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On July 23 2014 22:45 Jockmcplop wrote:Your questions are entirely excuses for killing innocent civilians, and as such they are not valid. Show nested quote +How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield? This is a lie. 100% untrue. Don't believe what your county's propaganda tells you. Its a simple case of dehumanizing the enemy. Resist the urge to believe. And how can you tell whats lie or not? How can you tell that Al-Jazzira and CNN isn't feeding you lies? I've seen it 1st hand, and you tell me that it is a lie. Fine.
And for your information, the media in Israel is as left wing and anti current government as it getsShow nested quote +What do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
This combined with actually talking and pursuing peace as a genuine option is probably a good idea. They don't have to disband of course, but just stop using their military to oppress and bully Palestinian civilians. I'm asking theoretically. Of course it won't happen in reality.They never would disband, like Israel, but again it would help peace negotiations. Peace isn't going to come from fighting and escalation. The same as aboveShow nested quote +
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way?
None of these are genocide. They are all human rights abuses, and despicable acts of cowardice. Good. Now tell me how collateral damage from percision strike against terrorists is genocide and deliberate chemical attacks on civilians isn't
On July 23 2014 22:45 -Archangel- wrote:
I think nobody is realistically asking that Israel lays down all weapons and goes Woodstock on Palestina.
You just have to stop killing 100 civilians for each 1 of yours.
Do you know how Nazi fought partisans in my part of the world during WW2? They would line up civilians from near by villages and shoot them if partisans hiding amongst them didn't surrender. You know what people think about Nazi?! Yes?!
Now replace soldiers with guns with missiles killing civilians and executions with random civilian deaths. Both had same purpose, to make fighting men stop fighting on the fear of random civilians dying.
When you understand this you will understand why most of the world hates Israel tactics.
Then you need to make an honest turn in politics where you will make the other side believe you truly want peace. Warmongering will not ever accomplish this.
I'm not speaking realistcly, i'm speaking theoretically, of course non of the side will lay down arms. As long as Israel exists, Israel must fight for survival.
Israel never deliberately targets down civilians. Each time it happens there are serious investigations in the army.
The government before Natanyahu was very left wing, and still it was forced into 2 conflicts. Sharon in 2005 left all the settlements in Gazza strip so there weren't any Israeli soldiers in Gazza strip after that, while Israel supplied the strip with food, money, water and electricity and what happened? In 2006 Hamas took over the strip and constantly fires rockets at Israeli cities, Hamas used the funds and also funds from Qatar to build a terror tunnel underground network instead of a port, powerplant, airport, factories and co. As long as Hamas and Hizbollah exists, they will stop at nothing until Israel is destroyed.
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Why is nobody commenting that palestines are using children and women as live shields?
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On July 23 2014 23:03 mdb wrote:
Why is nobody commenting that palestines are using children and women as live shields?
They think it's an Israeli media propaganda -_-
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On July 23 2014 23:03 mdb wrote:
Why is nobody commenting that palestines are using children and women as live shields?
Even if they are, the Israel can still choose to not kill them. Those live shields are basically hostages.
Would you kill all hostages in a bank to get to the bank robbers?
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On July 23 2014 23:03 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:45 Jockmcplop wrote:Your questions are entirely excuses for killing innocent civilians, and as such they are not valid. How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield? This is a lie. 100% untrue. Don't believe what your county's propaganda tells you. Its a simple case of dehumanizing the enemy. Resist the urge to believe. And how can you tell whats lie or not? How can you tell that Al-Jazzira and CNN isn't feeding you lies? I've seen it 1st hand, and you tell me that it is a lie. Fine.
And for your information, the media in Israel is as left wing and anti current government as it getsWhat do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
This combined with actually talking and pursuing peace as a genuine option is probably a good idea. They don't have to disband of course, but just stop using their military to oppress and bully Palestinian civilians. I'm asking theoretically. Of course it won't happen in reality.2. What do you think will happen if all neighbours will do the same? They never would disband, like Israel, but again it would help peace negotiations. Peace isn't going to come from fighting and escalation. The same as above
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way?
None of these are genocide. They are all human rights abuses, and despicable acts of cowardice. Good. Now tell me how collateral damage from percision strike against terrorists is genocide and deliberate chemical attacks on civilians isn't
I never said there was genocide occurring in Gaza. You must have me confused with someone else.
Its not genocide, its a horrific set of human rights abuses on both sides.
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On July 23 2014 22:46 BetterThanThisPlace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 23 2014 22:19 accela wrote:UN Human Rights boss Navi Pillay says Israel's military actions in Gaza "could amount to war crimes"
The UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626Well it took couple decades of massacre and genocide in multiple episodes for UN to aknowledge that there might be human rights violations, of course no one would seriously believe that they are just slow on processing the evidences. It doesn't matter what the UN think. Projected timeline of events: 7/23/14: UN says Israeli actions may amount to war crimes 7/24/14: Israel rejects this as biased Then nothing happens. No country in the history of warfare has taken greater care to limit civilian casualties than Israel in Protective Edge - from 100s of thousands of leaflets of warning to phone calls before practically every single bombing (that allow Hamas militants to escape as well).
