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Supreme court strikes down DOMA - Page 12

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cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
June 26 2013 22:53 GMT
#221
Not sure why the government cares whether we're married or not in the first place.... Differences in taxation based on marital status is as dumb as based on any other factor of one's life. I've no problem letting the states make up their own minds (which I believe DOMA did permit), but personally, I don't see why the fed ought care about who I may or may not be bound to for life.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
June 26 2013 22:54 GMT
#222
I'm still wondering if some has found another case like this United States vs. Windsor.

Namely, the United States asks the district court in a Motion to Dismiss that the court should agree with the lower court ruling and not dismiss the complaint.

Then, after having gotten precisely that (Motion to Dismiss not to dismiss), the United States appeals the decision not to dismiss. Good laughs, I'm almost done reading all 70 pages.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 26 2013 22:55 GMT
#223
On June 27 2013 07:53 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Not sure why the government cares whether we're married or not in the first place.... Differences in taxation based on marital status is as dumb as based on any other factor of one's life. I've no problem letting the states make up their own minds (which I believe DOMA did permit), but personally, I don't see why the fed ought care about who I may or may not be bound to for life.

Its based on the "traditional family" where the man has an income and the wife stays at home. the tax system rewards you for having "family values" and if your wife makes significantly less than you (or nothing) you get a tax break because your money has to go to both of you and not just yourself. meanwhile if you and your wife make similiar amounts, you get punished.

Daethan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States59 Posts
June 26 2013 22:56 GMT
#224
On June 27 2013 07:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 04:27 NovaTheFeared wrote:
On June 27 2013 03:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
So if it's declared unconstitutional at a federal level, does that mean it trickles down and all the states have to respect the federal ruling of SSM being legal and it being against the constitution to discriminate against that?

Alternatively, if the states aren't required to immediately adapt to this ruling wouldn't it take one lawsuit in each state which would then make that court look at the principle established in this case and then automatically make SSM legal?

If anyone could clarify, that would be awesome.


The ruling has nothing to do with that, no. States can choose to not allow SSM within their state and also not respect the SSM performed in other states. What this ruling does is that in the states that allow SSM, the federal government must consider them married for purposes of federal law such as estate tax, social security etc.

Thanks.

But I thought no one is immune to the constitution, IE: A state couldn't make slavery legal just because they wanted it. So if the supreme court, the highest court in the land says that the constitution doesn't allow discrimination against same sex marriage then wouldn't that have to trickle down and effect every state equally the same way Roe V. Wade made abortion legal throughout the country based off the right to privacy?


Unfortunately the Supreme Court did *NOT* say that the Constitution doesn't allow discrimination against same-sex marriage though I can understand why the issue is confusing especially considering how the media is covering the decision. So here are a couple points:

1. You are correct that a state cannot legalize slavery. This is because it would infringe upon a person's rights as defined in the Constitution.

2. This ruling says that the federal government does not have the right treat one class of people (gay couples) differently than (straight people) because the state law (in this case New York) treats them equally. Section 3 of DOMA defined marriage for federal purposes as only one man and one woman (i.e. in conflict with NY).

3. Section 2 of DOMA still holds since it was not part of this case because the plaintiff was legally married in NY. Section 2 protects other states from recognizing marriages that are legal in another. For example, if a gay couple from Utah gets married in California, Utah does not have to treat them as married.

I think it is only a matter of time before the constitutionality of Section 2 is decided, but until then it is still up to the states to define marriage. Right now that is about three dozen states. Today's decision was a good step forward but we still have a long way to go.
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
June 26 2013 22:59 GMT
#225
On June 27 2013 05:22 codonbyte wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 05:15 Romantic wrote:
On June 27 2013 03:58 alwaysfeeling wrote:
why aren't people asking why the state should have any say in peoples marital preferences to begin with?


Because all the benefits of marriages are given by... the state. Anyone can live together and do some stupid ceremony and be "married" in spirit, they just don't get tax breaks or hospital visitation rights, etc.

