EPTOn June 28 2013 13:31 a176 wrote:
Quebec has tried to separate from Canada 2 (3?) times already.
Quebec has tried to separate from Canada 2 (3?) times already.
2
Montreal IGA forbids employees to speak English - Page 7
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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Dawski
Canada435 Posts
On June 28 2013 13:27 Djzapz wrote: His statements are not valid. I know a fair bit about the history of Quebec and Canada because I need to for my job (which I won't get into). The guy tries to suggest that we weren't treated poorly by the anglophone majority which is completely bullshit. For roughly the last 50-60 years, the situation has been fair, but it's completely insane to suggest that everything should be fine and dandy now. The worst is behind us, but the tensions are still going on. Gendron is a small times simpleton, he really is. And I'm not saying that because his views are opposed to mine. I rarely say this and mean it, but this man is literally unintelligent. As for the economic thing, you have to understand that the government of Quebec is fighting for us. It's never advantageous to say thanks in politics... ask for more to make it difficult for them to take it back. It only makes sense. The whole point is that the tensions should not still be going on after 60 years of being treated "fair". I put it in quotations because this system has taken the same road of many others, overcompensation. Instead of seeing an oppression and wanting to make it fair, they see it and want things to tip into their favor now to make up for it. The reason why the tensions continue is because of this environment and media that these people grow up in which just continue the cycle. On the economics thing you completely lost me. When do provincial leaders ever have to fight for their people with the federal? You can't work together with the federal and other provinces in order to secure financial stability to all provinces? There have been cases where Quebec businesses bragged they only do business within Quebec borders in order to strengthen Quebec. Quebec fights Canada to give it everything because it can, and then bites the hand that feeds. | ||
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ander
Canada403 Posts
On June 28 2013 13:27 Djzapz wrote: His statements are not valid. I know a fair bit about the history of Quebec and Canada because I need to for my job (which I won't get into). The guy tries to suggest that we weren't treated poorly by the anglophone majority which is completely bullshit. For roughly the last 50-60 years, the situation has been fair, but it's completely insane to suggest that everything should be fine and dandy now. The worst is behind us, but the tensions are still going on. Gendron is a small times simpleton, he really is. And I'm not saying that because his views are opposed to mine. I rarely say this and mean it, but this man is literally unintelligent. As for the economic thing, you have to understand that the government of Quebec is fighting for us. It's never advantageous to say thanks in politics... ask for more to make it difficult for them to take it back. It only makes sense. No, speaking English is not illegal. At worst, you can get fined if you refuse to have a French sign for a business instead of any other language, or such things. But you'd never get arrested unless you were loudly disturbing the peace in English  I'm a 23 year old non-Quebecer. Why is it that some of my tax dollars fuel a dispute that exists from hundreds of years ago that I've had no part of? | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 28 2013 13:38 Dawski wrote: The whole point is that the tensions should not still be going on after 60 years of being treated "fair". I put it in quotations because this system has taken the same road of many others, overcompensation. Instead of seeing an oppression and wanting to make it fair, they see it and want things to tip into their favor now to make up for it. The reason why the tensions continue is because of this environment and media that these people grow up in which just continue the cycle. I don't think anybody wants to be compensated, it's straight anger and bad blood, plus the current tensions which are just a domino effect. On the economics thing you completely lost me. When do provincial leaders ever have to fight for their people with the federal? You can't work together with the federal and other provinces in order to secure financial stability to all provinces? There have been cases where Quebec businesses bragged they only do business within Quebec borders in order to strengthen Quebec. Quebec fights Canada to give it everything because it can, and then bites the hand that feeds. There's a constant tug-o-war between provinces and the fed for certain things, especially in Canada since the federal taxes more than it needs to and then redistributes the money into the provinces. I think that it's people's negative view of Quebec which makes this view of yours so prevalent though... All the provinces are fighting for more transfers from the fed, but it's more annoying to hear about when it's those douchebags from the east. On June 28 2013 13:43 ander wrote: I'm a 23 year old non-Quebecer. Why is it that some of my tax dollars fuel a dispute that exists from hundreds of years ago that I've had no part of? I'm a 23 year old Quebecer, why do mine? Well because we don't live in a vacuum and the actions or our ancestors make differences that have made it to the present. I'm not in favor of this dispute by the way. | ||
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zbedlam
