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On February 18 2006 12:45 miNi wrote:
...People who fail to attend SNU come to America and get full academic scholarships to Harvard.
I say it again, people that fail SNU get scholarships to Harvard and most other Ivy League colleges...
There is no such thing as merit-based scholarship in the Ivy league. All scholarships are need-based, and it is extremely difficult for international students to get financial aid. So your friends that come here are coming at a price.
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On February 18 2006 11:13 sandraIShot wrote:
education gives you freedom. THe freedom to better understand the issues surrouding you and how to deal with them and obviously monetaraly wise, its helps to not have to struggle and be stressed for the your future and your beloved ones'.
I believe that money gives you freedom more than education is. While getting Straight A's and going to Harvard may get you a good job, it isn't necessary if thats not your thing. Its more about choosing the college thats right for you, so you can learn the skills you need. You don't need to get straight a's and go to harvard to learn how to do real estate or how to buy stocks, or start your own business. But, as long as you take the proper classes to learn what you need to know, you can be successful in life.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Ultimately, in university/college everyone needs some kind of balance between social life and their grades. What's a good balance? I can't say. I can tell you that different amounts of study time will be required at different points in the term, as the workload varies.
If I had to give figures, I'd say that 40-60 hours per week (averaged over the whole term) is a good range. That's probably the kinds of hours you'll be working (+transportation to/from work) in the job world. I'm not sure how many hours per week I spend, myself. It probably varies between 20-30 for the majority of the term, 60ish during midterms, and 20-60 during exams, depending on how good/bad my exam schedule is. And for me, that's good enough for Honour List grades.
One thing I'd like to add is that learning is a skill as well. If you know how to learn the material efficiently, then you will need to spend a LOT less time to achieve the same marks. My advice: pay full attention in class and avoid copying all of the prof's notes if possible. Instead of copying notes, use your class time to think about and to understand the material you're learning. If you spend the whole class copying notes, you will learn almost nothing from that time, and you will have to spend an extra hour after class reading your notes and doing all the learning you were supposed to do during class, or else you will fall behind. If there are no (good) notes available for a class, then form groups with other people and have only one person take notes every class, then the rest can get photocopies of them. I cannot possibly emphasize how detrimental it is to spend the entire class copying notes, and how much smarter you will feel once you start using your class time to learn the material rather than to write it down.
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that's really good advice bill
especially in technical subjects it is extremely easy to just zone out and copy what the professor says verbatim instead of worrying about understanding what exactly all the symbols and operations mean and imply
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Just go to school, get good grades, and go to college so we don't have any more dumbasses in the world.
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in the words of the great thinker, ICE CUBE.. READ FOR YOUR MIND.. FOOL!
Dude.. its all about discipline, responsibility and motivation and WANT.. the WANT to do better
you decide what you want.
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There is true education, and theres fake education.
When one understands something, one memorizes it. When the subjects actually interesting one, one keeps it in memory. = true
One wants to get rich & big house & good sex etc. and one decides to swot everything swottable for tests and forgets it after them = fake
not that fake education doesnt make one happy in results. not that only the true one makes out the "best" people in the world. just fact is that one doesnt get really "educated" from the fake one.
in our society capitalism has such a great materialistic influence that so many people regard the latter one as the official version. anyway I refuse to consider it as an education.
P.S. as u mentioned fake education is far more popular in asian contries. try to enjoy what u cant avoid.
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On February 18 2006 12:12 Bill307 wrote:In general, higher education gives you: o Better long-term friends: higher education (higher intelligence plus higher discipline) correlates with personalities that are more mature, more trustworthy, less self-centred, less violent, more courteous, more considerate of others, higher morals, more likely to help you out of a jam, etc. o Better long-term relationships: they won't be as hot or as slutty, but they'll be more likely to have the traits necessary for a stable long-term relationship (mainly the stuff listed for better long-term friends). Plus you'll have more money and your competition will also be less good-looking and less self-confident, giving you better odds  . o Better personality yourself: better friends have a better influence on your own personality, improving it rather than degrading it. o Better opportunities to learn: if you enjoy learning about anything, you can learn even more about it with a higher education. So basically, if you're the kind of person who prefers the types of people you'll meet in university/college, then having a higher education will improve pretty much every aspect of your life. And by those "types of people", I'm not referring to the small minority who are cocky grade-whores. I mean friends who tend to have those positive attributes I listed above, moreso than the average person.
