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On March 11 2014 20:42 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2014 19:45 oBlade wrote:On March 11 2014 17:49 Pandemona wrote: "The B777-200 aircraft that operated MH370 underwent maintenance on 23 February 2014, 10 days before this particular flight on 8 March 2014," a statement said.
"The next check is due on 19 June 2014. The maintenance was conducted at the KLIA hangar and there were no issues on the health of the aircraft." Wow so surely wasn't a mechanical failure? hmm Why "surely?" Because it had been serviced 10 days before the incident took place. I say "surely" as if they were doing their jobs properly there was nothing mechanically wrong with that plane or it would of been spotted before hand. On board computers can spot most of the problems before take off during checks im sure. Add that with a service 10 days before surely there was nothing wrong with it.
There's a very good chance it wasn't mechanical failure. Most systems, and even engines are redundant.
Structural failure on the other hand is much harder to detect without taking the plane out of service for an extended period of time. A crack could be only a few centimeters in length and not show up unless the wing flexed significantly up or down. Structural failure also could very easily cause catastrophic failure in flight.
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Regardless of how hard the plane hits the sea, you will still get a lot of debris anyway. Unlike what happened with Air France 447, where they found the pieces but weren't able to locate the actual plane and black box until 2 years later. With this case, it's even more mysterious only because they only found oil slicks, and nothing else for 4 days. Air France 447 was in a dead zone for communication and they still found the plane pieces 2 days later.
They had contact with MH370 with radar contact, and yet they have NO clue where the plane is AND they haven't found anything for 4 days now, just oil slicks. That is beyond irregular. The only assumption anyone can make is the plane is not where people believe it to be. With how long it has been, the pieces of the plane that is left could be any where. Boeing's 777 had a flawless record for 19 years, until last year when a pilot messed up and crashed into the sea wall in San Fran.
I'm just as confused on how so many people searching for the plane cannot find a single thing.
Edit: I just also want to say I don't believe this to be foul play. If it was, something should have been said from the pilots, I find it very hard to believe if it was foul play, the pilots didn't say a single thing. After 9/11, aren't all airlines now have some sort of response from pilots if something did happen like that again?
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This is so weird and confusing
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The oil slicks arent believed to be from the plane.
And Panda ruling out mechanical failure is absurd, there has been a number of accidents as a result of bad/lazy mechanics.
This is going to make for an interesting episode of Air Crash Investigation
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Some random fisherman would have found something by now if it had gone down in the original search area.
I'm starting to think they will find it in the jungle of Cambodia or Thailand.
Like the AirTran 592 flight that went down in Miami or the Shanksville plane that went down on 9-11.
They just drilled holes straight in the ground.
Below 592's debris field... imagine finding that in a Thai/Cambodia jungle.
![[image loading]](http://www.pilotfriend.com/disasters/crash/images/30.jpg)
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What I do not understand is how can the plane disappear with that much radar coverage in that area. It just doesn't seem possible from my understanding.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51479 Posts
On March 11 2014 21:52 MagickMan wrote:
The oil slicks arent believed to be from the plane.
And Panda ruling out mechanical failure is absurd, there has been a number of accidents as a result of bad/lazy mechanics.
This is going to make for an interesting episode of Air Crash Investigation
LOL
Yeah i said that xD
Air Crash Investigation and any Stephen Hawking documentary are the only things i watch on Nat Geo channel!
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On March 11 2014 21:59 Mithhaike wrote:
What I do not understand is how can the plane disappear with that much radar coverage in that area. It just doesn't seem possible from my understanding.
Well I think it has been said several times by now. Radar only goes so far if the Pilot doesn't say anything to the Tower. In this case, reports said pilots said nothing. Which only means that what ever happened with MH370, it happened very fast, so much so the pilots had no time to react or say anything to the Tower to say something is wrong.
And correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Radar only cover a certain altitude? If the plane is too low or too high it doesn't track.
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Seems like Other people had the same question:
North America generally has good radar coverage, entire USA, Southern part of Canada and Mexico/Carribean...
South America has rather poor coverage in its "Northern" parts... Brazil has full coverage drom the NE corner through Southern borders, but poor over the "Amazon basin"... Southern South America has good coverage, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay are excellent...
Africa is ... do we need to say what... inexistant except South Africa...
Europe, full coverage except some areas of Balkans... European Russia and Ukraine has full coverage...
Middle East, poor, except Saudi Arabia, and the "Gulf Area - UAE - Oman"...
Asia, poor everywhere, except Japan, South Korea and Taiwan...
