EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 188
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 03 2016 04:09 Deleuze wrote: I think discussions of this tangent of 'if you're not a British or European national, then you don't have a right to express a view on the topic of the referendum' should be abandoned. I don't think anyone realistically can defend that position (and I doubt that the poster who started really meant it to the this degree anyway), and discussion is just derailing the thread. What I meant previously was: why are some non-Europeans so committed to/prefer Brexit? It's not about the right to vote or express an opinion, I just don't understand the MOTIVATION behind it. I don't understand what they gain. That, and also because I'm upset at the outcome of this EU referendum. | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On July 03 2016 04:24 Shield wrote: What I meant previously was: why are some non-Europeans so committed to/prefer Brexit? It's not about the right to vote or express an opinion, I just don't understand the MOTIVATION behind it. I don't understand what they gain. That, and also because I'm upset at the outcome of this EU referendum. That makes more sense, it was more the tangent about the 'right to comment as an outsider' that the threat was going down which I disagreed with. As Farv said earlier, there are certain posters who are using this as an emblem of their own divisive political stance, hence their passion. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On July 03 2016 04:24 Shield wrote: What I meant previously was: why are some non-Europeans so committed to/prefer Brexit? It's not about the right to vote or express an opinion, I just don't understand the MOTIVATION behind it. I don't understand what they gain. That, and also because I'm upset at the outcome of this EU referendum. People don't always have to gain something to discuss it. And you should stop trying to project your own worldview onto others. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 03 2016 04:37 Ghostcom wrote: People don't always have to gain something to discuss it. And you should stop trying to project your own worldview onto others. You don't wake up and decide you're for Brexit/Remain, do you? Sometimes makes you prefer either side. No, I shouldn't stop. It's called democracy, so I can express an opinion. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 03 2016 04:43 Shield wrote: You don't wake up and decide you're for Brexit/Remain, do you? Sometimes makes you prefer either side. No, I shouldn't stop. It's called democracy, so I can express an opinion. Yes, but your opinion seems to be that other people shouldn't hold or voice theirs in this thread unless they meet the standards set by you. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On July 03 2016 04:24 Shield wrote: What I meant previously was: why are some non-Europeans so committed to/prefer Brexit? It's not about the right to vote or express an opinion, I just don't understand the MOTIVATION behind it. I don't understand what they gain. That, and also because I'm upset at the outcome of this EU referendum. I like to watch the carnage that ensues. It amuses me. So GO BREXIT! | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 03 2016 05:04 Plansix wrote: Yes, but your opinion seems to be that other people shouldn't hold or voice theirs in this thread unless they meet the standards set by you. Scroll up and read what I said. Thanks. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
On July 03 2016 04:43 Shield wrote: You don't wake up and decide you're for Brexit/Remain, do you? Sometimes makes you prefer either side. No, I shouldn't stop. It's called democracy, so I can express an opinion. I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not telling you to stop expressing your opinion - by all means continue to do so. I'm telling you to stop projecting your own motivations and beliefs onto others when trying to understand them. Your very hostile approach isn't very conducive to getting someone to answer your questions. I personally think the UK should've remained, but they didn't and I can understand some of the arguments for leaving as well as to some degree sympathize with some of them. | ||
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Reaps
United Kingdom1280 Posts
On July 03 2016 04:24 Shield wrote: What I meant previously was: why are some non-Europeans so committed to/prefer Brexit? It's not about the right to vote or express an opinion, I just don't understand the MOTIVATION behind it. I don't understand what they gain. That, and also because I'm upset at the outcome of this EU referendum. Some are just passionate about discussing politics, Others might just dislike the reasons for Brexit and want to flood the thread with dooms saying and general negativity. That said i don't mind non europeans posting here, we do it enough in the US thread, it is a public forum after all. What i dislike is people who are obviously not informed about Britain and insist on derailing the thread or cant accept other peoples opinions. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 03 2016 07:26 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Well, if you truly want to know the motivation of a certain Australian poster, from our interactions, he supports brexit because he visited London last year and was upset that there wasn't as many white British faces as he would had preferred to see. This does not surprise me at all. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On July 03 2016 07:26 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Well, if you truly want to know the motivation of a certain Australian poster, from our interactions, he supports brexit because he visited London last year and was upset that there wasn't as many white British faces as he would had preferred to see. Fine, but native Europeans are white. Why is the EU a problem? If anything, he/she is supposed to be against immigration outside Europe. Or, is the emphasis on white British in which case Europe can't help him? Edit: There are a few post-referendum videos on BBC. If you care to watch, here they are. