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On July 23 2014 22:04 IcemanAsi wrote:
I ask again, my daughter was born in Israel, as an Israeli citizen, in what way do you think of her as a trespasser?
In history classes, we learn history.
It depends, do you live in an "illegal" settlement ? Have you bulldozed houses in order to erect your own ? You can see where these sentiments are coming from, right ?
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On July 23 2014 21:56 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 21:31 IcemanAsi wrote:On July 23 2014 21:17 -Archangel- wrote:On July 23 2014 20:45 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2014 10:24 Nyxisto wrote:
No. By the overwhelming majority of countries that are members of the UN (83%) Israel is a recognized state. And many of these acclaimed Israel-critics are called anti-Semitic, because they are in fact anti-Semitic. It's this new right thing where you say all the stuff right-wingers say but pretend like you're not one of them.
I'm really ashamed to see people chanting anti-Semitic shit in Berlin and seeing people setting synagogues on fire in France.
The only thing Israel occupies are the Golan heights. Israel itself is not considered an "occupying power". That's just plain wrong. And I'm really ashamed about people calling everyone an anti-semite or a blind anti-american who criticises israelic actions. Really, in this case none of the two sides is better than the other. It's two parties killing each other for over half a century (laying appart the reasons). To be against that stupidity has nothing to do with being anti semitic because you aren't opposed to jewish people because they are jewish but because of their actions. Same goes for the hamas. Or am I an anti-islamic guy because I think the hamas acts just as stupid? If I'm an anti-semetic for calling israel out, I'm also certainly an anti-islamic. Surprisingly enough, I never get called that way, let alone in a negative way. TL;DR: People who kill other people are shit. Except it is not equal blame. It never was. If you run into a jungle with a machinegun and gun down a Gorilla, is that equal blame? Yes that Gorilla would probably kill you for intruding into his territory and if he somehow managed to get to you before being gunned down. But you came there and you control the situation with your machinegun. I am sorry for the crude comparison but that is exactly what is happening here. People with 100x more military power are bullying those without. They have more power to stop this and as a result more responsibility. If war continues they are more to blame than those that cannot do anything anyways. Israel if they wanted could kill everyone person in Palestine and nobody in Palestine could do shit about it, while Palestine could not do something similar in 0.000001% cases. Israel controls the situation and is mostly responsible. Allow me to ask you a question. My daughter Noga ( the hebrew name of the star venus, also meaning 'glow' ) was born in Israel a few months ago. I was born in Israel. My father was born in Israel. We've lived here for three generations, born here and lived here and will die here. My daughter, how did she "intrude" on someone else? She was simply born here, so was I. if i remember correctly, religion preaches/teaches collective guilt based on an original or ancestral sin. the sin of the forefathers kind of thing. hell, even germans have their own wiki-guilt page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_collective_guilt. do the 'simply born here' israelis, learn that they're at least trespassers there?. what do they learn in history classes?. i find the notion that you get to own the land you're born on to pretty dangerous.
So, by your logic, please give North Dobruja back to us. 10x
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On July 23 2014 22:15 HeatEXTEND wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:04 IcemanAsi wrote:
I ask again, my daughter was born in Israel, as an Israeli citizen, in what way do you think of her as a trespasser?
In history classes, we learn history. It depends, do you live in an "illegal" settlement ? Have you bulldozed houses in order to erect your own ? You can see where these sentiments are coming from, right ?
I live in Givatayim, a suburb of Tel-Aviv.
My parents house is in Yavne, and was built by my father on what was a sand dune before.
All very much within the 1967 Armistice line
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UN Human Rights boss Navi Pillay says Israel's military actions in Gaza "could amount to war crimes"
The UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626
Well it took couple decades of massacre and genocide in multiple episodes for UN to aknowledge that there might be human rights violations, of course no one would seriously believe that they are just slow on processing the evidences.
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United Kingdom10026 Posts
On July 23 2014 22:19 accela wrote:Show nested quote +UN Human Rights boss Navi Pillay says Israel's military actions in Gaza "could amount to war crimes"
The UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626Well it took couple decades of massacre and genocide in multiple episodes for UN to aknowledge that there might be human rights violations, of course no one would seriously believe that they are just slow on processing the evidences.
It doesn't matter what the UN think.
Projected timeline of events:
7/23/14: UN says Israeli actions may amount to war crimes
7/24/14: Israel rejects this as biased
Then nothing happens.