Australia, good coverage from NE through South...
and
Outback Australia has no radar coverage at all. This covers a large portion of the country- outback South Australia/Northern Territory/Northern Queensland/half of Tasmania and most of WA.
finally
Most of Indonesia's area are covered by Radar Service, (at least western part of it), but controllers tend quite lazy in providing adequate service. They still want us to give position reports and estimates. They also not quite organized among themselves.
and ofc oceans doesn't have any radar coverage. Planes ofc have GPS and stuff, but that doesn't help in finding the plane after it went down.
Edit: The guardian has a piece on how the plane might get lost:
But over longer distances where radar coverage is limited – ie usually when planes are flying across oceans – they use another system, Automatic Dependent Surveillance. Here the aircraft transmits its own signal and gives its position via satellites. Maclean says: "Once you go outside primary radar coverage, which would normally be about 100 miles 160 km offshore maximum, you are relying on the plane to be transponding."
[...]
So when flight MH370 disappeared from plane tracking websites, it could mean the signals from the plane's transponder were stopped deliberately (by pilots or others), or there was a complete electrical failure, or the plane disintegrated. Where the Malaysian plane was flying, the signals are picked up by sites only once a minute and only at a plane's cruising height above 29,000 feet 9 km. So a dramatic loss of altitude could conceivably also see a plane drop off their radar but potentially continue to travel for some distance.
so if the pilots tried to change course but were below 9km height, they could be anywhere, because
At cruising altitude the plane would have been travelling at between 500-600mph 800-950 kph – allowing for some considerable distance to be travelled if the plane was still intact when it disappeared from the radar. Even with complete engine failure, some aviation experts have estimated the plane could glide for 20 minutes.Malaysian authorities said on Sunday that the plane could have turned just before vanishing.
I changed imperial to metric system. fuck imperial!
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On March 11 2014 22:13 Seraphic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2014 21:59 Mithhaike wrote:
What I do not understand is how can the plane disappear with that much radar coverage in that area. It just doesn't seem possible from my understanding. Well I think it has been said several times by now. Radar only goes so far if the Pilot doesn't say anything to the Tower. In this case, reports said pilots said nothing. Which only means that what ever happened with MH370, it happened very fast, so much so the pilots had no time to react or say anything to the Tower to say something is wrong. And correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Radar only cover a certain altitude? If the plane is too low or too high it doesn't track.
The thing is if something happened very fast, it'd surely mean the crashed plane wouldn't be far off the intended route and they would've found it by now. It takes time to get lost. Communication failure seems highly unlikely as they have 3 separate mediums and 5 separate electrical systems so it leaves foul play by either the crew (suicide/crazy) or a passenger.
The military claiming they saw it on the other side of the peninsula and it flew over an hour after 'disappearing' makes it even more suspect. Transponder turned off deliberately and/or flying at low altitude to avoid detection seem like distinct possibilities.
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On March 11 2014 23:01 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2014 22:13 Seraphic wrote:On March 11 2014 21:59 Mithhaike wrote:
What I do not understand is how can the plane disappear with that much radar coverage in that area. It just doesn't seem possible from my understanding. Well I think it has been said several times by now. Radar only goes so far if the Pilot doesn't say anything to the Tower. In this case, reports said pilots said nothing. Which only means that what ever happened with MH370, it happened very fast, so much so the pilots had no time to react or say anything to the Tower to say something is wrong. And correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Radar only cover a certain altitude? If the plane is too low or too high it doesn't track. The thing is if something happened very fast, it'd surely mean the crashed plane wouldn't be far off the intended route and they would've found it by now. It takes time to get lost. Communication failure seems highly unlikely as they have 3 separate mediums and 5 separate electrical systems so it leaves foul play by either the crew (suicide/crazy) or a passenger.
That is a bit bleak. However, if the other pilot contacting them 1:30 on emergency frequency heard "mumbling" and malaysian military sources caught the plane on primary radar for more than an hour after its official loss of contact, most explanations start to get very convoluted, very fast.
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It suddenly went to the other side of the country.... Getting more and more mysterious, especially if there is no terrorism involved.
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On March 11 2014 23:01 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2014 22:13 Seraphic wrote:On March 11 2014 21:59 Mithhaike wrote:
What I do not understand is how can the plane disappear with that much radar coverage in that area. It just doesn't seem possible from my understanding. Well I think it has been said several times by now. Radar only goes so far if the Pilot doesn't say anything to the Tower. In this case, reports said pilots said nothing. Which only means that what ever happened with MH370, it happened very fast, so much so the pilots had no time to react or say anything to the Tower to say something is wrong. And correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Radar only cover a certain altitude? If the plane is too low or too high it doesn't track. The thing is if something happened very fast, it'd surely mean the crashed plane wouldn't be far off the intended route and they would've found it by now. It takes time to get lost. Communication failure seems highly unlikely as they have 3 separate mediums and 5 separate electrical systems so it leaves foul play by either the crew (suicide/crazy) or a passenger.
