On March 08 2013 09:56 Salazarz wrote: People need to stop assuming that NK is ruled by a bunch of crazies simply because they don't play by NATO's and UN's rules. They say stupid shit all the time, sure, and it's a despotic police state without a doubt - but the people in charge are not insane at all. They're actually pretty good at what they do (that being running a brutal police state, obviously). Also for reasons already stated in this thread, it makes perfect sense for them to be building nukes even if they aren't planning to actually attack anyone.
Oh I am sure most of us here agree with you all the way, but some people like to speculate what could happen in "what if" scenarios.
This is indeed just a bluff, its the only thing North Korea has to remain a relevant presence in the region. Without it they would easily be forgotten and easily pushed around.
On March 08 2013 09:56 Salazarz wrote: People need to stop assuming that NK is ruled by a bunch of crazies simply because they don't play by NATO's and UN's rules. They say stupid shit all the time, sure, and it's a despotic police state without a doubt - but the people in charge are not insane at all. They're actually pretty good at what they do (that being running a brutal police state, obviously). Also for reasons already stated in this thread, it makes perfect sense for them to be building nukes even if they aren't planning to actually attack anyone.
Oh I am sure most of us here agree with you all the way, but some people like to speculate what could happen in "what if" scenarios.
This is indeed just a bluff, its the only thing North Korea has to remain a relevant presence in the region. Without it they would easily be forgotten and easily pushed around.
How can you doubt that they are insane. I dont think anyone would argue that Stalin was insane, and he was doing the same thing, except he actually had a country that had the capacity to back his words. Now a year ago i would argue that they are insane, but might not be stupid, but that's out of the window now since they seem to not value their relationship with China or Russia either. The father mightve been an evil doctrine mastermind, but the son grew up on that doctrine, and he might very well believe his lies.
On March 08 2013 09:56 Salazarz wrote: People need to stop assuming that NK is ruled by a bunch of crazies simply because they don't play by NATO's and UN's rules. They say stupid shit all the time, sure, and it's a despotic police state without a doubt - but the people in charge are not insane at all. They're actually pretty good at what they do (that being running a brutal police state, obviously). Also for reasons already stated in this thread, it makes perfect sense for them to be building nukes even if they aren't planning to actually attack anyone.
Oh I am sure most of us here agree with you all the way, but some people like to speculate what could happen in "what if" scenarios.
This is indeed just a bluff, its the only thing North Korea has to remain a relevant presence in the region. Without it they would easily be forgotten and easily pushed around.
How can you doubt that they are insane. I dont think anyone would argue that Stalin was insane, and he was doing the same thing, except he actually had a country that had the capacity to back his words. Now a year ago i would argue that they are insane, but might not be stupid, but that's out of the window now since they seem to not value their relationship with China or Russia either. The father mightve been an evil doctrine mastermind, but the son grew up on that doctrine, and he might very well believe his lies.
After hearing about what Dennis Rodman had to say about his experience in NK, I don't think it's as bad as we think it is. We know as much about them as they know about us. They make anti-american videos just like americans make anti-nk videos and that's what the people of both countries usually see.
It just makes me feel worse for the North Korean people. They are completely brainwashed by their government. It's like 1984 and it's terrifying. Do I think that North Korea is ready to drop a nuke on the US? Probably not, but I don't see how this situation could be turned around. For everyone's sake, I hope that there is a way.
On March 08 2013 09:56 Salazarz wrote: People need to stop assuming that NK is ruled by a bunch of crazies simply because they don't play by NATO's and UN's rules. They say stupid shit all the time, sure, and it's a despotic police state without a doubt - but the people in charge are not insane at all. They're actually pretty good at what they do (that being running a brutal police state, obviously). Also for reasons already stated in this thread, it makes perfect sense for them to be building nukes even if they aren't planning to actually attack anyone.
Oh I am sure most of us here agree with you all the way, but some people like to speculate what could happen in "what if" scenarios.
This is indeed just a bluff, its the only thing North Korea has to remain a relevant presence in the region. Without it they would easily be forgotten and easily pushed around.
How can you doubt that they are insane. I dont think anyone would argue that Stalin was insane, and he was doing the same thing, except he actually had a country that had the capacity to back his words. Now a year ago i would argue that they are insane, but might not be stupid, but that's out of the window now since they seem to not value their relationship with China or Russia either. The father mightve been an evil doctrine mastermind, but the son grew up on that doctrine, and he might very well believe his lies.