What a load of shit. I can't believe that this feces has spewed forth from someone i respect. Infact, it bothers me much more so that this shit is inside your head.
Do you honestly believe that university gives u better friends, better relationships, and makes your personality better?
Honestly Bill, im appalled.
I typically have a hard time befriending univeristy students. This may be caused by a multitude of factors, but the ones that come to mind: These people are boring. These people are arrogant. These people bring prejudice to a brand new level.
One of my best friends, Spencer, is a 4th year Engineering student. He's awesome. We connect on so many levels. We both have a passion for philosophy, our logic is the same, and probably the most beuatiful aspect to the pair that makes us the pair that we are is our extreme differences. I don't have a problem holding a conversation with him. Infact, when he stumbles across a piece of knowledge that he finds interesting, he explains it once, and i get it. And when i so tumble against an equally interesting piece of life that i need to explain to him, i also need only do it once. He has 4 years of university behind him. I'm a highschool dropout.
A little bit about me: I dropped out of highschool for the first time in grade 9. There were many reasons, but the most important would be: i was depressed. i have no patience for incompetant authority (which is nearly every teacher i've ever had). i was sick of my grades suffering because i refused to do homework that served no other purpose than to waste my time (i didn't do homework but still achieved 95%+ on all tests). And admittably, i am a lazy person. So needless to say, i dropped out. I decided to take up correspondance instead. This year was an excellent learning experience for me. The only relevant lesson to this post would be: at that time in my life, correspondance was a bad idea. So the next year, i decided i would try again. I approached my would-be grade10 year/school, and i decided to have a conferance with my would-be english teacher, the principal, and vice principal. I told them that i had not officially completed any of those courses of grade 9, but that i had indeed learned the material, and could move on to the next level. After an interview, a few tests, and an agreement that if i couldn't handle the course load i'd investigate other opportunities, i skipped grade 9.
After 2 months, i was sick of school. I was excelling in all of my classes, but the teachers who were incompetant, along with the so called neccessity of homework to 'learn', i called bullshit and dropped out of school for the second time.
The next year, i again felt that i knew the material needed to go on to the next grade. So after a similar meeting/interview/tests/agreements, i skipped 10 as well.
Grade 11 came around, and this year i happened to get in some classes with a few good teachers, and more importantly, i was in classes with some good friends. First semester passed by, and i had achieved a few A's, some B's, and a few C's, all with very poor attendance. But the important part is, i didn't drop out. And still did reasonably well despite not attending school for the good part of the previous 2 years. 2nd semester came around and my attendance got even worse. However, by the skin of my teeth, i managed to not get kicked out or drop out, and, while going into my math11 exam with 46% in class, and 73 of 90 classes missed, i passed my exam with 89%. I didn't finish the last 2 pages of the exam due to a lack of time caused by the fact that i was trying to teach myself some of the material in the exam while writing it.
Grade 12 did not go as smoothly as Grade 11. After 3 months or so, (all of my friends were a year older than me, and so graduated the year before), i was alone, unhappy with most of my teachers, extremely bored/unchallenged, depressed, and the heaviest i've ever been at 290 lbs. So again, needless to say, i'd had enough and dropped out of school for the 3rd time. I tried to get my shit together by the next semester, and tried to attend once again, but alas, to no avail, it wasn't working out for me. And i dropped out for the fourth time.