Thats bullshit. Your limiting civilian casulties operation killed more civlians in few days than entire war in Ukraine which is already lasting several months and both sides use heavy weapons. Ukrainians use jet strikes, artillery, tanks in dense pupulated areas and are not even close to what You achieved in a few days.
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On July 23 2014 23:00 BetterThanThisPlace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:50 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 23 2014 22:46 BetterThanThisPlace wrote:On July 23 2014 22:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 23 2014 22:19 accela wrote:UN Human Rights boss Navi Pillay says Israel's military actions in Gaza "could amount to war crimes"
The UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626Well it took couple decades of massacre and genocide in multiple episodes for UN to aknowledge that there might be human rights violations, of course no one would seriously believe that they are just slow on processing the evidences. It doesn't matter what the UN think. Projected timeline of events: 7/23/14: UN says Israeli actions may amount to war crimes 7/24/14: Israel rejects this as biased Then nothing happens. Why not be honest and say that Israeli Jews deserve to die? Isn't that what you people are too cowardly to say? That's bullshit. I never even insinuated that, and neither did anyone else on here. Stuff like this is a simple way of avoiding actual discussion. In fact if you read my earlier post on page 1 I explicitly say that it is the fault of those responsible for spreading propaganda and hatred, not those who get swept up in it. I believe that the politicians responsible for this war on both sides deserve to be jailed for war crimes. Not a single Israeli civilian, military personnel, or anyone else for that matter deserves to die. Simple as that. Bombing children playing on a beach and you say they are being careful to avoid civilian casualties. What a load of crap. And fuck your moral calculus, its wrong, plain and simple. Israel has been taking land, murdering innocent civilians with no provocation and generally acting like bullies for years now. You say that Israel has a right to defend itself, but if they actually do so in any way it is horribly offensive to you. I'm going to call you evil, because your are. I'm going to call you cowardly, because you are. Read the post that you conveniently failed to quote properly. Only one side is responsible for this war, only one side is guilty of war crimes. The bombing of the 4 children was a tragic mistake - and no Israeli, not a single one is cheering - the kind of tragic mistake that unavoidably happen in every war. I'm gonna quote Netanyahu as he put it very well: "We [Israel] protect our civilians with missiles, Hamas protects its missiles with civilians." As I said - good versus evil.
So i'm supposed to believe you over UN human rights chief Navi Pillay about these war crimes right?
You seem unbiased.
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On July 23 2014 23:06 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 23:03 mdb wrote:
Why is nobody commenting that palestines are using children and women as live shields? Even if they are, the Israel can still choose to not kill them. Those live shields are basically hostages. Would you kill all hostages in a bank to get to the bank robbers?
First you compare israelis to nazis, now this...
From what I know (from israeli friend I admit), the palestines are basicaly putting women and children in the areas from where they shoot the rockets to Israel...come on, you cant justify this.
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Why can't people be sane, i don't understand it.
It's always "Yeah but 50 years ago x" "Butbut 900 years ago y". That kind of argument will NEVER lead to a peaceful settlement of any conflict, because land changed owners so much in the past that everyone has some kind of claim on everything. Add in religion to make stuff even more stupid, and you have people killing each other and wasting absurd amounts of ressource over 60+ years for no apparent reason.
Don't try to find a solution that incorporates the past and fits for everyone, because that doesn't exist. Find a solution that works NOW, and make everyone agree to make it work in the future. Imagine the Israel & Palestine now if they had just done that 60 years ago instead of being fucking greedy for shit that doesn't even matter and fight nonstop. Seriously, for you as a citizen it is irrelevant how much land your country has. It does not matter in the slightest. Are people in the Netherlands or Liechtenstein worse off than in France? No, of course not. The size of a country is only relevant for the dickwaving of the leaders of those.
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On July 23 2014 23:05 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 23:03 mdb wrote:
Why is nobody commenting that palestines are using children and women as live shields? They think it's an Israeli media propaganda -_-
It is. What has been proven is that Israel did use palestinians civiliand as shield.
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On July 23 2014 23:06 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 23:03 mdb wrote:
Why is nobody commenting that palestines are using children and women as live shields? Even if they are, the Israel can still choose to not kill them. Those live shields are basically hostages. Would you kill all hostages in a bank to get to the bank robbers?
Can we stop with the black and white, good and evil world views already?
I am not saying I agree with everything the Isrealiens are doing, but you can understand (again that doesnt mean you argree with it) a government trying to stop missiles from being fired on your country. If Hamas stores these missiles in schools and hospitals then they are to blame for the casualties that arise during the destruction of those missile launchers. Isreal politicians think they have to chose which innocent people are more important to them and in this case they chose their own (which most governments would do).
