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"White Paper" from Ob DOJ justifies assassination - Page 2

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
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motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
February 06 2013 05:18 GMT
#21
You really thought that this was the best article to link?
ModeratorGood content always wins.
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
February 06 2013 05:37 GMT
#22
Most of terrorism in the US come from their own extrem right wing, not foreign countries, seems fair & logical.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
February 06 2013 06:10 GMT
#23
Document or no document, of course they can kill who ever they want. I don't see how this changes anything.
Jisall
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2054 Posts
February 06 2013 06:13 GMT
#24
On February 06 2013 14:37 nojok wrote:
Most of terrorism in the US come from their own extrem right wing, not foreign countries, seems fair & logical.


Last i checked Obama was left wing. Nice try however.
Monk: Because being a badass is more fun then playing a dude wearing a scarf.. ... Ite fuck it, Witch Doctor cuz I like killing stuff in a timely mannor.
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1598 Posts
February 06 2013 06:28 GMT
#25
Do people really think that John the grocer who moved to Saudi Arabia to be with his wife who had a sick mother is going to be a victim of a drone strike? This document is only legal justification of the assassination, but I don't think it is beyond any government to have done this in the past. In fact it might be quite common especially in the spy game. I really don't see an issue with this, and I doubt that a country's leader just says kill X and it happens. I'm sure there is a more thorough process.
eqinf
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany100 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-06 06:33:22
February 06 2013 06:28 GMT
#26
well i m not a fan of "firststrike justice" or killing ppl with drones (actually i m against death penalty , violence leads to more violence)

but when u compare number of death caused by terrorism compared to assimilating with drones - some terrorists killed a week way more civilists kileld by terrorists ?
also the us is not the only western stat what acts like this (Israel best example)

so as a german, theese days i m obviously against any kind of death penalty , but our "moral impperialism" doesnt really appeal to the rest of the world

also ist kinda funny to see this discussion right now , where ist actually allready common knowledge that the us kills terrorists with drones for years
mvp for bonjwa
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1598 Posts
February 06 2013 06:32 GMT
#27
On February 06 2013 15:28 eqinf wrote:
well i m not a fan of "firststrike justice" or killing ppl with drones (actually i m against death penalty , violence leads to more violence)

but when u compare number of death caused by terrorism compared to assimilating with drones - 2 terrorists killed a week per ~ 50 civilians ?
also the us is not the only western stat what acts like this (Israel best example)

so as a german, theese days i m obviously against any kind of death penalty , but our "moral impperialism" doesnt really appeal to the rest of the world

also ist kinda funny to see this discussion right now , where ist actually allready common knowledge that the us kills terrorists with drones for years


That is the power of the US media. Brings up a topic and instantly the sheep follow. But please, let's not act like every government doesn't have dirt similar to this. Maybe they're not drone strikes, but bullets and poison accomplish the same goal.
TerribleNoobling
Profile Joined July 2010
Azerbaijan179 Posts
February 06 2013 06:40 GMT
#28
Luckily this power will never be abused. It's not like they would use it to murder a 16 year old boy or anything.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Aulaqi



don't worry though, because the Obama administration has an explanation. Apparently it's his fault for having an irresponsible father. A father who was himself murdered not for being a terrorist but rather for "provoking terrorism" i.e. the U.S. government didn't like what he had to say and they shot him for it.
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1598 Posts
February 06 2013 06:45 GMT
#29
On February 06 2013 15:40 TerribleNoobling wrote:
Luckily this power will never be abused. It's not like they would use it to murder a 16 year old boy or anything.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Aulaqi



don't worry though, because the Obama administration has an explanation. Apparently it's his fault for having an irresponsible father. A father who was himself murdered not for being a terrorist but rather for "provoking terrorism" i.e. the U.S. government didn't like what he had to say and they shot him for it.


You linked an article that is about an unintended target, that gives no real information about the intended target that. And from what I read from the sources in that wikipedia article is seems like the father was a bomb maker?
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-06 06:59:14
February 06 2013 06:58 GMT
#30
I remember a few months back a NYTimes story that the Justice Department had started sketching rules and regulations for drone strikes due to the worry that Romney could become President.

It's stunts like that that worry me the most. Nobody knows what the hell is going on, and nobody wants anyone else to do what they're doing. Some light on the matter would be nice.
TerribleNoobling
Profile Joined July 2010
Azerbaijan179 Posts
February 06 2013 07:24 GMT
#31
You linked an article that is about an unintended target, that gives no real information about the intended target that


I know this is a terrible and shocking truth I am going to impart upon you... but some times the government lies. They're not going just going to admit that they murdered a sixteen year old kid in cold blood. But two weeks after they murder his father, they accidentally murder him? And you think this is a coincidence?
sc4k
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom5454 Posts
February 06 2013 12:06 GMT
#32
It's mind-boggling that this is allowed. Completely flaunts the rule of law. But from someone I spoke to who was involved in the part of the UK military that deals with this type of thing, this isn't unique to the US...apparently it happens at the behest of the UK powers that be too. HOWEVER I would take anything he says with a pinch of salt as I think he likes to exaggerate.

