Disclaimer: Beyond basic programming, I am not well versed or in any means an expert in the technical aspects of networking and security. After reading about various sources, this is my interpretation of the issue… And forgive me for some of the horrendous MS paint images, too lazy to open up Illustrator and Indesign =(
Unless you have been living under a rock, woefully illiterate in technology or a developer, you probably would not be utilizing Internet Explorer for your internet needs as there are many fancier alternatives. But as you have seen via streams, for the folks in South Korea that is not the case… So why does this monoculture exist in a technology powerhouse with such extensive broadband infrastructure?
Here is my pie chart, everyone loves pie!
You jelly?
This all goes back to 1999 when the Electronic Financial Transaction Act was introduced requiring users to only use Internet Explorer for shopping, banking and other online transactions. This was due part to security concerns as the South Korean government considered 40-bit encryption too weak as the key can be cracked in a relatively short time phase with a computed brute force or specific algorithms.
Here you see my futile attempt to explain basic encryption
Shamelessly stolen from Google Images
However, during this period 128-bit SSL encryption(These days, 256-bit or more are available) was also near finalization in the United States but South Korea could not wait for its standardization and funded its own development of an encryption algorithm called SEED. This was tasked to KISA(Korea Information and Security Agency), an organization under the KCC or the U.S equivalent FCC(Federal Communications Commission).
SEED works as an Active X(Hmmm… Sounds familiar anyone?) controlled plugin in which is then tied to a digital certificate issued by the government which has the user’s personal information it in. As many of us has known over the years hearing Active X means malicious content and viruses because it was originally developed to run by default on IE so unknown to the user, they’re allowing sites to automatically install anything onto their PC, heaven for drive-by download attacks.
So obviously during the introduction of that law, the only browser on the market that can work properly with Active X was Internet Explorer, both products of Microsoft. However, during the Vista days Microsoft resolved that issue by requiring a user action for the Active X control to run. But since then IE still reigns supreme as the government struggles to change the legislation to adapt and allow transactions via other browsers because of outcries by major domestic financial institutions.
I would like to add that third-party Active-X plugins are available for other browsers but I highly doubt they are fully functional with official transactions in South Korea yet. And for pure Apple and Linux users in Korea, good luck.
edit: Additional information to clear things up... Korean users can browse the web with any browser of their liking but any e-transactions must be done on Internet Explorer + Active X due to SEED block cipher.
The main reason why South Korea still clings to this old method is because of financial reasons. Many companies and the government itself has to invest in a lot of money to update their infrastructure which then trickles down to the typical consumer. As SEED is seldom used elsewhere, one cannot fathom the shear scale of such a task. When Microsoft introduced the "User Action" update for Active-X it initially created more headaches as virtually every website that uses the plugin for encrypted transactions required an upgrade to Windows Vista or higher OS.
And next by April of next year Microsoft will pull the plug on Windows XP so the one-third of South Korea that still uses Internet Explorer 8 better get to the times. You think Microsoft had a substantial market in the States but in Korea it turned into a unintended de-facto monopoly.
I was reading about this somewhat recently, in the last three months, anyway. Thanks for the post and I hope it starts a discussion, because I proably don't have a lot to add to it but I'd like to read more about it. I hope things change and we see this thread go on for many more pages as they do (change for the better)!
thanks for the good read. I knew SK used IE or at least recall reading about it but never knew the reason until this thread. Makes sense when you think about it and I'm sure we'll eventually see migration to other browsers once legislation is reworked and such
I dont say this to be mean, but the TL;DR (or Explanation for those who are technologically quasi-illiterate) would be:
IE was used because it handled a form of encryption that was needed at the time and they haven't finished establishing a new infrastructure? Is that right?
This is so not new Every sites of my company is IE-exclusive and while this sucks, I got to install like a dozen of security active-x/plugins before using. Every goddamn function (like mail, internet banking etc.) needs at least one plugin lol. So yeah, it still feels kinda...secured
Doing something as simple as buying a 20 dollar item from a big-brand online store requires the user to download at least 3 seperate plugins. (and different payment methods will have different plugins)
As a result, public computers in private places tend to be bogged down with 100+ useless IE plugins and extra buttons, shiny things and useless whatevers.
