-simplify the character to accomplish this, or create a word so broad it could describe nearly anything. Usually I find it's the former.
Arya. she's a child. when your a child, one characteristic often does define her. But she's far more than just rebellious...she's...ugh I can't spoil things, but she'll develop. Sam, too, probably develops a bit differently than you expect. Drogo...isn't a POV character for a reason. I guess he's one dimensional, but part of that is a language barrier...
|
On June 06 2011 00:57 mrgerry wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2006 23:18 FuDDx wrote:
ove read them 4 times now and i cant get enough.............................
waiting for the next mo fokkin book to come out damnit i hate waiting for good things sometimes. So glad I started the series this late, poor FuDDx been waiting patiently since 2006 :D
I've been waiting since 05. I was in high school when i read Feast for Crows and now I'm 23 lol ><
|
Started reading this because so many people have been recommending it to me. I'm amused because of the parallels to the War of the Roses (Lancaster vs. York/Lannister vs. Stark, the instability of a usurper dynasty (though of course irl it was Henry VI's grandfather who was the usurper , not him, and the instability was at least partially a product of Henry's misfortunes at war in France)).
I've only read the first book so far, but I'm looking forward to reading the other ones. Haven't seen the TV show yet - is it worth it, or should I just stick to the books?
|
I raced through the first three books and now I'm a little over 200 pages into A Feast for Crows and its just dragging. Thus far its been the worst of the series:/ So does it pick up and get better? I know I'll finish and probably pick up the next volume coming out next month..just need some motivation.
|
On June 08 2011 04:58 adun12345 wrote:
Started reading this because so many people have been recommending it to me. I'm amused because of the parallels to the War of the Roses (Lancaster vs. York/Lannister vs. Stark, the instability of a usurper dynasty (though of course irl it was Henry VI's grandfather who was the usurper , not him, and the instability was at least partially a product of Henry's misfortunes at war in France)).
I've only read the first book so far, but I'm looking forward to reading the other ones. Haven't seen the TV show yet - is it worth it, or should I just stick to the books?
Personally I'd wait until it's all made (or at least until the season is over), and then watch it all in a marathon. Otherwise you're going to be killing yourself waiting for the next episode like the rest of em. Suckers
On June 08 2011 20:42 Tegin wrote:
I raced through the first three books and now I'm a little over 200 pages into A Feast for Crows and its just dragging. Thus far its been the worst of the series:/ So does it pick up and get better? I know I'll finish and probably pick up the next volume coming out next month..just need some motivation.
Skip every Brienne chapter and it goes much faster
|
h3h3
yeah that's true. I really really dislike all sansa and brienne chapters.
but it will get better again... a feast for crows is kind of the slowest of the books.
|
Sansa I actually really enjoy for all of the political intrigue. Petry Baelish is one of the most fascinating characters to be, influences so many things, and watching him masterfully manipulated everyone is great
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