There are always going to be opinions as to what is acceptable for marriages. Personally, I don't imagine gay couples when I think of marriage and as such I've never supported making it legal.

So what you are saying is that just because you don't typically think of a gay couple when you think of marriage, therefore a lesbian should not have visitation rights to visit her partner who's sick and in the hospital? Because when you say you don't support making gay marriage legal, that is what you are saying: that gay couples do not deserve the same legal rights, benefits and responsibilities that you get to enjoy. Despicable.


Sorta, yeah, basically. I also don't think people under a certain age (im not tied to any in particular), people who believe in and try to set up arranged marriages, or polygamous types should have the same legal rights, benefits, and responsibilities. Big deal. I'm unsure on whether mentally handicapped people should be denied them too, I'm not wedded to either position. If I don't want 14 year olds getting married do I want severely mentally deficient adults to? I dunno, don't think about it much.

Marriage is just an opinion
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
June 26 2013 23:09 GMT
#226
On June 27 2013 07:35 packrat386 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 07:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On June 27 2013 04:27 NovaTheFeared wrote:
On June 27 2013 03:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
So if it's declared unconstitutional at a federal level, does that mean it trickles down and all the states have to respect the federal ruling of SSM being legal and it being against the constitution to discriminate against that?

Alternatively, if the states aren't required to immediately adapt to this ruling wouldn't it take one lawsuit in each state which would then make that court look at the principle established in this case and then automatically make SSM legal?

If anyone could clarify, that would be awesome.


The ruling has nothing to do with that, no. States can choose to not allow SSM within their state and also not respect the SSM performed in other states. What this ruling does is that in the states that allow SSM, the federal government must consider them married for purposes of federal law such as estate tax, social security etc.

Thanks.

But I thought no one is immune to the constitution, IE: A state couldn't make slavery legal just because they wanted it. So if the supreme court, the highest court in the land says that the constitution doesn't allow discrimination against same sex marriage then wouldn't that have to trickle down and effect every state equally the same way Roe V. Wade made abortion legal throughout the country based off the right to privacy?


The court didn't rule on whether offering marriage only to heterosexual couples was a violation of the 14th. They only ruled that it was a violation to withhold federal benefits to people with state sanctioned SSM's

Seems like semantics, but I guess that's what law is. Thanks for the clarification.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
June 26 2013 23:15 GMT
#227
On June 27 2013 07:56 Daethan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 07:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On June 27 2013 04:27 NovaTheFeared wrote:
On June 27 2013 03:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
So if it's declared unconstitutional at a federal level, does that mean it trickles down and all the states have to respect the federal ruling of SSM being legal and it being against the constitution to discriminate against that?

Alternatively, if the states aren't required to immediately adapt to this ruling wouldn't it take one lawsuit in each state which would then make that court look at the principle established in this case and then automatically make SSM legal?

If anyone could clarify, that would be awesome.


The ruling has nothing to do with that, no. States can choose to not allow SSM within their state and also not respect the SSM performed in other states. What this ruling does is that in the states that allow SSM, the federal government must consider them married for purposes of federal law such as estate tax, social security etc.

Thanks.

But I thought no one is immune to the constitution, IE: A state couldn't make slavery legal just because they wanted it. So if the supreme court, the highest court in the land says that the constitution doesn't allow discrimination against same sex marriage then wouldn't that have to trickle down and effect every state equally the same way Roe V. Wade made abortion legal throughout the country based off the right to privacy?


Unfortunately the Supreme Court did *NOT* say that the Constitution doesn't allow discrimination against same-sex marriage though I can understand why the issue is confusing especially considering how the media is covering the decision. So here are a couple points:

1. You are correct that a state cannot legalize slavery. This is because it would infringe upon a person's rights as defined in the Constitution.