IE is still has a massive market, outside of korea as well, the pie chart is not all that suprising to me. Hell, when I started using other browsers, IE probably had a 99% marketshare in the west as well. Then Firefox came out, and afterwards, Chome. Now I hear IE has a far smaller market share, but considering companies, it's still massive. Most huge companies still only develop internally for IE. Their external sites might be optimized to work on chrome, firefox and safari, but their internal sites are probably not. Companies rely on active-X, on old browser standards, and old systems.
At my work, we are currently estimating how much is will cost for us to rewrite one of our bigger intranet sites to work on IE10 WITHOUT compatibility mode which isn't as extreme as making it work well on chrome and firefox, but it's a start (its currently made for IE9 WITH compatibility mode). We are talking at least 2 months of work at this point, but that's a high level estimate, it could well be higher. That's a pretty ridiculous cost, which is why IE is still so huge. People might switch browser weekly in private, but switching it for a big company with thousands of employees is risky and costly.
Tnx for the info. Didnt really think IE is still that used in the world, after reading many polls on different sites saying that chrome and firefox are some of the most used browsers nowadays with 30% or more market share each. I always thought IE is only good for downloading other browsers and never touched again after.
Best customization options. Best version of Adblock Plus. Greasemonkey is great (though Chrome also has TamperMonkey). I also use Flashgot+Free Download Manager and Flash Download Helper.
Anyone else here a part of the Firefox Master Race?
On January 22 2014 16:31 vidium wrote: Tnx for the info. Didnt really think IE is still that used in the world, after reading many polls on different sites saying that chrome and firefox are some of the most used browsers nowadays with 30% or more market share each. I always thought IE is only good for downloading other browsers and never touched again after.
Actually IE is still used quite heavily, but depending which statistic you ask, you get quite different results. If you go for http://www.netmarketshare.com/ that's around 70% while http://gs.statcounter.com/ tracks it at 23% globally. These statistics basically variy pretty much depending on what pages you track the usage. On TL there will be different ones that lets say amazon. At work I have clients whose websites still have ~ 20% IE8 & IE7 visitors alone while others have maybe 10% IE in general. And in companies where only certain software is allowed on computers there is a good chance that an IE is used.
Active X. I'll never forget all the keyboard loggers, tokenizers, video coders and whatnot I got to pollute my pc with. It had a certain charm to it, I have to admit that.
On January 22 2014 19:56 hfsrj wrote: Super interesting. But if you go to Korea with your PC, you cannot use internet unless you install this silly plugins ? Have they heard of https yet ?
You can use internet fine, but you can probably not use most of the korean sites where security is important, like e-markets etc.
On January 22 2014 16:33 dabom88 wrote: I'm part of the Firefox Master Race.
Best customization options. Best version of Adblock Plus. Greasemonkey is great (though Chrome also has TamperMonkey). I also use Flashgot+Free Download Manager and Flash Download Helper.
Anyone else here a part of the Firefox Master Race?
I use DownloadHelper, although the one I use isn't called Flash DownloadHelper though, but it's for Youtube, Twitch, random mp3 sites with previews etc. i.e. basically any site with .mp3, .mp4, .flv and a stack of others that aren't properly hidden. Actually, recently, some files stopped being able to be downloaded from Youtube with it and less of the resolution options seem to be able to be downloaded. It seems to be limited to one [HQ5] .flv file and one [Mobile] .3gp file. Any idea about that? It's just Google being prats, right? This site is a good back-up though, it usually works when DownloadHelper does not.
I also use IE Tab (well, next to never as I use IE if it seems necessary...which is also next to never) and started using BetterTTV recently, a nice add-on to make Twitch.tv better. With BetterTTV, frozen chat can be automatically detected, although sadly it takes quite a while to do so sometimes, so it's not very functional in my opinion. I wish there were a way to specify how often chat should check to see if it is frozen, or a way to automatically refresh it without refreshing the page...or that Twitch chat would be designed like Destiny's chat made by [insert that continually forgotten guy's username].
That got a little off-topic though. :p Still, perhaps the South Korean government is watching the thread and will see our reasons to switch to Firefox and they'll help create a Firefox not-quite-monopoly (Google hardly needs extra market share and they're big Youtube-ruining meany sneakies anyway).
Many users here on TL, including me, have wondered over the years why such a large portion of Korean streamers still use IE. Thanks a bunch for presenting this article and clearing things up a bit.
I went to SK on exchange this fall, and even the university website forced you to use IE for some things. Applying to courses, and even looking at available ones were a bit troublesome without IE, but checking your grades at the end of the semester was actually impossible without it, which pissed off the mac users.