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36686361 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/features/magazine-36656392/36656392 | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On July 03 2016 08:06 Shield wrote: Fine, but native Europeans are white. Why is the EU a problem? If anything, he/she is supposed to be against immigration outside Europe. Or, is the emphasis on white British in which case Europe can't help him? Is probably the same reasons how those racist bigots go rampage on shouting 'get out we voted for that' at any non-british white europeans in some places of this country post-Brexit. I will never understand that. Because you often can't tell from the look of the person (especially when the girl put that much make up like the average english girl) and many foreigners do have english accents if they grew up here. I am starting to think that the obsession of accent over here is actually a form of xenophobic trait, people immediately feel insecure/nervous/unsettle if they cant tell where are you from/what is your 'social class' rofl. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4836 Posts
On July 03 2016 03:47 Shield wrote: You seem a bit angry. Did you sleep the wrong way? Go take a glass of water and come back.  I've had several glasses over beer and whiskey-canaday dry, does that count aswell? Still, my opinion hasn't been changed, and I'm still as angry as I was before. The political landscape is toxic. On a global level, not just related to the Brexit, even if it was a nice example. My main point responding to you is of the same order as people of a certain ethnic group claiming people of another ethnic group can't comment on the difficulties and other aspects of the first certain ethnic group. It's a way of delegitimizing an entire group of people without even argumenting why you think it's that way. I could go on a tangent here and say that mathmatically, certain groups of people don't belong in a certain subset of people, but they still belong in the set of people, so why shouldn't they be able to understand/have a perspective on certain issues? You've later talked about the motivation. What motivation needs to be there concretely? Isn't the willingness to talk about it in a theoretical/discussion/debate sense enough? Why does it have to be an issue that affects you personally per se? Why does that make talking about it more valid than talking about it when it doesn't affect you directly? I firmly believe that a higher % of people that are registered on this forum can hold a vastly more constructive discussion with certain integrity that those people that voted in the referendum last week by the way. Talking about politics/socio-economic issues is only about people that have the willingness to debate politics and perhaps do something about the certain situation discussed and it doesn't matter where they're from. It is,however, not about the people that are directly affected by said politics, because it has been shown, time and time again, that they don't really give a flying fuck to do any decent research/want to be informed about said issues (#whatistheEU). | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Man, sure is a lot of assuming based on a web analytics result given without context. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4338 Posts
On July 03 2016 07:26 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Well, if you truly want to know the motivation of a certain Australian poster, from our interactions, he supports brexit because he visited London last year and was upset that there wasn't as many white British faces as he would had preferred to see. There are no black people in Poland. UK government has made it harder for Non-EU immigration because of soaring white EU immigration so this argument of yours has no basis in reality.Those campaigning to keep the status quo are the racists here because the current system preferences overwhelmingly white EU citizens over non EU migration. There are several good arguments to be made but it is strange to me that the youth wants to keep the status quo when London house prices have doubled since 2009.Is it mostly spoiled rich kids that live with their parents protesting in London? Hundreds of thousands of Greeks and Italians are coming to the country because their own economies are fucked, with the EU austerity measures partly to blame.Just makes it harder for those kids to get decent jobs, drives down wages all at a time when London house prices rose 5% last year.Well above inflation.Are these kids really so brainwashed they cannot see this? | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On July 03 2016 15:37 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: There are several good arguments to be made but it is strange to me that the youth wants to keep the status quo when London house prices have doubled since 2009.Is it mostly spoiled rich kids that live with their parents protesting in London? Yeah thats what it is... rich white kids are upset. The poor white kids who cant afford to live in London just had a world of opportunity opened up to them. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On July 03 2016 15:37 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: There are several good arguments to be made but it is strange to me that the youth wants to keep the status quo when London house prices have doubled since 2009.Is it mostly spoiled rich kids that live with their parents protesting in London? The kinds of issues that lead people to support Brexit - sovereignty, immigration (or xenophobia), frustration with many years of the (perceived or real) incompetence of the EU, nationalism, healthcare, etc. - are not the kinds of issues that most youth think about. While this is painting with a broad brush, most think about traveling and learning abroad, blaming older and more experienced people for being out of touch, idealism about a united Europe and about the intentions of immigrants, desire to be part of something bigger, etc. Without judging which side is right (I would have personally voted Leave if I lived in the UK, but I don't blame others for doing otherwise), those are the reasons for the age divide among voters. Remain vs. Leave means different things to different people, but those represent a lot of the differing concerns between young and old. | ||
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