2. This ruling says that the federal government does not have the right treat one class of people (gay couples) differently than (straight people) because the state law (in this case New York) treats them equally. Section 3 of DOMA defined marriage for federal purposes as only one man and one woman (i.e. in conflict with NY).

3. Section 2 of DOMA still holds since it was not part of this case because the plaintiff was legally married in NY. Section 2 protects other states from recognizing marriages that are legal in another. For example, if a gay couple from Utah gets married in California, Utah does not have to treat them as married.

I think it is only a matter of time before the constitutionality of Section 2 is decided, but until then it is still up to the states to define marriage. Right now that is about three dozen states. Today's decision was a good step forward but we still have a long way to go.

I was reading section two just now. If they overturned section 2 wouldn't that just require states that have SSM as illegal to recognize SSM performed in states that allow it?

Section 2. Powers reserved to the states
No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.

IE: If it said "states are allowed to decide whether same sex marriage is legal in their state and can choose to respect/not respect other states laws pertaining to that." and that was ruled unconstitutional then all states would have to respect SSM being either legal or illegal and not have a choice in the matter. However the wording of section two only seems to indicate whether state that don't have SSM need to recognize the marriage of individuals who get married in states that allow it.

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screamingpalm
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1527 Posts
June 26 2013 23:15 GMT
#228
On June 27 2013 00:40 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 00:38 PassiveAce wrote:
Fuck yeah

Was hoping it would be 9-0 though

Nah, for 9-0's you need something super dumb, like copyrighting human DNA.


And even then you have Scalia writing a semi-dissent LOL.

Glad to see some good news out of SCOTUS. Stay classy Scalia. :D
MMT University is coming! http://www.mmtuniversity.org/
Lockitupv2
Profile Joined March 2012
United States496 Posts
June 26 2013 23:16 GMT
#229
Probably one of the most frustrating days of my life. Ignoring the fact of massive misunderstanding of why the scotus ruled each way and the actual outcomes, people who wanted doma to be overturned are cheering for the scotus.

Lets be serious for a moment.
No one, gay or straight, has any reason to thank anyone in office for these outcomes. There is only one thing you can thank and that is the Constitution. Well, I guess you could thank the people who wrote it.

The supreme court doesnt care about your campaign for gay marriage. It doesnt care about your equality. It doesnt even care if you are gay. The supreme court cares only about one thing which is making sure the laws/rules/etc are all valid under the constitution.

Also, it was a good day for state rights. If only there was a politician who believed greatly in state rights.

It gets a bad rep for being old (by some) but that hardly means it is irrelevant.
That's right folks, I definitely heard an ethnic twang in that voice, so everyone put your guesses on the screen. It's everyone's favorite game, it's Guess the Minority!!!
ZackAttack
Profile Joined June 2011
United States884 Posts
June 26 2013 23:20 GMT
#230
The rainbow horse doesn't seem so pointless now, does it?
It's better aerodynamics for space. - Artosis
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
June 26 2013 23:20 GMT
#231
On June 27 2013 07:55 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 07:53 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Not sure why the government cares whether we're married or not in the first place.... Differences in taxation based on marital status is as dumb as based on any other factor of one's life. I've no problem letting the states make up their own minds (which I believe DOMA did permit), but personally, I don't see why the fed ought care about who I may or may not be bound to for life.

Its based on the "traditional family" where the man has an income and the wife stays at home. the tax system rewards you for having "family values" and if your wife makes significantly less than you (or nothing) you get a tax break because your money has to go to both of you and not just yourself. meanwhile if you and your wife make similiar amounts, you get punished.



See, I don't think it should be doing that, as the converse of it negatively affects single people. It's essentially hurting people of one group while aiding another. I cannot see why the government should benefit certain citizens of those not included do no injustice against the law. It should remain a negative force (against infringements on liberty and property), not a positive one.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
Daethan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States59 Posts
June 26 2013 23:45 GMT
#232
On June 27 2013 08:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 07:56 Daethan wrote:
On June 27 2013 07:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On June 27 2013 04:27 NovaTheFeared wrote:
On June 27 2013 03:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
So if it's declared unconstitutional at a federal level, does that mean it trickles down and all the states have to respect the federal ruling of SSM being legal and it being against the constitution to discriminate against that?