After hearing about what Dennis Rodman had to say about his experience in NK, I don't think it's as bad as we think it is. We know as much about them as they know about us. They make anti-american videos just like americans make anti-nk videos and that's what the people of both countries usually see.
Try reading up on north Korea. Nothing to Envy is an amazing book and there's a lot of other independent/first hand material from refugees. Relying on Rodman's account is batshit retarded. It was a publicity stunt that saw the palatial life of the party members and little else. The levels of propaganda between NK and the west aren't even comparable. The NK party line during their 90's famine was they were stockpiling food to feed the starving South once reunified.
North Korea says it is scrapping all non-aggression pacts with South Korea, closing its hotline with Seoul and closing the crossing point between the two countries.
On March 08 2013 07:44 FabledIntegral wrote: This is completely false. Even fairly conservative estimates put the losses of life in the hundreds of thousands at minimum. There is no question that the North Korean army could completely overrun the South Korean and U.S. army on foot with their initial waves. Would we push back? Of course, but not until at least a few days later, minimum. In the meantime North Korea would blow South Korea to shit.
Their military parades are just for show. The missiles they display on the launching platforms are either mock-ups or old Russian / Pakistani rockets from the 70s. Let me tell you, if they claim to have 700 long range howitzers than they have in fact 300, from which only 200 are combat-ready but enough munition is only provided for 100...
I think you vastly underestimate Korea's military capabilities. Their missile technology is certainly not old Pakistani rockets. In fact Korea assisted Pakistan with ballistic missile technology in 1999 in exchange for nuclear technology. Now Pakistan is on it's way to develop ICBMs. Korea also exports arms to quite a few countries so I doubt they would be underarmed in their own country considering the constant threat they face.
On March 08 2013 09:56 Salazarz wrote: People need to stop assuming that NK is ruled by a bunch of crazies simply because they don't play by NATO's and UN's rules. They say stupid shit all the time, sure, and it's a despotic police state without a doubt - but the people in charge are not insane at all. They're actually pretty good at what they do (that being running a brutal police state, obviously). Also for reasons already stated in this thread, it makes perfect sense for them to be building nukes even if they aren't planning to actually attack anyone.
Oh I am sure most of us here agree with you all the way, but some people like to speculate what could happen in "what if" scenarios.
This is indeed just a bluff, its the only thing North Korea has to remain a relevant presence in the region. Without it they would easily be forgotten and easily pushed around.
How can you doubt that they are insane. I dont think anyone would argue that Stalin was insane, and he was doing the same thing, except he actually had a country that had the capacity to back his words. Now a year ago i would argue that they are insane, but might not be stupid, but that's out of the window now since they seem to not value their relationship with China or Russia either. The father mightve been an evil doctrine mastermind, but the son grew up on that doctrine, and he might very well believe his lies.
After hearing about what Dennis Rodman had to say about his experience in NK, I don't think it's as bad as we think it is. We know as much about them as they know about us. They make anti-american videos just like americans make anti-nk videos and that's what the people of both countries usually see.
Are you friggin' kidding me? You're going to listen to DENNIS RODMAN OF ALL PEOPLE?!
On March 08 2013 07:44 FabledIntegral wrote: This is completely false. Even fairly conservative estimates put the losses of life in the hundreds of thousands at minimum. There is no question that the North Korean army could completely overrun the South Korean and U.S. army on foot with their initial waves. Would we push back? Of course, but not until at least a few days later, minimum. In the meantime North Korea would blow South Korea to shit.
Their military parades are just for show. The missiles they display on the launching platforms are either mock-ups or old Russian / Pakistani rockets from the 70s. Let me tell you, if they claim to have 700 long range howitzers than they have in fact 300, from which only 200 are combat-ready but enough munition is only provided for 100...
I think you vastly underestimate Korea's military capabilities. Their missile technology is certainly not old Pakistani rockets. In fact Korea assisted Pakistan with ballistic missile technology in 1999 in exchange for nuclear technology. Now Pakistan is on it's way to develop ICBMs. Korea also exports arms to quite a few countries so I doubt they would be underarmed in their own country considering the constant threat they face.