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On July 23 2014 22:19 IcemanAsi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:15 HeatEXTEND wrote:On July 23 2014 22:04 IcemanAsi wrote:
I ask again, my daughter was born in Israel, as an Israeli citizen, in what way do you think of her as a trespasser?
In history classes, we learn history. It depends, do you live in an "illegal" settlement ? Have you bulldozed houses in order to erect your own ? You can see where these sentiments are coming from, right ? I live in Givatayim, a suburb of Tel-Aviv. My parents house is in Yavne, and was built by my father on what was a sand dune before. All very much within the 1967 Armistice line
The point I was addressing wasn't exactly "where do you live"  , but anyway, back to work for me  .
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To all the guys here that scream "GENOCIDE!!%@%@%!!!" and the such, I have few question for you:
1. What do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
2. What do you think will happen if all neighbours will do the same?
3. How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield?
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way?
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On July 23 2014 22:04 IcemanAsi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 21:56 xM(Z wrote:On July 23 2014 21:31 IcemanAsi wrote:On July 23 2014 21:17 -Archangel- wrote:On July 23 2014 20:45 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2014 10:24 Nyxisto wrote:
No. By the overwhelming majority of countries that are members of the UN (83%) Israel is a recognized state. And many of these acclaimed Israel-critics are called anti-Semitic, because they are in fact anti-Semitic. It's this new right thing where you say all the stuff right-wingers say but pretend like you're not one of them.
I'm really ashamed to see people chanting anti-Semitic shit in Berlin and seeing people setting synagogues on fire in France.
The only thing Israel occupies are the Golan heights. Israel itself is not considered an "occupying power". That's just plain wrong. And I'm really ashamed about people calling everyone an anti-semite or a blind anti-american who criticises israelic actions. Really, in this case none of the two sides is better than the other. It's two parties killing each other for over half a century (laying appart the reasons). To be against that stupidity has nothing to do with being anti semitic because you aren't opposed to jewish people because they are jewish but because of their actions. Same goes for the hamas. Or am I an anti-islamic guy because I think the hamas acts just as stupid? If I'm an anti-semetic for calling israel out, I'm also certainly an anti-islamic. Surprisingly enough, I never get called that way, let alone in a negative way. TL;DR: People who kill other people are shit. Except it is not equal blame. It never was. If you run into a jungle with a machinegun and gun down a Gorilla, is that equal blame? Yes that Gorilla would probably kill you for intruding into his territory and if he somehow managed to get to you before being gunned down. But you came there and you control the situation with your machinegun. I am sorry for the crude comparison but that is exactly what is happening here. People with 100x more military power are bullying those without. They have more power to stop this and as a result more responsibility. If war continues they are more to blame than those that cannot do anything anyways. Israel if they wanted could kill everyone person in Palestine and nobody in Palestine could do shit about it, while Palestine could not do something similar in 0.000001% cases. Israel controls the situation and is mostly responsible. Allow me to ask you a question. My daughter Noga ( the hebrew name of the star venus, also meaning 'glow' ) was born in Israel a few months ago. I was born in Israel. My father was born in Israel. We've lived here for three generations, born here and lived here and will die here. My daughter, how did she "intrude" on someone else? She was simply born here, so was I. if i remember correctly, religion preaches/teaches collective guilt based on an original or ancestral sin. the sin of the forefathers kind of thing. hell, even germans have their own wiki-guilt page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_collective_guilt. do the 'simply born here' israelis, learn that they're at least trespassers there?. what do they learn in history classes?. i find the notion that you get to own the land you're born on to pretty dangerous. The idea of citizenship is based on birth in almost all countries, it is almost always that simple. You are a German citizen if you are the child of a German citizen. I ask again, my daughter was born in Israel, as an Israeli citizen, in what way do you think of her as a trespasser? In history classes, we learn history.
I find myself agreeing with you on most points, and i'm quite convinced that, if the "left-wing" in Israel had more power, the whole conflict could and/or would go another way.
There won't be an easy way out of the crisis, at any point in time. Certainly not with the right wing in charge (and yeah, i'm still extremely offended by the bullshit some of them pulled when Steinmeier was talking in the knesset). Could you tell us from firsthand-experience, do you think your opinion is accepted in Israel?
In all honesty, the best way to end this conflict for the palestinensians, get the UN to cough up the money to artificially create an island on the coast of Israel/Lebanon/Egypt. The conflict in it's roots isn't made by palestines nor israelis, so it shouldn't be up to them to solve it by themselves. I learned as a child that i'm responsible for my mistakes, that should work on country-scale too.