Alternatively, if the states aren't required to immediately adapt to this ruling wouldn't it take one lawsuit in each state which would then make that court look at the principle established in this case and then automatically make SSM legal?

If anyone could clarify, that would be awesome.


The ruling has nothing to do with that, no. States can choose to not allow SSM within their state and also not respect the SSM performed in other states. What this ruling does is that in the states that allow SSM, the federal government must consider them married for purposes of federal law such as estate tax, social security etc.

Thanks.

But I thought no one is immune to the constitution, IE: A state couldn't make slavery legal just because they wanted it. So if the supreme court, the highest court in the land says that the constitution doesn't allow discrimination against same sex marriage then wouldn't that have to trickle down and effect every state equally the same way Roe V. Wade made abortion legal throughout the country based off the right to privacy?


Unfortunately the Supreme Court did *NOT* say that the Constitution doesn't allow discrimination against same-sex marriage though I can understand why the issue is confusing especially considering how the media is covering the decision. So here are a couple points:

1. You are correct that a state cannot legalize slavery. This is because it would infringe upon a person's rights as defined in the Constitution.

2. This ruling says that the federal government does not have the right treat one class of people (gay couples) differently than (straight people) because the state law (in this case New York) treats them equally. Section 3 of DOMA defined marriage for federal purposes as only one man and one woman (i.e. in conflict with NY).

3. Section 2 of DOMA still holds since it was not part of this case because the plaintiff was legally married in NY. Section 2 protects other states from recognizing marriages that are legal in another. For example, if a gay couple from Utah gets married in California, Utah does not have to treat them as married.

I think it is only a matter of time before the constitutionality of Section 2 is decided, but until then it is still up to the states to define marriage. Right now that is about three dozen states. Today's decision was a good step forward but we still have a long way to go.

I was reading section two just now. If they overturned section 2 wouldn't that just require states that have SSM as illegal to recognize SSM performed in states that allow it?
Show nested quote +

Section 2. Powers reserved to the states
No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.

IE: If it said "states are allowed to decide whether same sex marriage is legal in their state and can choose to respect/not respect other states laws pertaining to that." and that was ruled unconstitutional then all states would have to respect SSM being either legal or illegal and not have a choice in the matter. However the wording of section two only seems to indicate whether state that don't have SSM need to recognize the marriage of individuals who get married in states that allow it.



Yes and no. Section 2 only says that states that consider same-sex marriage illegal do not have to recognize marriages from other states. However, if it were to be overturned it would likely be on the basis of the Equal Protection Clause and not the Full Faith and Credit Clause. I'll try to explain both scenarios:

1. The Full Faith and Credit Clause basically says that states have to respect judgments, public acts, etc. of other states. DOMA was passed to make gay marriages an exception. If the Court overturned Section 2 on this basis then it would mean that Utah would have to recognize a California marriage, but wouldn't necessarily allow gay marriages to be performed in Utah.

2. The Equal Protection Clause says that states cannot deny anyone equal protection of the law. This and the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment was cited in the case that overturned interracial marriage bans in 1967 (Loving v. Virginia). If Section 2 was overturned on this basis it would be broader than scenario 1. It would say, Utah you cannot deny some couples the right to marry simply because one is gay and the other is straight.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
June 26 2013 23:50 GMT
#233
On June 27 2013 08:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Probably one of the most frustrating days of my life. Ignoring the fact of massive misunderstanding of why the scotus ruled each way and the actual outcomes, people who wanted doma to be overturned are cheering for the scotus.

