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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On April 29 2018 07:40 riotjune wrote: Let's give the peace prize to someone who threatened fire and fury. This goes to show violence is usually the answer. And that someone never had a peace talk before. Peace is happening because of North Korea's internal circumstances not because of Trump. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom10006 Posts
On April 29 2018 18:10 sc-darkness wrote: And that someone never had a peace talk before. Peace is happening because of North Korea's internal circumstances not because of Trump. Trump probably played some part in it, or he certainly will anyway. It doesn't really mean it happened because of him, but I would be surprised if he hadn't made some kind of offer. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On April 29 2018 18:10 sc-darkness wrote: And that someone never had a peace talk before. Peace is happening because of North Korea's internal circumstances not because of Trump. Hey, maybe Trump made the mountain that contains their nuclear project collapse, you never know. Without that event peace talks wouldn't be on the table. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On April 29 2018 19:05 r.Evo wrote: Hey, maybe Trump made the mountain that contains their nuclear project collapse, you never know. Without that event peace talks wouldn't be on the table. Yep. I think people give Trump too much credit. For example, when my country was communist (communism collapsed in 1989), the then dictator started talks with West Germany in about 1985. In specific, he was talking to Franz Josef Strauss, so dictators often have an idea when their ship is about to sink. We shouldn't focus on external reasons (Trump, Moon, etc) only. | ||
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
Also those Korean politicians praising Trump are probably just trying to win his favor, it never hurts to have a rich and powerful friend who can help you somewhere down the line. Hell hath no fury like Trump scorn'd, it would be pointless to piss him off if there's nothing in it for you. | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On April 29 2018 19:51 riotjune wrote: That's how you get ahead in the real world, by taking credit for other people's work or things you weren't involved in, if you can get away with it. Also those Korean politicians praising Trump are probably just trying to win his favor, it never hurts to have a rich and powerful friend who can help you somewhere down the line. Hell hath no fury like Trump scorn'd, it would be pointless to piss him off if there's nothing in it for you. Yeah, seems pretty effective as foreign affairs strategy in deal with the US (think of all the diplomats who will be out of the job when word gets around you just need to suck up to him). I guess the natural evolution is for world leaders to grass each other to Trump to cause disfavor. Nice news for peace in Korea. Well done Bisu. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 29 2018 19:51 riotjune wrote: That's how you get ahead in the real world, by taking credit for other people's work or things you weren't involved in, if you can get away with it. Also those Korean politicians praising Trump are probably just trying to win his favor, it never hurts to have a rich and powerful friend who can help you somewhere down the line. Hell hath no fury like Trump scorn'd, it would be pointless to piss him off if there's nothing in it for you. Yeah, whether they give Trump undue credit or not, they are getting re-elected no matter what. Moon's approval rating is likely going to be through the roof. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On April 29 2018 18:10 sc-darkness wrote: And that someone never had a peace talk before. Peace is happening because of North Korea's internal circumstances not because of Trump. "South Korea credits Trump." https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/26/world/korea-summit-kang-kyung-wha-amanpour-intl/index.html | ||
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Miragee
8709 Posts
On April 30 2018 01:47 SK.Testie wrote: "South Korea credits Trump." https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/26/world/korea-summit-kang-kyung-wha-amanpour-intl/index.html This has been said in this thread over and over before: World leader have figured out that it's a good strategy to praise Trump, especially in public, to get what they want. Trump still needs to design a peace treaty if it should come to that so it's smart to openly give him credit even though he did nothing or his contribution was minuscule/not deliberate. I don't really get why there is so much Trump-talk here anyways. By now it's seems like he is this religious leader with a cult-following. Everything happening in the world is tied to Trump. Grandma 3 streets further bakes good break? Must be because of Trump. You don't like her bread? You must hate Trump. What the fuck? It's also that you can't go issue for issue in his case. You either must be for him or against him. He wants out of Syria? Must be Putin's pupped. He bombed Syria? Well, that wasn't hard enough, he didn't kill people, must be Putin's puppet. Could people just stop giving him credit/blaming him for everything that is happening in the world and derail the discussion to only revolve around him instead of the actual issue that should be discussed? | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On April 29 2018 20:01 Deleuze wrote: Yeah, seems pretty effective as foreign affairs strategy in deal with the US (think of all the diplomats who will be out of the job when word gets around you just need to suck up to him). I guess the natural evolution is for world leaders to grass each other to Trump to cause disfavor. Nice news for peace in Korea. Well done Bisu. That's going to cost them in the long-term. If you feed a pig more than it deserves, it will still be a pig if not a bigger one. :D I expect this strategy to fail because Trump will be even more self-confident and his self confidence is too much right now. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
Let him do the sword dance, touch the orb, talk about how he is the greatest, with the biggest crowds and hands and you are his best friend. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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mozoku
United States708 Posts
Likewise, you guys are already trying to give Moon credit for peace talks that haven't taken place with absolutely nothing but optimistic hope that KJU will either abide by the terms or make realistic demands. Let's save the talk about "who gets credit" until we actually see some results. Which, btw, isn't something the talks will determine, but something we will know in 10, 20, 30, or more years. If KJU is sincere and honest here, he would be the exception rather than the norm among his peers (Assad, Putin, the CCP, previous Kim rulers, etc.). The base rate for sincerity and honesty is low here. Kim should have totake real, transparent, and sustained steps to demonstrate his sincerity before the US makes any concessions. If he's actually sincere, he shouldn't be in a hurry anyway right? | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On April 30 2018 06:01 mozoku wrote: Obama earned his Nobel Peace Prize when he "made Assad hand over his chemical weapons without a single shot." Assad's use of chemical weapons was a pretty big issue in 2009 when Obama won it, wasn't it? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46490 Posts
On April 30 2018 02:42 sc-darkness wrote: That's going to cost them in the long-term. If you feed a pig more than it deserves, it will still be a pig if not a bigger one. :D I expect this strategy to fail because Trump will be even more self-confident and his self confidence is too much right now. Unfortunately, Trump supporters will think that he solved the Korean conflict and vote him in for a second term. The idea that he did anything helpful is indeed laughable; he didn't even appoint the proper diplomats for the region, yet some people think that him calling KJU names solved the Korean conflict. Sigh. | ||
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mozoku
United States708 Posts
On April 30 2018 06:38 LegalLord wrote: Assad's use of chemical weapons was a pretty big issue in 2009 when Obama won it, wasn't it? Massive issue in 2009. (In case it's not clear to anyone, my quote there was 100% facetious. And I'm in agreement with LL. If Obama won the award in 2009, you could justify giving it to almost literally anyone that isn't an outright murder. It was an insult to the stature of the award.) | ||
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Miragee
8709 Posts
On April 30 2018 07:58 mozoku wrote: Massive issue in 2009. (In case it's not clear to anyone, my quote there was 100% facetious. And I'm in agreement with LL. If Obama won the award in 2009, you could justify giving it to almost literally anyone that isn't an outright murder. It was an insult to the stature of the award.) Obama didn't deserve it at all. When I first heard it I thought it was a joke. What most people here are arguing (I think) is that this doesn't mean Trump deserves one. Well. The price is a joke anyways so what are we even arguing about. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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mozoku
United States708 Posts
At the risk of being repetitive, let's not let unjustified and unbridled optimism distract us from making realistic and clear-headed decisions. | ||
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