|
Please attempt to distinguish between extremists and non extremists to avoid starting the inevitable waste of time that is "can Islam be judged by its believers?" - KwarK |
On May 23 2013 08:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 07:52 Rokit5 wrote:On May 23 2013 03:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:
They should be executed in the most painful manner possible. No! imprisoned for life. That is a way, way harder punishment. But is it, really? Think about it, they get free food and housing for the rest of their lives supported by the taxpayers of the very community that their crimes damaged. Is that really worse than dying? Especially if we consider the option that they weren't in fact religious extremists, but insane lunatics who may or may not feel any remorse whatsoever? It's tricky. There's a realistic standpoint to this notion, not just a purely moral-based one, and both should be considered and weighed.
Who cares if the act was religiously motivated or not, does not change the fact that religion is still made up by man and people believing in it are delusional. It is the worst stand alone complex that has ever been.
The most stupid thing I have seen on this video is the man making an excuse to a woman and justifying that this type of violence happens in his homeland ...
What is the message behind this, there are stupid fucks in his homeland and so he is a stupid fuck ? Or that we should get rid of these stupid fucks ? I don't know ... Humans are just humans and will be dead anyway in a few years and in this blink of an eye they call live they still manage to do so much bullshit, it is incredible.
If this was some kind of terror attack it is the most stupid and dumbest shit I have ever seen.
|
On May 23 2013 08:15 AmorphousPhoenix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 08:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 23 2013 08:01 AmorphousPhoenix wrote:On May 23 2013 07:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:
People going out and attacking mosques like at least two have according to ITV are not exactly refuting the jihadi belief that the West is at war with Islam itself good job guys. I guess those jihadi's will just have to learn that you can't judge the entire West by the actions of a minority. lol... I don't know if you're aware but the joke you're trying to pull off makes the implication that "jihadis" and the Islamic community are one and the same thing, I don't know if you're aware but the post I quoted used the term jihadis, which is why I used the term. Simple as that.
Wow...
Ok, I'll try explaining this one more time.
You're taking a jab of sorts at "the Western public shouldn't judge the entirety of Islam based off of the extremists' actions" by spinning it around, but you fail to see the fact that it simply doesn't apply, since "jihadis" are not entirely rational and already believe in waging a holy war. There is little hope of convincing them of their foolishness, while on the other hand we must be cautious that the public opinion doesn't project a limited minority's actions onto a massive community of people lest we risk spurring a legitimate holy war.
|
On May 23 2013 08:20 Holy_AT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 08:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 23 2013 07:52 Rokit5 wrote:On May 23 2013 03:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:
They should be executed in the most painful manner possible. No! imprisoned for life. That is a way, way harder punishment. But is it, really? Think about it, they get free food and housing for the rest of their lives supported by the taxpayers of the very community that their crimes damaged. Is that really worse than dying? Especially if we consider the option that they weren't in fact religious extremists, but insane lunatics who may or may not feel any remorse whatsoever? It's tricky. There's a realistic standpoint to this notion, not just a purely moral-based one, and both should be considered and weighed. Who cares if the act was religiously motivated or not, does not change the fact that religion is still made up by man and people believing in it are delusional. It is the worst stand alone complex that has ever been. The most stupid thing I have seen on this video is the man making an excuse to a woman and justifying that this type of violence happens in his homeland ... What is the message behind this, there are stupid fucks in his homeland and so he is a stupid fuck ? Or that we should get rid of these stupid fucks ? I don't know ... Humans are just humans and will be dead anyway in a few years and in this blink of an eye they call live they still manage to do so much bullshit, it is incredible. If this was some kind of terror attack it is the most stupid and dumbest shit I have ever seen.
For all its wrongs, religion does tend to instill some semblance of morals into its followers, which is why a religious man might start understanding his wrongdoing after spending some time incarcerated, whereas a deranged psychopath will probably not.
|
Apparently one of the attackers is Michael Adeboloja - who goes by the name "Mujahid" which apparently means "One who fights Jihad"
Can't find any reputable sources - and I found out from the jester's twitter feed (he's a patriot hacker, https://twitter.com/th3j35t3r )
Again, no reputable confirmed sources though.