Lets be serious for a moment.
No one, gay or straight, has any reason to thank anyone in office for these outcomes. There is only one thing you can thank and that is the Constitution. Well, I guess you could thank the people who wrote it.

The supreme court doesnt care about your campaign for gay marriage. It doesnt care about your equality. It doesnt even care if you are gay. The supreme court cares only about one thing which is making sure the laws/rules/etc are all valid under the constitution.

Also, it was a good day for state rights. If only there was a politician who believed greatly in state rights.

It gets a bad rep for being old (by some) but that hardly means it is irrelevant.

Exuberant outbursts over topical rulings isn't a good way to show it, but I think it's good to express or at least harbor gratitude that there is a body of experts willing to strive to execute the role of their office in the spirit in which it was created, to protect and enforce what might be the most humane ruleset of governance yet devised.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
PCloadletter
Profile Joined June 2013
41 Posts
June 27 2013 00:02 GMT
#234
On June 27 2013 08:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:
The supreme court doesnt care about your campaign for gay marriage. It doesnt care about your equality. It doesnt even care if you are gay. The supreme court cares only about one thing which is making sure the laws/rules/etc are all valid under the constitution.

That is how they are supposed to think, doesn't mean they actually do. They almost all put their own beliefs into a ruling even if they hide it under legal justifications. That is why the court is so often divided along ideological lines. Especially Ginsburg, she frequently puts constitutionality questions aside and focuses on the pragmatic consequences of the decision. Some think that is good, of course.
I'm not asking for much here. I only wish to speak my mind and afford others the same respect.
SuperMan9
Profile Joined May 2013
United States5 Posts
June 27 2013 00:34 GMT
#235
A great step in the right direction.
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are." - Mewtwo
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 00:41:38
June 27 2013 00:38 GMT
#236
On June 27 2013 06:25 Plans ix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 06:15 Jibba wrote:
On June 27 2013 06:14 Plansix wrote:
On June 27 2013 06:03 Jibba wrote:
On June 27 2013 05:52 Plansix wrote:
On June 27 2013 05:45 On_Slaught wrote:
The dissents on the DOMA case were all based upon the SCOTUS not having jurisdiction to rule. This line especially, from Scalia sums it up well:

"That is jaw-dropping. It is an assertion of judicial supremacy over the people’s Representatives in Congress and the Executive. It envisions a Supreme Court standing (or rather enthroned) at the apex of government, empowered to decide all constitutional questions, always and every- where “primary” in its role."

To me this screams of hypocrisy and cherry picking times to apply such an attitude. He essentially took the opposite view in Bush v Gore.

Bush v Gore was always going to end the way it did. The SCOTUS is never gong to decide or overturn an election. Ever. Even if it is flawed and broken, you are stuck with the election that you ran. The SCOTUS will never people sue because they don't like the outcome of the presidential election. That is a true slippery slope and they will never go near it.

What about the VRA yesterday? They literally said the reason is because social conditions have changed. If you claim to be against activism, you can't strike down a law for that reason. It's for Congress to decide.


The ruling on that basically said: "Congress, update you 50 year old voter registration law, rather than renewing it. Shit has changed. Do you job."

As I said before, your going to see a lot of more these where SCOTUS basically calls out the legislator for not getting shit done. They do not like overuling laws or being forced to rule on laws based on practices from +50 years ago.

That is fucking judicial activism.

They're making a judgment on the public policy aspects of a current law. Who's to say it needs to be updated? Upon what criteria? The criteria legislators deal with.

I can't think of a more obvious example of judicial activism in recent memory.

The ruling said that Congress could pass a law with the exact same rules as to voter restrictions, but they needed to be based on current information, not information from 50 years ago. That was the problem with the law, not that it was bad, but that congress couldn't get anyone to agree what the new rules should be, so they just renewed the old one. The SCOTUS told them no, you can't restrict states ability to set voting rules based on information from the 1960s.