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United Kingdom10026 Posts
On July 23 2014 22:31 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
To all the guys here that scream "GENOCIDE!!%@%@%!!!" and the such, I have few question for you:
1. What do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
2. What do you think will happen if all neighbours will do the same?
3. How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield?
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way?
Yeah its definitely not genocide. Just decades of systematic oppression and occupation.
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On July 23 2014 21:31 IcemanAsi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 21:17 -Archangel- wrote:On July 23 2014 20:45 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2014 10:24 Nyxisto wrote:
No. By the overwhelming majority of countries that are members of the UN (83%) Israel is a recognized state. And many of these acclaimed Israel-critics are called anti-Semitic, because they are in fact anti-Semitic. It's this new right thing where you say all the stuff right-wingers say but pretend like you're not one of them.
I'm really ashamed to see people chanting anti-Semitic shit in Berlin and seeing people setting synagogues on fire in France.
The only thing Israel occupies are the Golan heights. Israel itself is not considered an "occupying power". That's just plain wrong. And I'm really ashamed about people calling everyone an anti-semite or a blind anti-american who criticises israelic actions. Really, in this case none of the two sides is better than the other. It's two parties killing each other for over half a century (laying appart the reasons). To be against that stupidity has nothing to do with being anti semitic because you aren't opposed to jewish people because they are jewish but because of their actions. Same goes for the hamas. Or am I an anti-islamic guy because I think the hamas acts just as stupid? If I'm an anti-semetic for calling israel out, I'm also certainly an anti-islamic. Surprisingly enough, I never get called that way, let alone in a negative way. TL;DR: People who kill other people are shit. Except it is not equal blame. It never was. If you run into a jungle with a machinegun and gun down a Gorilla, is that equal blame? Yes that Gorilla would probably kill you for intruding into his territory and if he somehow managed to get to you before being gunned down. But you came there and you control the situation with your machinegun. I am sorry for the crude comparison but that is exactly what is happening here. People with 100x more military power are bullying those without. They have more power to stop this and as a result more responsibility. If war continues they are more to blame than those that cannot do anything anyways. Israel if they wanted could kill everyone person in Palestine and nobody in Palestine could do shit about it, while Palestine could not do something similar in 0.000001% cases. Israel controls the situation and is mostly responsible. Allow me to ask you a question. My daughter Noga ( the hebrew name of the star venus, also meaning 'glow' ) was born in Israel a few months ago. I was born in Israel. My father was born in Israel. We've lived here for three generations, born here and lived here and will die here. My daughter, how did she "intrude" on someone else? She was simply born here, so was I.
We are not talking about the same thing here. I was talking about people trying to make blame equal.
You are talking about different issue here.
If I was to expand my Gorilla example you would be a kid of an original guy that build a house on the tree next to the Gorilla and still holds the machinegun pointed at the Gorilla's son. In the meantime other people killed other Gorillas there and few humans died as well and Gorillas don't like you humans a result. What now? Gorillas still cannot do anything about its situation due to your machineguns. Power is in your hands and your daughters.
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no words for israel anymore. they do whatever they feel like, no1 does anything against their behaviour cuz of their history. really, really sad.
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On July 23 2014 22:31 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
To all the guys here that scream "GENOCIDE!!%@%@%!!!" and the such, I have few question for you:
1. What do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
2. What do you think will happen if all neighbours will do the same?
3. How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield?
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way?
Rather ironically, you should turn that around and replace Isreal with the Palestinians seeing as it was their lack of fighting ability and their people who are far more likel to be kidnapped and suffering far more from directed rocket attacks from beyond their capability to defend against and leaders that get assassinated all the time
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On July 23 2014 22:35 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:31 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
To all the guys here that scream "GENOCIDE!!%@%@%!!!" and the such, I have few question for you:
1. What do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
2. What do you think will happen if all neighbours will do the same?
3. How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield?
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way? Rather ironically, you should turn that around and replace Isreal with the Palestinians seeing as it was their lack of fighting ability and their people who are far more likel to be kidnapped and suffering far more from directed rocket attacks from beyond their capability to defend against and leaders that get assassinated all the time
You and the second guy didn't answer any of my questions.
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On July 23 2014 22:19 IcemanAsi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:15 HeatEXTEND wrote:On July 23 2014 22:04 IcemanAsi wrote:
I ask again, my daughter was born in Israel, as an Israeli citizen, in what way do you think of her as a trespasser?