|
On May 23 2013 08:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 08:20 Holy_AT wrote:On May 23 2013 08:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 23 2013 07:52 Rokit5 wrote:On May 23 2013 03:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:
They should be executed in the most painful manner possible. No! imprisoned for life. That is a way, way harder punishment. But is it, really? Think about it, they get free food and housing for the rest of their lives supported by the taxpayers of the very community that their crimes damaged. Is that really worse than dying? Especially if we consider the option that they weren't in fact religious extremists, but insane lunatics who may or may not feel any remorse whatsoever? It's tricky. There's a realistic standpoint to this notion, not just a purely moral-based one, and both should be considered and weighed. Who cares if the act was religiously motivated or not, does not change the fact that religion is still made up by man and people believing in it are delusional. It is the worst stand alone complex that has ever been. The most stupid thing I have seen on this video is the man making an excuse to a woman and justifying that this type of violence happens in his homeland ... What is the message behind this, there are stupid fucks in his homeland and so he is a stupid fuck ? Or that we should get rid of these stupid fucks ? I don't know ... Humans are just humans and will be dead anyway in a few years and in this blink of an eye they call live they still manage to do so much bullshit, it is incredible. If this was some kind of terror attack it is the most stupid and dumbest shit I have ever seen. For all its wrongs, religion does tend to instill some semblance of morals into its followers, which is why a religious man might start understanding his wrongdoing after spending some time incarcerated, whereas a deranged psychopath will probably not.
A deranged psychopath might be healed and come to his senses while a religious extremist is blinded by his misguided faith and will never see the essence of things.
See what I did here ? A statement like this is as worthless as yours.
Fact is and everyone agrees, because at some point you just have to admit that there is no god and you do not have a soul and the rest of the stories that you are being programmed with from childhood on.
And I would further like to see someone guided by logic, intelligence, ethics and compassion then by a bullshit made up story with lots of shit in it.
|
On May 23 2013 08:17 qosu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 08:13 Larkin wrote:On May 23 2013 08:10 StarStruck wrote:On May 23 2013 08:07 DeepElemBlues wrote:On May 23 2013 08:06 Saumure wrote:On May 23 2013 08:06 Hypemeup wrote:On May 23 2013 08:05 KwarK wrote:On May 23 2013 08:03 PVJ wrote:
Just saw this on v too.
wtf.
London really must be a tenser city to live at, than I've remembered it from holidays. Far, far safer from terrorism now than it was during the troubles. The troubles? He is refering to the riots I guess. He's referring to the 1960s-1980s and the IRA. IRA was quite something else, but weren't there riots in 2011 as well? Yes but "The Troubles" is a name given to the IRA conflict. On May 23 2013 08:03 PVJ wrote:
Just saw this on v too.
wtf.
London really must be a tenser city to live at, than I've remembered it from holidays. I wouldn't judge all of London based on this. It's an enormous city and the northern parts of it in particular are more common for Islamic extremism. I live in South London and it's totally safe. There are just areas you need to be careful in, as in any city. Be careful, Larkin. We wouldn't want you to get your privilege checked like this chap.
Trust me, I know my privilege.
Interesting comment about perspective on this: the majority of the Islamic world views extremists in the same way the majority of the Christian world views the Westboro Baptist Church.
|
1. They made the statement on film that "sorry women had to see this but women are seeing this every day in our county"
2. Neither suspect is dead, they are both in hospital after the WPC shot them
having read the first 6 pages of this thread I thought it was important to the discussion to iterate these facts
|
On May 23 2013 08:41 CursedRich wrote:
1. They made the statement on film that "sorry women had to see this but women are seeing this every day in our county"
2. Neither suspect is dead, they are both in hospital after the WPC shot them
having read the first 6 pages of this thread I thought it was important to the discussion to iterate these facts
Makes sense.. It was a female cop who shot them after all.
|
Terror "incident"? Hardly. Murder will do just fine for a label here.
|
On May 23 2013 08:28 Abductedonut wrote:Apparently one of the attackers is Michael Adeboloja - who goes by the name "Mujahid" which apparently means "One who fights Jihad" Can't find any reputable sources - and I found out from the jester's twitter feed (he's a patriot hacker, https://twitter.com/th3j35t3r ) Again, no reputable confirmed sources though.
Woot, I was hoping someone would mention th3j35t3r! Been following him forever, great stuff
|
On May 23 2013 08:35 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 08:17 qosu wrote:On May 23 2013 08:13 Larkin wrote:On May 23 2013 08:10 StarStruck wrote:On May 23 2013 08:07 DeepElemBlues wrote:On May 23 2013 08:06 Saumure wrote:On May 23 2013 08:06 Hypemeup wrote:On May 23 2013 08:05 KwarK wrote:On May 23 2013 08:03 PVJ wrote:
Just saw this on v too.
wtf.