Australia549 Posts
Guess they are mad their language becoming obsolete, can't say I blame them. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 28 2013 13:49 zbedlam wrote: Now I know why most US people I talk to have a strong dislike for french canadians. Guess they are mad their language becoming obsolete, can't say I blame them. I think it's strange because when you dislike a classification of people, it generally makes you a douchebag... but for some reason the hatred of french Canadians is acceptable. | ||
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TerranosaurusWrecks
Canada187 Posts
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Dawski
Canada435 Posts
You're just encouraging and continuing the exact same "insecure" attitude as I was just talking about. The man you just quoted didn't even say anything discriminatory about French Canadians... He just said he understands the feelings on both sides...holy crap man this insecurity is NOT healthy (3rd edit): Besides, you just said you completely understood the feelings of dislike on both sides because of something to do with your job...sounds to me like you don't completely... | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 28 2013 13:56 Dawski wrote: So you think that Quebec should be able to treat the feds the way they do because "in your completely non-fact opinion" the other provinces do the same? You realize that's completely untrue right? Equalization comes from the federal revenue. Provincial governments can't fight for more equalization. The problem people have with Quebec and equalization is the way the Quebec government spends it. The problem in my opinion is the payments don't come with any strings attached which means big governments get used to receiving them. It's like using a cheque which should be used to get your family out of debt and spend it on video games. You're just encouraging and continuing the exact same "insecure" attitude as I was just talking about. Provincial governments talk to the federal government and can try to get more equalization payments, that's how politics work. But the transfer of funds are by no means limited to equalization payments. As for how Quebec "treats" the feds, who the hell cares, it's a government.... As for people being angry about how Quebec uses its checks. That's pretty much the pettiest bullshit ever. The right-leaning rest of the country doesn't like the left-leaning big bad Quebec... go figures. As for saying the "check" is spent on videogames, that's quite ridiculous. Large parts go toward education and health, both of which are durable development. But despite your denial of it, there are plenty of disputes between provincial and federal governments, and more rural provinces tend to want more equalization payments and other such resources. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10344 Posts
On June 28 2013 12:38 Manifesto7 wrote: Obviously. Who the fuck shops at IGA besides your grandma anyway. I like IGA  | ||
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Dawski
Canada435 Posts
On June 28 2013 14:01 Djzapz wrote: Provincial governments talk to the federal government and can try to get more equalization payments, that's how politics work. But the transfer of funds are by no means limited to equalization payments. As for how Quebec "treats" the feds, who the hell cares, it's a government.... As for people being angry about how Quebec uses its checks. That's pretty much the pettiest bullshit ever. The right-leaning rest of the country doesn't like the left-leaning big bad Quebec... go figures. But despite your denial of it, there are plenty of disputes between provincial and federal governments, and more rural provinces tend to want more equalization payments and other such resources. I love how you still haven't figured out why the rest of Canada doesn't like the fiscal situation of Quebec. You realize the way you treat the feds directly impacts where the money we pay towards the government goes. If our money is going somewhere and we see it being spent on bureaucracies to uphold language laws, people are going to have a problem with that, and they should. Especially when this place is constantly asking for more and yet doesn't fix it's money draining big government in the first place. Also Canada is right leaning? You may have a case to make in Alberta some parts of BC excluding Victoria/Vancouver (pretty much the whole population of BC). But other than that Canada is a fairly left of center country. If you think that's the reason people dislike Quebec you're delusional. I really hope that "undisclosed job" of yours doesn't have anything to do with this subject | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 28 2013 14:11 Dawski wrote: I love how you still haven't figured out why the rest of Canada doesn't like the fiscal situation of Quebec. You realize the way you treat the feds directly impacts where the money we pay towards the government goes. If our money is going somewhere and we see it being spent on bureaucracies to uphold language laws, people are going to have a problem with that, and they should. Especially when this place is constantly asking for more and yet doesn't fix it's money draining big government in the first place. Also Canada is right leaning? You may have a case to make in Alberta some parts of BC excluding Victoria/Vancouver (pretty much the whole population of BC). But other than that Canada is a fairly left of center country. If you think that's the reason people dislike Quebec you're delusional. I really hope that "undisclosed job" of yours doesn't have anything to do with