In history classes, we learn history. It depends, do you live in an "illegal" settlement ? Have you bulldozed houses in order to erect your own ? You can see where these sentiments are coming from, right ? I live in Givatayim, a suburb of Tel-Aviv. My parents house is in Yavne, and was built by my father on what was a sand dune before. All very much within the 1967 Armistice line
And why is your personnal experience relevant ? Nobody sane contradict the right for israel to exist nor the 1967 Borders, at least in the pro palestinian side in occidentals countries. The problem is : israel refuse to stop gaza's occupation, kill innocents, israelis deputee have repeatedly said some troubling racist things (kill all palestinians women because they infant snakes ?), refuse to stop settlements and colonialism of the palestinians territory.
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On July 23 2014 22:31 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
To all the guys here that scream "GENOCIDE!!%@%@%!!!" and the such, I have few question for you:
1. What do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
2. What do you think will happen if all neighbours will do the same?
3. How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield?
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way?
I think nobody is realistically asking that Israel lays down all weapons and goes Woodstock on Palestina.
You just have to stop killing 100 civilians for each 1 of yours.
Do you know how Nazi fought partisans in my part of the world during WW2? They would line up civilians from near by villages and shoot them if partisans hiding amongst them didn't surrender. You know what people think about Nazi?! Yes?!
Now replace soldiers with guns with missiles killing civilians and executions with random civilian deaths. Both had same purpose, to make fighting men stop fighting on the fear of random civilians dying.
When you understand this you will understand why most of the world hates Israel tactics.
Then you need to make an honest turn in politics where you will make the other side believe you truly want peace. Warmongering will not ever accomplish this.
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United Kingdom10026 Posts
On July 23 2014 22:38 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:35 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On July 23 2014 22:31 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
To all the guys here that scream "GENOCIDE!!%@%@%!!!" and the such, I have few question for you:
1. What do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
2. What do you think will happen if all neighbours will do the same?
3. How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield?
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way? Rather ironically, you should turn that around and replace Isreal with the Palestinians seeing as it was their lack of fighting ability and their people who are far more likel to be kidnapped and suffering far more from directed rocket attacks from beyond their capability to defend against and leaders that get assassinated all the time You and the second guy didn't answer any of my questions.
Your questions are entirely excuses for killing innocent civilians, and as such they are not valid.
How will you respond as a leader of a country if your country get hit by kidnappings, rocket fire by a terrorist organization that fires out of schools and hospitals and using the inhabitants as a human shield?
This is a lie. 100% untrue. Don't believe what your county's propaganda tells you. Its a simple case of dehumanizing the enemy. Resist the urge to believe.
What do you think will happen if Israel will decide to stop fightning, disbanding all arms?
This combined with actually talking and pursuing peace as a genuine option is probably a good idea. They don't have to disband of course, but just stop using their military to oppress and bully Palestinian civilians.
2. What do you think will happen if all neighbours will do the same?
They never would disband, like Israel, but again it would help peace negotiations.
Peace isn't going to come from fighting and escalation.
4. If this is genocide, how will you call the free for all in Syria? How will you call USA invasion of Iraq and Afganistan? The drones that have no problem targeting Terrorists even if children are along the way?
None of these are genocide. They are all human rights abuses, and despicable acts of cowardice.
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On July 23 2014 22:40 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:19 IcemanAsi wrote:On July 23 2014 22:15 HeatEXTEND wrote:On July 23 2014 22:04 IcemanAsi wrote:
I ask again, my daughter was born in Israel, as an Israeli citizen, in what way do you think of her as a trespasser?
In history classes, we learn history. It depends, do you live in an "illegal" settlement ? Have you bulldozed houses in order to erect your own ? You can see where these sentiments are coming from, right ? I live in Givatayim, a suburb of Tel-Aviv. My parents house is in Yavne, and was built by my father on what was a sand dune before. All very much within the 1967 Armistice line And why is your personnal experience is relevant ? Nobody sane contradict the right for israel to exist nor the 1967 Borders, at least in the pro palestinian side in occidentals countries. The problem is : israel refuse to stop gaza's occupation, kill innocents, israelis deputee have repeatedly said some troubling racist things (kill all palestinians women because they infàt snakes ?), refuse to stop settlements and colonialism of the palestinians territory.
"And why is your personnal experience is relevant ?"
Because I was asked where I live.
Would you like to ask a question?
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On July 23 2014 22:24 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:19 accela wrote:UN Human Rights boss Navi Pillay says Israel's military actions in Gaza "could amount to war crimes"
The UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626Well it took couple decades of massacre and genocide in multiple episodes for UN to aknowledge that there might be human rights violations, of course no one would seriously believe that they are just slow on processing the evidences. It doesn't matter what the UN think. Projected timeline of events: 7/23/14: UN says Israeli actions may amount to war crimes 7/24/14: Israel rejects this as biased Then nothing happens.