The next year rolled on in, and i decided to give my grade 12 year yet another try. Throughout all of my dropping out of school, i had still managed to pass every required course, except for English 12, and short (of course) some 40 odd credits to graduate. So i took English12, and 3 other bullshit courses in first semester. I don't think i've ever had better attendance. I went to school on time, everyday. For the first time in my life, i actually committed myself to the uselessness of homework, and got it done. And i had 90% or higher in all of my classes. I woke up one morning, and decided that school sucks, and dropped out for the 5th time. I haven't been back.
In the meantime, i've done construction for a living making $25/hour. I've spent time with the people in my life that i love the most. I've started my book on Sexuality, something that all those years out of school took a great majority of my time thinking about. I've become somewhat of a councilor for friends, family, and even my gaming communities. I've had the time of my life, and most imporantly i'm happy.
I plan on attending college next semester, though which courses i'm still deciding. I love math. I am good at and passionate about English. Pyschology and Philosophy are gonna be on my course load whether i go into those fields or not. I am proud about where i've been, and excited about where i am going. School has only been a piece of my life. Happiness, awareness, and the quest for knowledge have been the most important pursuits of my life (and in my opinion should be in everyones life) and i have been wise enough to know that they have nothing to do with 'education'.
The worst part, is all of my attempts to befriend university students, i've stumbled upon brain-washed arrogant losers that don't know any of that. They think that Engineering (the course my friend Spencer is enrolled in) will somehow make them meet good, interesting people. They think that they will get married and have a loving family without ever bothering to denote what that really means. They stumble on following what others have always told them is important to be happy. And i can't stand most of them. I mean, after all, i'm just a highschool dropout who hardly deserves a second glance.
edit - i didn't mention that it is my dream to be a writer. I've gone down from that 290 lbs to 180. And the way i finally rid myself of depression was realizing i just had to set myself free from the ideologies of society.
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i realize the above post is a long one, but if this topic interests you, i suggest you take those extra 45 seconds to read it.
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On February 18 2006 14:38 Teroru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2006 12:12 Bill307 wrote:In general, higher education gives you: o Better long-term friends: higher education (higher intelligence plus higher discipline) correlates with personalities that are more mature, more trustworthy, less self-centred, less violent, more courteous, more considerate of others, higher morals, more likely to help you out of a jam, etc. o Better long-term relationships: they won't be as hot or as slutty, but they'll be more likely to have the traits necessary for a stable long-term relationship (mainly the stuff listed for better long-term friends). Plus you'll have more money and your competition will also be less good-looking and less self-confident, giving you better odds . o Better personality yourself: better friends have a better influence on your own personality, improving it rather than degrading it. o Better opportunities to learn: if you enjoy learning about anything, you can learn even more about it with a higher education. So basically, if you're the kind of person who prefers the types of people you'll meet in university/college, then having a higher education will improve pretty much every aspect of your life. And by those "types of people", I'm not referring to the small minority who are cocky grade-whores. I mean friends who tend to have those positive attributes I listed above, moreso than the average person. What a load of shit. I can't believe that this feces has spewed forth from someone i respect. Infact, it bothers me much more so that this shit is inside your head. Do you honestly believe that university gives u better friends, better relationships, and makes your personality better? Honestly Bill, im appalled. I typically have a hard time befriending univeristy students. This may be caused by a multitude of factors, but the ones that come to mind: These people are boring. These people are arrogant. These people bring prejudice to a brand new level. One of my best friends, Spencer, is a 4th year Engineering student. He's awesome. We connect on so many levels. We both have a passion for philosophy, our logic is the same, and probably the most beuatiful aspect to the pair that makes us the pair that we are is our extreme differences. I don't have a problem holding a conversation with him. Infact, when he stumbles across a piece of knowledge that he finds interesting, he explains it once, and i get it. And when i so tumble against an equally interesting piece of life that i need to explain to him, i also need only do it once. He has 4 years of university