this subject You'll be disappointed to hear that I'm a poli sci masters student at McGill (a name which you hopefully recognize) and I even am a course lecturer at a different QC university for 2 groups of 30 students. [Edit: not during the summer semester, only during the two main ones] You seem to imply that I don't understand things which I completely understand but I disagree with. I do understand why Canada doesn't like the fiscal situation of Quebec, but I also think it's arrogant and shows a complete misunderstanding of how shit works. Arguing that the money goes toward language issues is quite dumb in the first place anyway - Quebec's taxes are quite high, and it amply covers those inefficiencies (at the cost of other useful things that we could do). Obviously, I don't disagree that our public administration could get axed pretty hard. As for Canada being "right leaning", I was clearly talking about it relatively to Quebec. Yes, Canada is left leaning. I'm a bit disappointed that you couldn't figure out what I was saying. On June 28 2013 14:14 Chrispy wrote: Quebec... secede already please. Are you pissed off in general or did that grocery store manager really make you hate the province that badly? | ||
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Dawski
Canada435 Posts
On June 28 2013 14:15 Djzapz wrote: You'll be disappointed to hear that I'm a poli sci masters student at McGill (a name which you hopefully recognize) and I even am a class lecturer at a different QC university for 2 groups of 30 students. [Edit: not during the summer semester, only during the two main ones] You seem to imply that I don't understand things which I completely understand but I disagree with. I do understand why Canada doesn't like the fiscal situation of Quebec, but I also think it's arrogant and shows a complete misunderstanding of how shit works. Arguing that the money goes toward language issues is quite dumb in the first place anyway - Quebec's taxes are quite high, and it amply covers those inefficiencies (at the cost of other useful things that we could do). Obviously, I don't disagree that our public administration could get axed pretty hard. As for Canada being "right leaning", I was clearly talking about it relatively to Quebec. Yes, Canada is left leaning. I'm a bit disappointed that you couldn't figure out what I was saying. Are you pissed off in general or did that grocery store manager really make you hate the province that badly? I'm really not terribly disappointed by that because it's exactly what I thought you were. Someone who's spent way too long in an education system. Shit works in a shitty way, people dislike said shitty system, they complain, they're arrogant? Sometimes the most complex circumstances in life can be solved by the simplest of solutions. You've just got to take a step back and come back to reality. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 28 2013 14:27 Dawski wrote: I'm really not terribly disappointed by that because it's exactly what I thought you were. Someone who's spent way too long in an education system. Shit works in a shitty way, people dislike said shitty system, they complain, they're arrogant? Sometimes the most complex circumstances in life can be solved by the simplest of solutions. You've just got to take a step back and come back to reality. Alright man. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On June 28 2013 10:37 Hier wrote: Yup, sounds like Quebec. Children at schools and kindergartens are forbidden to speak English. and every year they say they wanna be independent from the rest ... rly its such .... | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
"Menard did emphasize that speaking only French in her establishments is not required, rather it's requested." Employee didn't like what he/she was told by employer, employer has misguided principles or misunderstandings or purposeful distortion of law in Quebec, employee thus left organization and looks for a different job with out any disruption from the employer. So why is this a huge human rights issue again? I wasn't aware IGA was a political organization, nor that IGA held a monopoly of work for such employees in the area. What's next? Human rights violations filed in ESL class for forcing Indian children to only speak in English? Human rights violations filed in homes for parents forcing their children to only speak their mother's language? Give me a break. Shit happens every day across continents. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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lannisport
878 Posts
By last year, more than 62,000 newcomers who arrived between 2000 and 2009 had gone. Among entrepreneurs and other business people, the attrition rate was almost 60 per cent. English is the language of commerce, and knowledge, and well, most of the (developed) world. It's not a surprise that all the best universities and polytechniques are in Montreal or around it. I probably will go back to Toronto myself to start my business. Montreal is a great and (cheap) city but you probably have to look towards other provinces if you're serious about developing a professional career (Especially as an english speaker). | ||
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HotShizz
France710 Posts
honestly though, I am only getting one side of this from the employee, but it sounds so oppressively uncomfortable as a place to work. maybe its not so bad, people are prone to exaggerate, but if they are actively punishing people for speaking english, they live sad, sad sheltered lives. | ||
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