I use Firefox to browse. When I started working, my company didn't have Firefox and we weren't allowed to install it. We can use Firefox now for browsing but the company business software still runs on IE.
I never actually knew the reason until I read this, although I've dealt with numerous frustrations related to Korean websites and their reliance on IE.
On January 22 2014 16:33 dabom88 wrote: I'm part of the Firefox Master Race.
Best customization options. Best version of Adblock Plus. Greasemonkey is great (though Chrome also has TamperMonkey). I also use Flashgot+Free Download Manager and Flash Download Helper.
Anyone else here a part of the Firefox Master Race?
All browsers are vomit. The only good reason to use Firefox is that you're already using it. I would rather use something that didn't have such flagrant memory management issues or could handle sessions properly. Maybe a browser that doesn't put the active window into the background any time it has a Flash applet on it. But unfortunately the alternatives all have their own frustrating shortcomings. The devil you know.
So it basically started with IE4 5? which makes sense. IE6 main security issues was it was on XP and was early in the Internet life span pbcak was common. IE11 on windows 7 8 is fairly security in comparison to other browsers, only browser that does better in terms of security features would be chrome when IE is on a modern OS.
On January 22 2014 16:33 dabom88 wrote: I'm part of the Firefox Master Race.
Best customization options. Best version of Adblock Plus. Greasemonkey is great (though Chrome also has TamperMonkey). I also use Flashgot+Free Download Manager and Flash Download Helper.
Anyone else here a part of the Firefox Master Race?
I was. Then Chrome happened with a google phone. :D
Anyway, very informative. Helps and clears up a lot.
On January 22 2014 16:33 dabom88 wrote: I'm part of the Firefox Master Race.
Best customization options. Best version of Adblock Plus. Greasemonkey is great (though Chrome also has TamperMonkey). I also use Flashgot+Free Download Manager and Flash Download Helper.
Anyone else here a part of the Firefox Master Race?
I was. Then Chrome happened with a google phone. :D
Anyway, very informative. Helps and clears up a lot.
Don't want to initiate a browser war but security all comes down to the user, limit your plugins and add-ons. Chrome has superior security features but I'm too used to the FireFox UI and I open a lot of tabs for work. Personally the only plugin that I run all the time on Firefox is NoScript, other add-ons should be disabled or uninstalled especially Java. Though Firefox does seem to crash sometimes due to memory issues and problems with pesky Flash.
On January 22 2014 16:33 dabom88 wrote: I'm part of the Firefox Master Race.
Best customization options. Best version of Adblock Plus. Greasemonkey is great (though Chrome also has TamperMonkey). I also use Flashgot+Free Download Manager and Flash Download Helper.
Anyone else here a part of the Firefox Master Race?
I use DownloadHelper, although the one I use isn't called Flash DownloadHelper though, but it's for Youtube, Twitch, random mp3 sites with previews etc. i.e. basically any site with .mp3, .mp4, .flv and a stack of others that aren't properly hidden. Actually, recently, some files stopped being able to be downloaded from Youtube with it and less of the resolution options seem to be able to be downloaded. It seems to be limited to one [HQ5] .flv file and one [Mobile] .3gp file. Any idea about that? It's just Google being prats, right? This site is a good back-up though, it usually works when DownloadHelper does not.
I also use IE Tab (well, next to never as I use IE if it seems necessary...which is also next to never) and started using BetterTTV recently, a nice add-on to make Twitch.tv better. With BetterTTV, frozen chat can be automatically detected, although sadly it takes quite a while to do so sometimes, so it's not very functional in my opinion. I wish there were a way to specify how often chat should check to see if it is frozen, or a way to automatically refresh it without refreshing the page...or that Twitch chat would be designed like Destiny's chat made by [insert that continually forgotten guy's username].
That got a little off-topic though. :p Still, perhaps the South Korean government is watching the thread and will see our reasons to switch to Firefox and they'll help create a Firefox not-quite-monopoly (Google hardly needs extra market share and they're big Youtube-ruining meany sneakies anyway).
Yeah, I'm talking about DownloadHelper. Youtube still works fine for me. For example, take this Proleague game:
I see 720p, Medium, HQ5, HQ36, and Mobile as my options. Maybe try updating DownloadHelper?
Also, I would recommend you get Flashgot and Free Download Manager if you're using DownloadHelper. It allows you to download the same file with multiple connections (for links that are resume-supported, like Youtube and Twitch), so it's faster. It'll also let you use that "Flashgot download" option for files when you highlight the quality you want in DownloadHelper.
