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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On October 26 2006 23:32 Hot_Bid wrote: its great  that you want to protect the rights of horny, curious young girls (what an activist you are)lol! | ||
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j0ehoe
United States2705 Posts
On October 27 2006 02:56 Pika Chu wrote: And luring a pedo is not the same as a pedo raping a child or going to him and offering something in exchange for money or stuff. Just like a girl has a big fault if she arouses a boy, and afterwards she refuses to have sex and gets raped. youve got to be fucking kidding me. no one likes blue balls, but that justifies raping a girl and puts her at fault? So imo what those guys do at that website is wrong, and i also believe the kids (the one who pretend to be kids) who work for them have some mental disorders. There are some mental disorders who apply to this actually. I dont remember the name actually but i remember hearing about it at some seminar and the doctor was talking as example of girls who have this problem and like to arouse boys and "get them hot" and leave them after just so they have a feeling of superiority. this has to be the worst analogy ever. the people with the mental disorders are the ones who are attempting to have physical and emotional relationships with minors, not the people trying to prevent a kid getting taken advantage of. | ||
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NewbSaibot
3849 Posts
On October 27 2006 02:56 Pika Chu wrote: You dont understand why theyre doing this. The idea isnt just to remove innocent pedo's from our streets for no other reason than we just dont like them. The man talking to this boy here obtained a specific address, and would have obviously followed through with his intentions. There was a 100% chance that he was going to rape this young child (who was an agent in disguise). If you dont prosecute anyone until a crime has been committed, then what good are you doing? Ok so 1 person's life gets ruined by default, THEN the guy goes to jail? Sorry, but i can sleep at night knowing we are prosecuting people who havent committed any real crime yet, because they have expressed every intent to commit that crime, and the childs life is worth saving rather than your desire to preserve the morality of law. I agree to chibi here In sociology we learn there are 6 types of victims, by the grade of fault: - completely innocent victims - victims who have aknowledge (bad spelling i think) of the dangers they are exposed to (firefighters, policemans etc) - victims with a slight guilt (let's say.. victims that have a provocative comportment, ie luring someone into commiting a crime) - the victims also commit the "crime" (cases of mutilation, suicide etc) - the victims who have same guilt as the commiter - the victims have a bigger guilt (cases of self defence etc) These categorys are also used by the juridical system. can someone tell me what "date rape" means btw? And luring a pedo is not the same as a pedo raping a child or going to him and offering something in exchange for money or stuff. Just like a girl has a big fault if she arouses a boy, and afterwards she refuses to have sex and gets raped. If your neighbor walked up to you, waved a gun in your face, and said "at 6pm tonight, I am going to shoot you", would you just sit there and wait for it to happen before calling the police? No, you would take a pre-emptive measure to protect yourself. Thats what we are doing with pedo's here. They are saying "hi, im going to rape a kid today", so we stop them, plain and simple. | ||
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j0ehoe
United States2705 Posts
On October 27 2006 09:06 NonY wrote: for the potential offender: intention: unknown. we assume that in every case that results in arrest, the intention was to actually do the sex crimes he talked about. action: lead a child to believe that he is going to do some sex acts with him/her, but never actually do any result: get arrested classic example of failure of the system: some guy who is trying to educate the children. he leads them to believe he is going to do a sex act, but when he shows up seeming like he'll do it, at the last second he stops and tries to teach the kid why it was bad for him to be accepting it. an example like this might be important to philosophers, and to some individuals, but i dont think it's very important to the practice of law. think of the loop holes that this logic would allow. you could apply it to anything. take a car theif, say hes got all the tools to break into a car and one night at 3 am, he heads to your house and preps himself to go break into your car. your neighbor sees this and calls the cops, who stop him before he actually commits the crime. however, because its so late, hes got the tools, he will most likey get nailed. using the logic of the quoted example, he could claim that he was gonna do it to prove to you that your honda parked on the street has a big chance of being stolen. different situation, same logic. you can also use this in say a drug sting. say you go to buy a few bags of coke. the guy uve been buying from is a narc. you get busted. using your philosophy example, you could claim that you were buying it to just go home and flush it and eliminate the chance of it getting to kids hands. or to show kids what it is to teach them its bad. who knows. i know you say that its not important to law, but in your second post you saw how we should probably condone the way they hunt down pedos. i think the real key is that a rational person would not use extreme measures as the examples, because he knows that he may be breaking the law. there are better ways to get your point across that do not bring into question if you are possibly breaking the law. the peds in the examples are clearly not rational people. would a rational person go after a young boy or girl, knowing they are a minor and it is against the law? | ||