And when I say it said, it literally said "Congress can pass a law to protect voters rights and limit discrimination at the polls, but it must be based on current information."
Do you have any idea how many old laws are still in effect based on old information or norms? There are time limits they can add to laws for that explicit purpose. It is not at all the job of a judicially restrictive bench to make that decision.

We don't throw out old laws like that. It is 100% absolutely a case of judicial activism. They decided the public policy aspects of the law were no longer relevant. That's then making a judgment on public policy, not legality.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 01:15:16
June 27 2013 01:13 GMT
#237
On June 27 2013 08:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Probably one of the most frustrating days of my life. Ignoring the fact of massive misunderstanding of why the scotus ruled each way and the actual outcomes, people who wanted doma to be overturned are cheering for the scotus.

Lets be serious for a moment.
No one, gay or straight, has any reason to thank anyone in office for these outcomes. There is only one thing you can thank and that is the Constitution. Well, I guess you could thank the people who wrote it.

The supreme court doesnt care about your campaign for gay marriage. It doesnt care about your equality. It doesnt even care if you are gay. The supreme court cares only about one thing which is making sure the laws/rules/etc are all valid under the constitution.

Also, it was a good day for state rights. If only there was a politician who believed greatly in state rights.

It gets a bad rep for being old (by some) but that hardly means it is irrelevant.

States rights gets a bad rep because it's often used to justify dodging things that the federal government mandates. States rights should only exist if they serve some sort of pragmatic purpose. Things that are issues of human rights shouldn't be down to the states to decide because they apply universally regardless of one's location. I swear, America's ethical dilemmas would be solved so much more quickly if they just nixed this concept that one state can think the death penalty is heinous and another think that it's justified. The answer to such a debate doesn't change based on where you live. Why then should it vary within a nation?

++ It would be splendid if the SCOTUS was more liberal in its interpretation of the constitution. It would be awfully convenient for the progression of precedent for them to take a more serious interest in pressing ethical debates rather than just shying away from them or ruling based on technicalities. Bite the bullet, I say.
Lockitupv2
Profile Joined March 2012
United States496 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-27 01:19:39
June 27 2013 01:17 GMT
#238
On June 27 2013 10:13 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 08:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Probably one of the most frustrating days of my life. Ignoring the fact of massive misunderstanding of why the scotus ruled each way and the actual outcomes, people who wanted doma to be overturned are cheering for the scotus.

Lets be serious for a moment.
No one, gay or straight, has any reason to thank anyone in office for these outcomes. There is only one thing you can thank and that is the Constitution. Well, I guess you could thank the people who wrote it.

The supreme court doesnt care about your campaign for gay marriage. It doesnt care about your equality. It doesnt even care if you are gay. The supreme court cares only about one thing which is making sure the laws/rules/etc are all valid under the constitution.

Also, it was a good day for state rights. If only there was a politician who believed greatly in state rights.

It gets a bad rep for being old (by some) but that hardly means it is irrelevant.

States rights gets a bad rep because it's often used to justify dodging things that the federal government mandates. States rights should only exist if they serve some sort of pragmatic purpose. Things that are issues of human rights shouldn't be down to the states to decide because they apply universally regardless of one's location. I swear, America's ethical dilemmas would be solved so much more quickly if they just nixed this concept that one state can think the death penalty is heinous and another think that it's justified. The answer to such a debate doesn't change based on where you live. Why then should it vary within a nation?

++ It would be splendid if the SCOTUS was more liberal in its interpretation of the constitution. It would be awfully convenient for the progression of precedent for them to take a more serious interest in pressing ethical debates rather than just shying away from them or ruling based on technicalities. Bite the bullet, I say.



I was talking about the constitution being old but I was unclear.

You picked a bad example because you can argue that the death penalty is against the constitution.

