Malaysian airliner shot down over Eastern Ukraine - Page 60

On July 22 2014 10:03 m4ini wrote:
Not to mention, if there was a fighterjet following, the flight recorders will tell (i think they record radar contacts, yes?).

On July 22 2014 10:03 m4ini wrote:


Didn't know they claimed that the jet followed the airliner for ages on the same altitude before shooting it down.

I have to correct myself though, the frogfoot does not reach 33k feet. Nyxisto has it kinda right, but not quite. 23k feet is the service ceiling of the SU-25 clean. Means, no weapons, only partial fuelload. Since it's a ground-attack plane, to have AA missiles loaded it's safe to assume it was fully kitted weaponwise (doesn't make sense to send your ground-attackplane with only AA missiles into the air). Fully kitted the service ceiling of the frogfoot is 16000 feet. It doesn't have afterburners (i assume the ukraine wouldn't have the most recent SU25TMs), so it won't go much higher.

Not to mention (afaik) that even IF it'd reach 33000 feet huffing and puffing, it would be too slow to follow MH17.

But doesn't change the fact that it'll be pretty easy to distinguish between a small missile and a BUK hit. Not to mention, if there was a fighterjet following, the flight recorders will tell (i think they record radar contacts, yes?).

On July 22 2014 10:18 micronesia wrote:

No... any radar on an airliner basically faces forward. The flight records would not record jets following a plane due to 'radar contacts.'

On July 22 2014 10:18 ticklishmusic wrote:
IMO, if a civilian jetliner was being followed by a fighter jet there's a good chance (nah, who am I kidding, it's pretty much 100%) they would notice (you know, radar and whatnot).

On July 22 2014 10:21 m4ini wrote:


Well that's.. hm. So basically they wouldn't know if they were followed, right? Since if you don't know that there's a jet behind you, you wouldn't radio him.

Do flightcontrols/towers record their showings? As in, some flight coordinator had to have MH17 on his screen when it disappeared - does that get recorded?

Dumb question maybe, i have no idea though.

On July 22 2014 10:23 Noldo wrote:
I just love how most western countries know who to blame.
Evidences? Investigations? Haha, noone needs it, your diplomats already knows who and with what weapon shooted the plane.
Good luck in finding truth with that biases.

On July 22 2014 10:27 ticklishmusic wrote:


So we know the truth but we are biased so we don't know the truth. That's not a circular argument, that's like a Moebius Strip argument.

It is all recorded. Unless you are out in the open ocean, over the Himalayas, etc.

edit: For those who don't know, one of the two black boxes is basically a microphone of cockpit conversation; the second black box records flight data, e.g., altitude, speed, heading, wing/engine settings.

I just love how most western countries know who to blame.
Evidences? Investigations? Haha, noone needs it, your diplomats already knows who and with what weapon shooted the plane.
Good luck in finding truth with that biases.

Simple fact is: nobody know truth about that flight now (Except those, who shooted it). But we can see, what your diplomats think about that.

On July 22 2014 10:34 m4ini wrote:

So does your government. And the freedom fighters from your country. I assume you read the bullshit of dead bodies before the plane started and all the other fairy tales. Nobody denies some bias, but at least most people here use common sense. What your government/medias report is just pure idiocy. I take everything i read with a grain of salt, but i stopped reading russian sources alltogether, because they don't report anything of value.

On July 22 2014 10:51 Noldo wrote:

Our government is shit.
And freedom fighters too, just like anyone who base his actions on massmedia information and emotions.
Also I almost doesnt read our media, because we have no good media now x_x
But i can understand, why ru and ua media and goverments acting like that. Its informational war, between them.
And western countries just completely on one side with ua, but tries to represent themselves as fair and neutral. And that is funny.

Ah, also i tried to read your media several times, but all that attempts was unsuccessfull - just like in ru or ua sites i saw no articles without bias.

On July 22 2014 11:17 ticklishmusic wrote:


EDIT: dumb comment, i should read the article

On July 22 2014 10:34 m4ini wrote:


Should be easy to tell then if there actually was another plane following MH17. Since the ukraine-thread, i refuse to believe anything coming from russian media, so i don't know if they based their "version" on the recordings of the traffic controller.



So does your government. And the freedom fighters from your country. I assume you read the bullshit of dead bodies before the plane started and all the other fairy tales. Nobody denies some bias, but at least most people here use common sense. What your government/medias report is just pure idiocy. I take everything i read with a grain of salt, but i stopped reading russian sources alltogether, because they don't report anything of value.



Also fact: all evidence so far points to the rebels. Starting from their (now deleted) tweets, their resigning chief, all the pictures and videos taken of BUKs in the vincinity of the crash, etc. People here actually filter their content, for example there are videos out there from "questionable sources" (dailymail, etc) showing a BUK on a trailer being transported through russia away from the ukrainian border, stuff like that. All you read here is pretty much solid, and by far not everything the western media in general reports.

edit: don't know if it was posted already, but this is the crashsite pictured by a satellite

On July 22 2014 11:23 GreenHorizons wrote:



Wow that was freakishly close to hitting peoples homes with the bulk of the debris. Makes me wonder if they had any control over the plane as it went down. Maybe it was just dumb luck that more people didn't die, but seems like that is a small silver lining to the incident itself (although I'm sure it does little to nothing for those who experienced losses from this tragedy).

On July 22 2014 11:23 GreenHorizons wrote:



Wow that was freakishly close to hitting peoples homes with the bulk of the debris. Makes me wonder if they had any control over the plane as it went down. Maybe it was just dumb luck that more people didn't die, but seems like that is a small silver lining to the incident itself (although I'm sure it does little to nothing for those who experienced losses from this tragedy).