Why not be honest and say that Israeli Jews deserve to die? Isn't that what you people are too cowardly to say?
No country in the history of warfare has taken greater care to limit civilian casualties than Israel in Protective Edge - from 100s of thousands of leaflets of warning to phone calls before practically every single bombing (that allow Hamas militants to escape as well). Hamas on the other hand initiated the conflict with the aim of killing as many civilians as possible, preferably children as their attempts to hit schools and kindergartens make clear. Hamas does its best to have their people killed for the PR-war against Israel - it is well documented how they launch rockets from schools and hospitals, how they tell their people to ignore the Israeli warnings. Hell, MEMRI has recordings of Hamas officials plainly calling on their people to die for the cause.
Every single death in this conflict is on Hamas head, Israel has a fucking right to defend itself. The moral calculus here is as plain as it ever gets when it comes to war - this is good versus evil.
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United Kingdom10026 Posts
On July 23 2014 22:46 BetterThanThisPlace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 23 2014 22:19 accela wrote:UN Human Rights boss Navi Pillay says Israel's military actions in Gaza "could amount to war crimes"
The UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626Well it took couple decades of massacre and genocide in multiple episodes for UN to aknowledge that there might be human rights violations, of course no one would seriously believe that they are just slow on processing the evidences. It doesn't matter what the UN think. Projected timeline of events: 7/23/14: UN says Israeli actions may amount to war crimes 7/24/14: Israel rejects this as biased Then nothing happens. Why not be honest and say that Israeli Jews deserve to die? Isn't that what you people are too cowardly to say?
That's bullshit. I never even insinuated that, and neither did anyone else on here. Stuff like this is a simple way of avoiding actual discussion. In fact if you read my earlier post on page 1 I explicitly say that it is the fault of those responsible for spreading propaganda and hatred, not those who get swept up in it.
I believe that the politicians responsible for this war on both sides deserve to be jailed for war crimes. Not a single Israeli civilian, military personnel, or anyone else for that matter deserves to die. Simple as that.
Bombing children playing on a beach and you say they are being careful to avoid civilian casualties. What a load of crap.
And fuck your moral calculus, its wrong, plain and simple. Israel has been taking land, murdering innocent civilians with no provocation and generally acting like bullies for years now.
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On July 23 2014 22:50 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2014 22:46 BetterThanThisPlace wrote:On July 23 2014 22:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 23 2014 22:19 accela wrote:UN Human Rights boss Navi Pillay says Israel's military actions in Gaza "could amount to war crimes"
The UN's top human rights official has condemned Israel's military actions in the Gaza Strip, saying that war crimes may have been committed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626Well it took couple decades of massacre and genocide in multiple episodes for UN to aknowledge that there might be human rights violations, of course no one would seriously believe that they are just slow on processing the evidences. It doesn't matter what the UN think. Projected timeline of events: 7/23/14: UN says Israeli actions may amount to war crimes 7/24/14: Israel rejects this as biased Then nothing happens. Why not be honest and say that Israeli Jews deserve to die? Isn't that what you people are too cowardly to say? That's bullshit. I never even insinuated that, and neither did anyone else on here. Stuff like this is a simple way of avoiding actual discussion. In fact if you read my earlier post on page 1 I explicitly say that it is the fault of those responsible for spreading propaganda and hatred, not those who get swept up in it. I believe that the politicians responsible for this war on both sides deserve to be jailed for war crimes. Not a single Israeli civilian, military personnel, or anyone else for that matter deserves to die. Simple as that. Bombing children playing on a beach and you say they are being careful to avoid civilian casualties. What a load of crap. And fuck your moral calculus, its wrong, plain and simple. Israel has been taking land, murdering innocent civilians with no provocation and generally acting like bullies for years now.
You say that Israel has a right to defend itself, but if they actually do so it is horribly offensive to you. I'm going to call you evil, because your are. I'm going to call you cowardly, because you are.
Read the post that you conveniently failed to quote properly. Only one side is responsible for this war, only one side is guilty of war crimes. The bombing of the 4 children was a tragic mistake - and no Israeli, not a single one is cheering - the kind of tragic mistake that unavoidably happen in every war.
I'm gonna quote Netanyahu as he put it very well: "We [Israel] protect our civilians with missiles, Hamas protects its missiles with civilians." As I said - good versus evil.
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EPT