Now you are arguing for a vast power increase for the scotus.
That's right folks, I definitely heard an ethnic twang in that voice, so everyone put your guesses on the screen. It's everyone's favorite game, it's Guess the Minority!!!
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
June 27 2013 01:19 GMT
#239
On June 27 2013 10:17 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 10:13 Shiori wrote:
On June 27 2013 08:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Probably one of the most frustrating days of my life. Ignoring the fact of massive misunderstanding of why the scotus ruled each way and the actual outcomes, people who wanted doma to be overturned are cheering for the scotus.

Lets be serious for a moment.
No one, gay or straight, has any reason to thank anyone in office for these outcomes. There is only one thing you can thank and that is the Constitution. Well, I guess you could thank the people who wrote it.

The supreme court doesnt care about your campaign for gay marriage. It doesnt care about your equality. It doesnt even care if you are gay. The supreme court cares only about one thing which is making sure the laws/rules/etc are all valid under the constitution.

Also, it was a good day for state rights. If only there was a politician who believed greatly in state rights.

It gets a bad rep for being old (by some) but that hardly means it is irrelevant.

States rights gets a bad rep because it's often used to justify dodging things that the federal government mandates. States rights should only exist if they serve some sort of pragmatic purpose. Things that are issues of human rights shouldn't be down to the states to decide because they apply universally regardless of one's location. I swear, America's ethical dilemmas would be solved so much more quickly if they just nixed this concept that one state can think the death penalty is heinous and another think that it's justified. The answer to such a debate doesn't change based on where you live. Why then should it vary within a nation?

++ It would be splendid if the SCOTUS was more liberal in its interpretation of the constitution. It would be awfully convenient for the progression of precedent for them to take a more serious interest in pressing ethical debates rather than just shying away from them or ruling based on technicalities. Bite the bullet, I say.



I was talking about the constitution being old but I was unclear.

You picked a bad example because you can argue that the death penalty is against the constitution

You can argue that, but you can also argue that it's an issue for the states.
Lockitupv2
Profile Joined March 2012
United States496 Posts
June 27 2013 01:20 GMT
#240
On June 27 2013 10:19 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2013 10:17 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On June 27 2013 10:13 Shiori wrote:
On June 27 2013 08:16 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Probably one of the most frustrating days of my life. Ignoring the fact of massive misunderstanding of why the scotus ruled each way and the actual outcomes, people who wanted doma to be overturned are cheering for the scotus.

Lets be serious for a moment.
No one, gay or straight, has any reason to thank anyone in office for these outcomes. There is only one thing you can thank and that is the Constitution. Well, I guess you could thank the people who wrote it.

The supreme court doesnt care about your campaign for gay marriage. It doesnt care about your equality. It doesnt even care if you are gay. The supreme court cares only about one thing which is making sure the laws/rules/etc are all valid under the constitution.

Also, it was a good day for state rights. If only there was a politician who believed greatly in state rights.

It gets a bad rep for being old (by some) but that hardly means it is irrelevant.

States rights gets a bad rep because it's often used to justify dodging things that the federal government mandates. States rights should only exist if they serve some sort of pragmatic purpose. Things that are issues of human rights shouldn't be down to the states to decide because they apply universally regardless of one's location. I swear, America's ethical dilemmas would be solved so much more quickly if they just nixed this concept that one state can think the death penalty is heinous and another think that it's justified. The answer to such a debate doesn't change based on where you live. Why then should it vary within a nation?

++ It would be splendid if the SCOTUS was more liberal in its interpretation of the constitution. It would be awfully convenient for the progression of precedent for them to take a more serious interest in pressing ethical debates rather than just shying away from them or ruling based on technicalities. Bite the bullet, I say.



I was talking about the constitution being old but I was unclear.

You picked a bad example because you can argue that the death penalty is against the constitution

You can argue that, but you can also argue that it's an issue for the states.



No.... the bill of rights is applied at the state (and federal) level, try again.
That's right folks, I definitely heard an ethnic twang in that voice, so everyone put your guesses on the screen. It's everyone's favorite game, it's Guess the Minority!!!
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