London really must be a tenser city to live at, than I've remembered it from holidays. Far, far safer from terrorism now than it was during the troubles. The troubles? He is refering to the riots I guess. He's referring to the 1960s-1980s and the IRA. IRA was quite something else, but weren't there riots in 2011 as well? Yes but "The Troubles" is a name given to the IRA conflict. On May 23 2013 08:03 PVJ wrote:
Just saw this on v too.
wtf.
London really must be a tenser city to live at, than I've remembered it from holidays. I wouldn't judge all of London based on this. It's an enormous city and the northern parts of it in particular are more common for Islamic extremism. I live in South London and it's totally safe. There are just areas you need to be careful in, as in any city. Be careful, Larkin. We wouldn't want you to get your privilege checked like this chap. Trust me, I know my privilege. Interesting comment about perspective on this: the majority of the Islamic world views extremists in the same way the majority of the Christian world views the Westboro Baptist Church.
Thing is, we don't regularly hear about WBC blowing things up or killing people on almost a weekly basis. They are lunatics, but bunching two different groups of extremists together just because they are extremists doesn't make them equally crazy.
|
On May 23 2013 08:53 Rowrin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 08:35 Larkin wrote:On May 23 2013 08:17 qosu wrote:On May 23 2013 08:13 Larkin wrote:On May 23 2013 08:10 StarStruck wrote:On May 23 2013 08:07 DeepElemBlues wrote:On May 23 2013 08:06 Saumure wrote:On May 23 2013 08:06 Hypemeup wrote:On May 23 2013 08:05 KwarK wrote:On May 23 2013 08:03 PVJ wrote:
Just saw this on v too.
wtf.
London really must be a tenser city to live at, than I've remembered it from holidays. Far, far safer from terrorism now than it was during the troubles. The troubles? He is refering to the riots I guess. He's referring to the 1960s-1980s and the IRA. IRA was quite something else, but weren't there riots in 2011 as well? Yes but "The Troubles" is a name given to the IRA conflict. On May 23 2013 08:03 PVJ wrote:
Just saw this on v too.
wtf.
London really must be a tenser city to live at, than I've remembered it from holidays. I wouldn't judge all of London based on this. It's an enormous city and the northern parts of it in particular are more common for Islamic extremism. I live in South London and it's totally safe. There are just areas you need to be careful in, as in any city. Be careful, Larkin. We wouldn't want you to get your privilege checked like this chap. Trust me, I know my privilege. Interesting comment about perspective on this: the majority of the Islamic world views extremists in the same way the majority of the Christian world views the Westboro Baptist Church. Thing is, we don't regularly hear about WBC blowing things up or killing people on almost a weekly basis. They are lunatics, but bunching two different groups of extremists together just because they are extremists doesn't make them equally crazy.
Of course. But the point is not to lump all Muslims as supporting or puporting the actions of the few, in the same way not all Christians support or puport the views of the WBC.
|
this should have a NSFL tag! wtf! in london???
|
My condolences to the family of the victim. I'm sorry he had to pursue a military career.
Why oh why do I even read such threads? :sadface: People kill a soldier because they felt he was responsible for the killing of "their brothers" in afghanistan, and a large majority already jumps on the "fucking muslims, lets kill them/deport them" bandwagon. I don't see any difference to those in arabic countries burning US flags. Lunatics everywhere.
And all this judgement is done without knowing anything about the mental state of these people. Norway state attourney tried to get Breivik "of unsound mind", you remember? Please give this chance to these assaulters as well. I know it is against the gut, but it is the right thing to do.
The victim being a soldier leads to in my eyes far more interesting discussion: "What seperates war, terrorism and plain murder" Of course there are easy answers like scale, involved parties etc, but the line is very blurry in my opinion. Other interesting discussions could be: Why is it generally accepted to kill people when wearing a uniform but not without one? What does militarism mean today? Do we see soldiers as subjects or objects? It feels like the last interesting, coherent and widely recognized statements in this broad discussion were by Eisenhower and Carl Sandburg. It seems like polemology (sociology of war) isn't even a recognized field of research in english speaking areas where as military sociology is. Why is that? Why the high praise for "our boys" when we know those poor (in all different meanings of the word!) boys mostly just throw their lifes away for our corrupt leaders? Am I the only one that has a problem finding solid logic behind this? The emotional quick explanations are easy to see, but why is nobody looking beyond them? To me it feels like there are a lot of inconsistencies in modern societies' views about violent conflict and all the neighbouring fields.
|
On May 23 2013 08:45 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Terror "incident"? Hardly. Murder will do just fine for a label here.