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baal
10708 Posts
they are not arresting ppl about to commit a crime, they are inducing and seducing him into commiting it. They are throwing a wallet full of cash... if someone picks it up fucking owned by the cops wtf. In that particular case im strongly disgusted by the agency not the guy, the guy clearly has severe mental issues, yet he shows a concience he clearly states that he can only harm him, so he refuses to meet him , he repeats that several times. That guy should seek professional help for sure, but the "bait" should have ended way before that, but it didnt, he stated he didnt want to hurt him, but the "kid" kept seducing him, creating bonds with him earning his trust and creating afection, all that to send to jail some sick bastard who didnt have intentions to hurt this kid. And about the date rape wtf the bitch does hold responsability if she gets on purpouse a guy horny and leaves, actually many women enjoy to do that, and its playing with fire, obviously the rape isnt justified but she holds responsability. Wear a shirt that says "die niggers" in the getto and get stabbed... stabbing isnt justified but you definitelly share guilt. | ||
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jcp
Peru192 Posts
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nitram
Canada5412 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On October 27 2006 11:41 baal wrote: They are throwing a wallet full of cash... if someone picks it up fucking owned by the cops wtf. this analogy does not make sense. there is no law against picking up a wallet off the street, but there is against raping a kid. | ||
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jcp
Peru192 Posts
On October 26 2006 23:33 Chibi[OWNS] wrote: no , im against seducing people under false pretences and playing with the concepts of friendship and romance and trust in order to catch someone who MAY POSSIBLY be playing with the concepts of friendship and romance and trust in order to have a relationship with a younger person who MAY POSSIBLY be psycologically damaged by the experience (as if most relationships dont end in tears anyway) Its not seducing ,By the simple fact they even have thoughts of raping and molesting a child its already a crime and its the mentallity of a Child-Rapist wich a normal person obiously didnt think. Its better to prevent this kind of things by arresting all this mentally fucked up people even if they didnt actually do the Rape. | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On October 27 2006 10:08 ))(())(( wrote: youve got to be fucking kidding me. no one likes blue balls, but that justifies raping a girl and puts her at fault? this has to be the worst analogy ever. the people with the mental disorders are the ones who are attempting to have physical and emotional relationships with minors, not the people trying to prevent a kid getting taken advantage of. "youve got to be fucking kidding me. no one likes blue balls, but that justifies raping a girl and puts her at fault?" You don't understand anything i wrote, i did not say it's ONLY her fault but SHE HAS her part of fault. Let me tell you a story. I had a friend (she was 17, i was 18 so 2 years ago happened). One day she meet a cute 17 year boy. After 2-3 days the girl GOES AT HIS PLACE and the day after i hear from my friend the story that the girl got raped bla bla. Police came etc, alot of birocracy. After 4 days i was taking a walk with my best friend and we see the group (a group of boys and girls we used to hang with). So we go and talk with them and everybody was talking and blaming the guy and saying that if they catch him they'll kill him.. bla bla. After 5min i had enough of this and amaze everyone (less my best friend who had the same opinion as myself) and tell her to stop whining like an idiot. I told her she didn't got raped or if she did she has a big fault. She got annoyed and left. So, really if you had NO intention of having sex, WHAT THE HELL was she doing at her apartment? She came there by own will yes? She was not FORCED to go with him at his place yes? Don't tell me she is completely innocent and at 17years she has no ideea about what going to a boy's house mean. And i've heard more of this storys. How should we know the girl really got raped or she made sex with the guy and got angry/mad/upset/etc after and claim that the guy raped her? "this has to be the worst analogy ever. the people with the mental disorders are the ones who are attempting to have physical and emotional relationships with minors, not the people trying to prevent a kid getting taken advantage of" That is not a really an analogy. I'll explain it further. I will start with an example: If you are a girl, and you dedicate time to "catch" men that might rape someone, then you have some problems, some bigger mental problems even though that may be caused by traumas like actually being raped in the past, or sister etc. It's like going with a knife on the street at night threating people to kill them to see who would get a gun and kill/disarm you. Just as baal said: "They are throwing a wallet full of cash... if someone picks it up fucking owned by the cops wtf" right now i have to go, sorry for bad spelling and such and don't tell me again that this is a bad analogy. | ||
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jcp
Peru192 Posts