N. Korean general: Pyongyang has nuke-tipped long-range missiles on standby - @YonhapNews South Korean Defense spokesman: "If DPRK attacks with nuclear weapons, the Kim Jong Un regime will become extinct' - @W7VOA
If north Korea goes nuclear south Korea will become a island, plain and simple. They get one punch, and if that doesn't knock out South Korea and the US they will kick of the shortest war ever fought on the Korean peninsula. I really hope kim jong unwise isn't feeling suicidal.
With all of the mixed messages coming out of North Korea, it makes me think that Kim Jong-Un is left in the dark about all of this stuff. He has experienced western culture and civilization and enjoys quite a bit of it, he recently had Dennis Rodman and a couple of the members of the Harlem Globetrodders and seemed to enjoy himself and even said that he is open to negotiations. While I know this is probably not true at all with these messages being broadcasted by the national station, its still an interesting thought with how wild the spectrum has been recently with Un's rise to power.
Did NK has just canceled the seize fire agreement with the South? Thats something pretty big I assume, since 1953 the only thing stands between NK and SK was the seize fire.
Still I don't see why NK would use it nuclear weapons or anything weapon at all to start a war. NK leaders just want to showcases the their people that they stand against SK and the US, nothing more. I believe it is the way to deal with NK's internal problems.
On March 08 2013 03:08 DavoS wrote: Mods working their butts off on this thread. Long story short, we can't really respond with military violence + Show Spoiler +
The big issue with dealing with all of North Korea's threats is that if they do in fact have nuclear warheads, they could launch one and have it hit Seoul in about 5 minutes. That's 14 million people. And they don't need a rocket that can go to space, they just need one strong enough to shoot a hundred miles or so. You can't evacuate a city Seoul's size that quickly, and for all the hype we have for our anti-nuclear defenses, none of them have been field tested. I don't think anyone wants to find out how well they do or don't work by using the population of South Korea as the guinea pig.
EDIT:
On March 07 2013 23:59 arChieSC2 wrote: good luck NK!
The mods have a very bizarre definition of what is anti-American (or anti-western or whatever) enough to dole out a warning.
Edit 2: the revenge: So Kim Jong-Il died not terribly long ago. And now North Korea is having another Nuclear launch. Proven evidence of... Ghosts. *ba-dum tish*
No, they haven't yet been able to miniaturise the nuclear device to the point where it can be used as a warhead. They'd have to put it on a truck or a boat and get it to Seoul that way. At the moment the risk to Seoul is from conventional munitions which will still level the place with colossal loss of life.
North korea's artillery tubes won't "level" seoul with "colossal" loss of life. The south korean military would hit back the moment they fire the first shell. It's hard to do a lot of damage when your own weapons have been blown by enemy artillery or airstrikes.
This is completely false. Even fairly conservative estimates put the losses of life in the hundreds of thousands at minimum. There is no question that the North Korean army could completely overrun the South Korean and U.S. army on foot with their initial waves. Would we push back? Of course, but not until at least a few days later, minimum. In the meantime North Korea would blow South Korea to shit.
If you don't know enough about what you are talking about, don't make statements about it, especially big claims like this one. Shelling seoul means that south korean airstrikes and counter artillery would destroy much of the north's ability to make artillery barrages. Also, south korean military intelligence and US satellites monitor north korea's military movements 24/7 and if it was really imminent that north korea was actually going to attack, it's highly likely that they would make preemptive strikes.
And "completely overrun south korea" and "blow south korea to shit"? Are you trolling? Or are you actually being serious? Do you think the south korean military is just going to sit there and let them pass? This isn't 1950. South korea has well-trained armies. It also has access to US military technologies thanks to its alliance with the US. The north korean military uses severely outdated equipment and most of its soldiers are underfed and do not train regularly because of money problems. The DMZ is heavily fortified and the regions north of seoul are lined by 20 foot concrete walls to prevent north korean tanks from rolling down. The entire south korean military exists and trains in the sole purpose of defending the country in the event of a north korean attack so I am completely clueless as to how you came to the conclusion that north korea is going to walk over south korea like you wrote.
On March 08 2013 12:46 a176 wrote: wow, seems like war is inevitable now
How so? Just sounds like testosterone and rhetorical drama to me. The panic and fear created seems much more effective and useful for them than any actual action.
EPT