It's still terrorism (or religious terrorism because i don't want to argue), the scale doesn't matter. It also looks like it is just one incident by two fuckers non related to any terrorist organization, or am i missing something ?
|
One white guy dies, stop dat mutha-fuckin press, yo.
This is media created drama. Otherwise it is a total fucking non-event. Jesus, the stupid is strong in this one.
Oh and I'm both a UK citizen and have served. Seriously, this is just a distraction from the fact David Cameron is about to get a vote of no confidence from his party. It's not news, any more than every day when we slot 20 Afghans and no one gives a fuck.
User was warned for this post
|
The reason why people are calling this a terror incident and not a murder, is because of the motivate of the two suspects for killing the soldier and in such a gruesome method.
I really hope something happens to the culprits and I will doubt that this will not occur again. This man had a British accent likely to be born in England. To kill while yelling "ALLAHU AKBAR" and to kill for an eye for an eye? These stories worry me and my Muslim friends though their parents are not reacting as much as their offsprings.
|
On May 23 2013 08:53 Rowrin wrote:
Thing is, we don't regularly hear about WBC blowing things up or killing people on almost a weekly basis. They are lunatics, but bunching two different groups of extremists together just because they are extremists doesn't make them equally crazy.
Every single part of this statement I disagree with. Can anyone help out? Or do I really need to do a play by play?
|
On May 23 2013 08:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 08:20 Holy_AT wrote:On May 23 2013 08:00 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 23 2013 07:52 Rokit5 wrote:On May 23 2013 03:32 AnomalySC2 wrote:
They should be executed in the most painful manner possible. No! imprisoned for life. That is a way, way harder punishment. But is it, really? Think about it, they get free food and housing for the rest of their lives supported by the taxpayers of the very community that their crimes damaged. Is that really worse than dying? Especially if we consider the option that they weren't in fact religious extremists, but insane lunatics who may or may not feel any remorse whatsoever? It's tricky. There's a realistic standpoint to this notion, not just a purely moral-based one, and both should be considered and weighed. Who cares if the act was religiously motivated or not, does not change the fact that religion is still made up by man and people believing in it are delusional. It is the worst stand alone complex that has ever been. The most stupid thing I have seen on this video is the man making an excuse to a woman and justifying that this type of violence happens in his homeland ... What is the message behind this, there are stupid fucks in his homeland and so he is a stupid fuck ? Or that we should get rid of these stupid fucks ? I don't know ... Humans are just humans and will be dead anyway in a few years and in this blink of an eye they call live they still manage to do so much bullshit, it is incredible. If this was some kind of terror attack it is the most stupid and dumbest shit I have ever seen. For all its wrongs, religion does tend to instill some semblance of morals into its followers, which is why a religious man might start understanding his wrongdoing after spending some time incarcerated, whereas a deranged psychopath will probably not.
Can't say I agree, simple logic dictates that most deranged psychopaths are actually religious, the countries that have the most atrocities commited tend to be deeply religious, while an flourishing atheist community usually indicates a more civilized society, not to mention that atheists are on average better educated then religious people, which helps an awful lot in actually understanding morality.
Nietzsche is often misrepresented by those with an agenda, the absence of a god does not mean morality is void, it is a core principle of what makes us human, and we should guard it because if we don't we lose possibly the greatest human achievement.
What morality is often considered to be he had issues with, mostly the parts that are leftovers from outdated cultural or religious traditions.
|
On May 23 2013 09:06 NSGrendel wrote:
One white guy dies, stop dat mutha-fuckin press, yo.
This is media created drama. Otherwise it is a total fucking non-event. Jesus, the stupid is strong in this one.
Oh and I'm both a UK citizen and have served. Seriously, this is just a distraction from the fact David Cameron is about to get a vote of no confidence from his party. It's not news, any more than every day when we slot 20 Afghans and no one gives a fuck.
Don't get me wrong people get murdered everyday, shot, stabbed, poisoned etc. but not everyday someone gets beheaded IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET. This is far from "everyday" to me and the rest of the population.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