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On July 23 2014 23:00 BetterThanThisPlace wrote:
I'm gonna quote Netanyahu as he put it very well: "We [Israel] protect our civilians with missiles, Hamas protects its missiles with civilians." As I said - good versus evil.
Welcome to the horrible truth of the matter. The Isreali opinion. Puts it all in perspective doesn't it?
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On July 23 2014 23:11 Simberto wrote:
Why can't people be sane, i don't understand it.
It's always "Yeah but 50 years ago x" "Butbut 900 years ago y". That kind of argument will NEVER lead to a peaceful settlement of any conflict, because land changed owners so much in the past that everyone has some kind of claim on everything. Add in religion to make stuff even more stupid, and you have people killing each other and wasting absurd amounts of ressource over 60+ years for no apparent reason.
Don't try to find a solution that incorporates the past and fits for everyone, because that doesn't exist. Find a solution that works NOW, and make everyone agree to make it work in the future. Imagine the Israel & Palestine now if they had just done that 60 years ago instead of being fucking greedy for shit that doesn't even matter and fight nonstop. Seriously, for you as a citizen it is irrelevant how much land your country has. It does not matter in the slightest. Are people in the Netherlands or Liechtenstein worse off than in France? No, of course not. The size of a country is only relevant for the dickwaving of the leaders of those.
Negotiations between extremists on one side and extremists on the opposite side will never work.
Israel wants the extermination and destruction of Palestine and vica versa.
Peace will have to be forced upon them, or it will never come i'm afraid.
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When I see a fucking Israeli Wedding that has to disband and is disrupted due to Hamas shooting fucking missiles at them I don't really give a rats ass how many of them are dying
EVERY SINGLE TIME that Israel has taken land from Palestine it has been due to Palestinian Aggression.
If you think this region is volatile right now, regarding Israel, all I have to ask of you is this: What country is next?
It will most definitely be European, or North American
What about the Berlin Olympics?
What about 9/11?
Even if one is a ruse, and the other is targetting a specific group, I ask of you, would you not defend your home, your family?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 23 2014 23:05 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 23:03 mdb wrote:
Why is nobody commenting that palestines are using children and women as live shields? They think it's an Israeli media propaganda -_-
even if it isnt, isreal acts like fucking idiots. just give them their fucking small piece of country, there will never be peace otherwise.
Also, someone who is being pushed to a wall like that will do anything to defend
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On July 23 2014 23:11 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 23:06 -Archangel- wrote:On July 23 2014 23:03 mdb wrote:
Why is nobody commenting that palestines are using children and women as live shields? Even if they are, the Israel can still choose to not kill them. Those live shields are basically hostages. Would you kill all hostages in a bank to get to the bank robbers? First you compare israelis to nazis, now this... From what I know (from israeli friend I admit), the palestines are basicaly putting women and children in the areas from where they shoot the rockets to Israel...come on, you cant justify this.
No, I was comparing tactics both use(d) and why it gives them a bad reputation around the world.
I cannot justify civilians dying against their will by Israel rocket?
Israel are not only ones to blame in this, but they did fire the rocket. As I said, this is a typical hostage situation and nowhere in the world it is OK to sacrifice hostages to get to the bad guys.
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On July 23 2014 23:08 JimmiC wrote:
Nobody is right when everybody is wrong.
There is good and bad on both sides, and sadly at times of war the bad stand out and everyone focus's on them. The only thing that will ever end this education, and by unbiased people. There is currently to much hate, fear and bias on either side.
To behooved to moral equivalency to call a spade a spade, eh? On side is defending itself against militants targeting its children and one is defending itself through very limited means. Yet they are somehow equally bad.
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On July 23 2014 23:13 Bill Murray wrote:
When I see a fucking Israeli Wedding that has to disband and is disrupted due to Hamas shooting fucking missiles at them I don't really give a rats ass how many of them are dying
EVERY SINGLE TIME that Israel has taken land from Palestine it has been due to Palestinian Aggression.
If you think this region is volatile right now, regarding Israel, all I have to ask of you is this: What country is next?
It will most definitely be European, or North American
What about the Berlin Olympics?
What about 9/11?
Even if one is a ruse, and the other is targetting a specific group, I ask of you, would you not defend your home, your family?
You have been watching too much Fox TV. Cut down on it, it is bad for you.
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On July 23 2014 23:13 Bill Murray wrote:
When I see a fucking Israeli Wedding that has to disband and is disrupted due to Hamas shooting fucking missiles at them I don't really give a rats ass how many of them are dying
EVERY SINGLE TIME that Israel has taken land from Palestine it has been due to Palestinian Aggression.
If you think this region is volatile right now, regarding Israel, all I have to ask of you is this: What country is next?
It will most definitely be European, or North American
What about the Berlin Olympics?
What about 9/11?
Even if one is a ruse, and the other is targetting a specific group, I ask of you, would you not defend your home, your family?
Oh poor Israelis.
They had to postpone their wedding while their government deliberately murders innocent children on a beach.
At least they have the comfort that you don't give a shit.
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EPT