On October 27 2006 11:41 baal wrote: no thats fucking retarded cunt. (sorry but nick does look like a cunt) they are not arresting ppl about to commit a crime, they are inducing and seducing him into commiting it. They are throwing a wallet full of cash... if someone picks it up fucking owned by the cops wtf. In that particular case im strongly disgusted by the agency not the guy, the guy clearly has severe mental issues, yet he shows a concience he clearly states that he can only harm him, so he refuses to meet him , he repeats that several times. That guy should seek professional help for sure, but the "bait" should have ended way before that, but it didnt, he stated he didnt want to hurt him, but the "kid" kept seducing him, creating bonds with him earning his trust and creating afection, all that to send to jail some sick bastard who didnt have intentions to hurt this kid. And about the date rape wtf the bitch does hold responsability if she gets on purpouse a guy horny and leaves, actually many women enjoy to do that, and its playing with fire, obviously the rape isnt justified but she holds responsability. Wear a shirt that says "die niggers" in the getto and get stabbed... stabbing isnt justified but you definitelly share guilt. ITS hilarious how u think THE BOY is seducing the 54 year old man ,he is just following to the chat and see too which point that mentally fucked grandpa goes , and if u read the article hes mind its not very normal and he also admitted to have killed people. | ||
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lil.sis
China4650 Posts
don't get me wrong, i'm not defending the actions of these men, but the simple fact is that as american citizens they are guarenteed certain unalienable rights by our judicial system. one of these rights is the guarantee that these men are innocent until proven guilty. not until they make sexual advances on an actual child should these men be accused of having done so. Sorry, but i can sleep at night knowing we are prosecuting people who havent committed any real crime yet, because they have expressed every intent to commit that crime, and the childs life is worth saving rather than your desire to preserve the morality of law. This sentence is terrifying! "We are prosecuting people who haven't committed any real crime yet." I can't think of anything worse! The top priority of our judicial system should be to preserve the morality of the law. To do anything else is to let emotion cloud our judgement. | ||
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jcp
Peru192 Posts
On October 27 2006 12:36 lil.sis wrote: having thoughts of raping and molesting a child is not a crime. we cannot arrest people on the basis of their thoughts alone. these men have legally done nothing wrong. it is not wrong to have explicit sexual conversation with an adult, regardless of whether or the adult in question was pretending to be a minor. don't get me wrong, i'm not defending the actions of these men, but the simple fact is that as american citizens they are guarenteed certain unalienable rights by our judicial system. one of these rights is the guarantee that these men are innocent until proven guilty. not until they make sexual advances on an actual child should these men be accused of having done so. This sentence is terrifying! "We are prosecuting people who haven't committed any real crime yet." I can't think of anything worse! The top priority of our judicial system should be to preserve the morality of the law. To do anything else is to let emotion cloud our judgement. actually it is a crime and the proof its written on the covnersation and its "We are prosecuting a guy who is ready to commit a crime and the conversation clearly states that he will" -_- | ||
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lil.sis
China4650 Posts
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lil.sis
China4650 Posts
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jcp
Peru192 Posts
the 54 year old man does not only think of it , he actually chatted (wich its proof) and have obviously is trying to have sex with the boy if u read the article all this proof its enough to conclude that the guy was gonan commit a crime | ||
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NewbSaibot
3849 Posts
On October 27 2006 12:36 lil.sis wrote: Ok, so what would you do if your neighbor said he was going to kill you tonight. What CAN you do? He hasnt DONE anything yet right? You are only allowed to take action after he kills you. having thoughts of raping and molesting a child is not a crime. we cannot arrest people on the basis of these thoughts alone. these men have legally done nothing wrong. it is not wrong to have explicit sexual conversation with an adult, regardless of whether or not the adult in question was pretending to be a minor. don't get me wrong, i'm not defending the actions of these men, but the simple fact is that as american citizens they are guarenteed certain unalienable rights by our judicial system. one of these rights is the guarantee that these men are innocent until proven guilty. not until they make sexual advances on an actual child should these men be accused of having done so. This sentence is terrifying! "We are prosecuting people who haven't committed any real crime yet." I can't think of anything worse! The top priority of our judicial system should be to preserve the morality of the law. To do anything else is to let emotion cloud our judgement. | ||
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Spike
United States1392 Posts
The IM's can be used if the guys attempt to go to the "kid's" house. This how we get the show To Catch a Predator. | ||
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lil.sis
China4650 Posts
On October 27 2006 12:49 NewbSaibot wrote: Ok, so what would you do if your neighbor said he was going to kill you tonight. What CAN you do? He hasnt DONE anything yet right? You are only allowed to take action after he kills you. this is not an appropriate analogy because threatening someone's life is a crime, and I can call the police for it. soliciting an adult is not a crime | ||
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lil.sis
China4650 Posts
On October 27 2006 12:49 Spike wrote: As far as I know, no one is actually prosecuted (I should check up on this). Their information is just plastered all over the website. The IM's can be used if the guys attempt to go to the "kid's" house. This how we get the show To Catch a Predator. these men are prosecuted and convicted for child solicitation, a crime which they did not commit | ||
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