It basically all comes down to the extreme reaction that the US had to 9/11. The USA PATRIOT act onwards...it's all just a big fuck you to the concept of the rule of law. What's really jarring is that US is SUPPOSED to be a country that's all about the rule of law. The amount of lawyers that were signers and drafters of the constitution...they all knew exactly how important the rule of law was, habeas corpus and all that jazz. And since 9/11 there has been this rapid erosion of the principles that were supposed to underpin the entire country. That, in many ways, were the point of the country being set up in the first place!!!
terranu1
Profile Joined October 2005
Romania53 Posts
February 06 2013 12:38 GMT
#33
It's "really surprising" that hits must be ordered whenever you know someone is guilty but the law system is so screwed and corrupt it takes too long to use it against the mob or terrorist or whatever.Even more "surprising" that this process must be kept secret and as far away from public knowledge.
Fact is,when you're surrounded by enemies, your democracy will only last as long as your determination and means are stronger than theirs in whatever they do against you, no exceptions.
LongLiveToTheBrood
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1598 Posts
February 06 2013 12:48 GMT
#34
On February 06 2013 16:24 TerribleNoobling wrote:
Show nested quote +
You linked an article that is about an unintended target, that gives no real information about the intended target that


I know this is a terrible and shocking truth I am going to impart upon you... but some times the government lies. They're not going just going to admit that they murdered a sixteen year old kid in cold blood. But two weeks after they murder his father, they accidentally murder him? And you think this is a coincidence?


You think they wasted a predator missile on a teenage boy or that they were actually attempting to kill Ibrahim al-Banna? I don't know, but what would they gain from this? They don't even use drone strike to kill individual Al-Qaeda grunts what makes this kid so special? Now for a serious question. Why was the kid who's father was a terrorist meeting with yet another terrorist on the day of the drone strike?
sc4k
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom5454 Posts
February 06 2013 12:53 GMT
#35
On February 06 2013 21:38 terranu1 wrote:
It's "really surprising" that hits must be ordered whenever you know someone is guilty but the law system is so screwed and corrupt it takes too long to use it against the mob or terrorist or whatever.Even more "surprising" that this process must be kept secret and as far away from public knowledge.
Fact is,when you're surrounded by enemies, your democracy will only last as long as your determination and means are stronger than theirs in whatever they do against you, no exceptions.


Due process is the cornerstone of society. Democracy depends on it being upheld vigilantly. The way you deal with your enemies in war is different from the way you deal with malfeasance of citizens in peace time so I understand it's complicated. But in general the point you are making is extremely dangerous and short-sighted. The right to be tried in a legal system, to face your accusations and make a defence is quintessential and has been for hundreds of years.
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-06 13:02:58
February 06 2013 13:02 GMT
#36
On February 06 2013 11:50 Jugan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2013 08:32 Shiragaku wrote:
Bush would invade the country with boots on the ground and capture the person, then usually end with torture. Obama just kills.

This is in complete violation with our Nuremberg values back in World War II where we put every single despicable Nazi war criminal on trial when the British and Russians just wanted to execute them on the spot. I do not think any nation had just a large scale assassination campaign before.


Yeah, it's obviously better to invade and destabilize an entire region at the cost of tens of thousands of lives, as opposed to precise, surgical strikes that have been proven to be effective at eliminating key terrorist leaders. And let's also conveniently forget that this type of thing has been going on for centuries, in different shapes and sizes.

2% of the people killed in those "precise" and "surgical" strikes are known militants according to a published study. I'm not sure if I should trust you or Obama's security adviser as far as effectiveness goes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/07/obama-adviser-criticises-drone-policy
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
February 06 2013 13:06 GMT
#37
On February 06 2013 15:45 NoobSkills wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2013 15:40 TerribleNoobling wrote:
Luckily this power will never be abused. It's not like they would use it to murder a 16 year old boy or anything.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Aulaqi



don't worry though, because the Obama administration has an explanation. Apparently it's his fault for having an irresponsible father. A father who was himself murdered not for being a terrorist but rather for "provoking terrorism" i.e. the U.S. government didn't like what he had to say and they shot him for it.


You linked an article that is about an unintended target, that gives no real information about the intended target that. And from what I read from the sources in that wikipedia article is seems like the father was a bomb maker?



The missile struck the 16 yr old kid and his friend when they were eating at a restaurant. He was definitely the intended target.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
February 06 2013 13:09 GMT
#38
as foreign it feels like americans think they are at any point better then an iraqi or just anyone else on the world
he should be allowed to kill his own people BEFORE be allowed to kill others ...

in fact i see more logical reasons he can kill his own country people then people from other countrys he has nothing to do with ....
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-06 13:12:07
February 06 2013 13:09 GMT
#39
On February 06 2013 16:24 TerribleNoobling wrote:
Show nested quote +
You linked an article that is about an unintended target, that gives no real information about the intended target that


I know this is a terrible and shocking truth I am going to impart upon you... but some times the government lies.
They're not going just going to admit that they murdered a sixteen year old kid in cold blood. But two weeks after they murder his father, they accidentally murder him? And you think this is a coincidence?

Please, I do not think I have met anyone (other than my buddy from Turkmenistan) who truly says anything good about their government. Most people here are not North Koreans, in fact, the mainstream thought right now is to hate the government.

Also, when Wikileaks happened, I do not think there was anyone who went "OMG!!! THE GOVERNMENT IS LYING?? MY LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE! WHO CAN WE TRUST ANYMORE?!?!?!"
Tanukki
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland579 Posts
February 06 2013 13:13 GMT
#40
Meh...the threat of a global terrorist network and the response to it have been way overblown. I don't think Al-Qaeda even exists. Anyway, as a result of that we have lots of heavily armed counter-terrorists scouring the world with the military, politicians and intelligence agencies hugely invested in these operations. They need to produce results, and if their investigations were open for scrutiny and they were denied the authority to even kill a few people, they couldn't produce any results at all, would be made fun of and would lose their jobs. That's probably what this is about.
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