The electrical system issue is possible of course. But you have to take into consideration that if something strange and highly irregular is happening, and the pilots have no time to really talk, then they won't. They have to try to troubleshoot the problem and ensure safety of the passengers. That's the #1 thing a captain is responsible for regardless of what is going on. The cockpit of the plane is always closed to outsiders, so whatever happens if it was a highjacking, the pilots should have said anything, something.
I still personally don't, but with how things are happening none of us really know exactly. Just hope the whole terrorist thing isn't the cause.
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On March 11 2014 23:01 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2014 22:13 Seraphic wrote:On March 11 2014 21:59 Mithhaike wrote:
What I do not understand is how can the plane disappear with that much radar coverage in that area. It just doesn't seem possible from my understanding. Well I think it has been said several times by now. Radar only goes so far if the Pilot doesn't say anything to the Tower. In this case, reports said pilots said nothing. Which only means that what ever happened with MH370, it happened very fast, so much so the pilots had no time to react or say anything to the Tower to say something is wrong. And correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Radar only cover a certain altitude? If the plane is too low or too high it doesn't track. The thing is if something happened very fast, it'd surely mean the crashed plane wouldn't be far off the intended route and they would've found it by now. It takes time to get lost. Communication failure seems highly unlikely as they have 3 separate mediums and 5 separate electrical systems so it leaves foul play by either the crew (suicide/crazy) or a passenger. The military claiming they saw it on the other side of the peninsula and it flew over an hour after 'disappearing' makes it even more suspect. Transponder turned off deliberately and/or flying at low altitude to avoid detection seem like distinct possibilities.
Well, since we don't know what went wrong it's hard to say what they could or couldn't do. There's been accidents where all hydraulic systems failed when an engine blew up despite having three separate circuits. I know an other accident where a bombs have severely limited the planes ability to control and communicate. Another where an explosive decompression rendered the pilots unconscious when the safety oxygen system failed and the crew that were conscious didn't set the radio to the right frequency when trying to communicate. I give you that it's very unlikely that they wouldn't be able to communicate if they wanted to but the bottom line is that many air plane accidents involves very unlikely scenarios, otherwise they wouldn't crash. If it's not a high-jacking and the crew isn't responsible then the explanations starts to wear thin from what we know at this point.
Likely we won't know what actually happened until the plane is found and the data recorders can be extracted. Otherwise I have a feeling we'll be seeing speculations for years to come.
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not to belittle the situation, but can someone fill me in why this is so mysterious. planes crash and the wreckage can take weeks, months and years to find. we have found examples of no distress signals given before crashes, and there are many examples of pilot error on autopilot taking the plane off course very far, especially if there's some kind of mechanical problem contributing to it too.
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On March 12 2014 01:48 Hydrolisko wrote:
not to belittle the situation, but can someone fill me in why this is so mysterious. planes crash and the wreckage can take weeks, months and years to find. we have found examples of no distress signals given before crashes, and there are many examples of pilot error on autopilot taking the plane off course very far, especially if there's some kind of mechanical problem contributing to it too.
this is only the second time i believe in the history of modern civilian flight that a large jet airliner has simply disappeared at cruising altitude with no communication from the pilots, no debris found (yet), etc. it is a very very rare and mysterious situation since there is almost always some kind of communication either from the pilots or the ship's systems sending data out that gives a clue as to what happened.
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On March 12 2014 01:50 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2014 01:48 Hydrolisko wrote:
not to belittle the situation, but can someone fill me in why this is so mysterious. planes crash and the wreckage can take weeks, months and years to find. we have found examples of no distress signals given before crashes, and there are many examples of pilot error on autopilot taking the plane off course very far, especially if there's some kind of mechanical problem contributing to it too. this is only the second time i believe in the history of modern civilian flight that a large jet airliner has simply disappeared at cruising altitude with no communication from the pilots, no debris found (yet), etc. it is a very very rare and mysterious situation since there is almost always some kind of communication either from the pilots or the ship's systems sending data out that gives a clue as to what happened.
I think it's just what we do know, makes no sense in terms of a disappearance. Such the weather was supposedly fine, so that couldn't have caused anything, and the plane had a service/maintenance check last month I think.
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EPT