On January 22 2014 16:33 dabom88 wrote: I'm part of the Firefox Master Race.
Best customization options. Best version of Adblock Plus. Greasemonkey is great (though Chrome also has TamperMonkey). I also use Flashgot+Free Download Manager and Flash Download Helper.
Anyone else here a part of the Firefox Master Race?
I was. Then Chrome happened with a google phone. :D
Anyway, very informative. Helps and clears up a lot.
You can use Google Phone on any browser, can't you? I remember using it on Firefox.
^Thanks, dabom88! I've heard of the download managers before and never really got into them,but I'll give them a go now. In that video, 720p, HQ5 and Mobile are the only options for me, aside from the many .flv links that appear that I never click because have that different sort of icon. Those [SPL2014] files went up by one in number every 20 seconds or so to an eventual total of 8 before dropping back to 7 at 1°12° or so, then to 4 and finally 3 when I took the screenshot. It's strange, but they're only 2MB. In the past, those links actually grabbed real (full) files, whereas they now seem to be snapshots of 16 or so seconds. My version of DownloadHelper is up to date.
Is it possible that my the cached versions of the Medium and HP36 files are not on my local servers and they're just not ending up here somehow? :S
EDIT: Why does it seem like the file viewed in 480p here on Youtube is of higher quality than any of the files I can download with Firefox DownloadHelper or Free Download Manager? It seems sharper and clearer than when I download the largest files? Using DownloadHelper, I can only download the HQ5 that is only 34.4MB file or a lower quality .3gp. Using the videograbber.net, I can get a 74.2MB 360p webm.
VideoGrabber.net says: Since YouTube has recently restricted the download of videos in 1080p and 4K resolution, such stuffs cannot be downloaded theoretically. But we have managed to overcome the limit and made it possible. Just take Video Download Capture to get full HD videos on YouTube as you want.
Which videos can you get from that Brood War game, dabom88?
On January 23 2014 12:38 Fuchsteufelswild wrote: ^Thanks, dabom88! I've heard of the download managers before and never really got into them,but I'll give them a go now. In that video, 720p, HQ5 and Mobile are the only options for me, aside from the many .flv links that appear that I never click because have that different sort of icon. Those [SPL2014] files went up by one in number every 20 seconds or so to an eventual total of 8 before dropping back to 7 at 1°12° or so, then to 4 and finally 3 when I took the screenshot. It's strange, but they're only 2MB. In the past, those links actually grabbed real (full) files, whereas they now seem to be snapshots of 16 or so seconds. My version of DownloadHelper is up to date.
Is it possible that my the cached versions of the Medium and HP36 files are not on my local servers and they're just not ending up here somehow? :S
EDIT: Why does it seem like the file viewed in 480p here on Youtube is of higher quality than any of the files I can download with Firefox DownloadHelper or Free Download Manager? It seems sharper and clearer than when I download the largest files? Using DownloadHelper, I can only download the HQ5 that is only 34.4MB file or a lower quality .3gp. Using the videograbber.net, I can get a 74.2MB 360p webm.
VideoGrabber.net says: Since YouTube has recently restricted the download of videos in 1080p and 4K resolution, such stuffs cannot be downloaded theoretically. But we have managed to overcome the limit and made it possible. Just take Video Download Capture to get full HD videos on YouTube as you want.
Which videos can you get from that Brood War game, dabom88?
Medium, HQ5, HQ36, and Mobile. Which line up with the 4 Quality options nicely (480, 360, 240, 144).
Medium is 53.1 MB, HQ5 is 34.4, HQ36 is 22.4 MB, Mobile is 8.1 MB.
Medium is probably the 480p one, but you don't seem to be seeing it.
Maybe it's an Australia thing? I'm from the US, maybe it's a territory issue. Your Firefox and Shockwave Flash are up to date as well, right?
I know when my girlfriend is using my Macbook to internet shop when I see in my downloads folders all the .exe files of the security plugins. There's always 5-6 of them before she remembers she's on a Mac and gives up
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TjfTuQs.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VX1show.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2nZUlcK.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MhtCKFI.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gqv3OiT.jpg)
Every sites of my company is IE-exclusive and while this sucks, I got to install like a dozen of security active-x/plugins before using. Every goddamn function (like mail, internet banking etc.) needs at least one plugin lol.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1FMOqYj.png)