behind him. I'm a highschool dropout. A little bit about me: I dropped out of highschool for the first time in grade 9. There were many reasons, but the most important would be: i was depressed. i have no patience for incompetant authority (which is nearly every teacher i've ever had). i was sick of my grades suffering because i refused to do homework that served no other purpose than to waste my time (i didn't do homework but still achieved 95%+ on all tests). And admittably, i am a lazy person. So needless to say, i dropped out. I decided to take up correspondance instead. This year was an excellent learning experience for me. The only relevant lesson to this post would be: at that time in my life, correspondance was a bad idea. So the next year, i decided i would try again. I approached my would-be grade10 year/school, and i decided to have a conferance with my would-be english teacher, the principal, and vice principal. I told them that i had not officially completed any of those courses of grade 9, but that i had indeed learned the material, and could move on to the next level. After an interview, a few tests, and an agreement that if i couldn't handle the course load i'd investigate other opportunities, i skipped grade 9. After 2 months, i was sick of school. I was excelling in all of my classes, but the teachers who were incompetant, along with the so called neccessity of homework to 'learn', i called bullshit and dropped out of school for the second time. The next year, i again felt that i knew the material needed to go on to the next grade. So after a similar meeting/interview/tests/agreements, i skipped 10 as well. Grade 11 came around, and this year i happened to get in some classes with a few good teachers, and more importantly, i was in classes with some good friends. First semester passed by, and i had achieved a few A's, some B's, and a few C's, all with very poor attendance. But the important part is, i didn't drop out. And still did reasonably well despite not attending school for the good part of the previous 2 years. 2nd semester came around and my attendance got even worse. However, by the skin of my teeth, i managed to not get kicked out or drop out, and, while going into my math11 exam with 46% in class, and 73 of 90 classes missed, i passed my exam with 89%. I didn't finish the last 2 pages of the exam due to a lack of time caused by the fact that i was trying to teach myself some of the material in the exam while writing it. Grade 12 did not go as smoothly as Grade 11. After 3 months or so, (all of my friends were a year older than me, and so graduated the year before), i was alone, unhappy with most of my teachers, extremely bored/unchallenged, depressed, and the heaviest i've ever been at 290 lbs. So again, needless to say, i'd had enough and dropped out of school for the 3rd time. I tried to get my shit together by the next semester, and tried to attend once again, but alas, to no avail, it wasn't working out for me. And i dropped out for the fourth time. The next year rolled on in, and i decided to give my grade 12 year yet another try. Throughout all of my dropping out of school, i had still managed to pass every required course, except for English 12, and short (of course) some 40 odd credits to graduate. So i took English12, and 3 other bullshit courses in first semester. I don't think i've ever had better attendance. I went to school on time, everyday. For the first time in my life, i actually committed myself to the uselessness of homework, and got it done. And i had 90% or higher in all of my classes. I woke up one morning, and decided that school sucks, and dropped out for the 5th time. I haven't been back. In the meantime, i've done construction for a living making $25/hour. I've spent time with the people in my life that i love the most. I've started my book on Sexuality, something that all those years out of school took a great majority of my time thinking about. I've become somewhat of a councilor for friends, family, and even my gaming communities. I've had the time of my life, and most imporantly i'm happy. I plan on attending college next semester, though which courses i'm still deciding. I love math. I am good at and passionate about English. Pyschology and Philosophy are gonna be on my course load whether i go into those fields or not. I am proud about where i've been, and excited about where i am going. School has only been a piece of my life. Happiness, awareness, and the quest for knowledge have been the most important pursuits of my life (and in my opinion should be in everyones life) and i have been wise enough to know that they have nothing to do with 'education'. The worst part, is all of my attempts to befriend university students, i've stumbled upon brain-washed arrogant losers that don't know any of that. They think that Engineering (the course my friend Spencer is enrolled in) will somehow make them meet good, interesting people. They think that they will get married and have a loving family without ever bothering to denote what that really means. They stumble on following what others have always told them is important to be happy. And i can't stand most of them. I mean, after all, i'm just a highschool dropout who hardly deserves a second glance. edit - i didn't mention that it is my dream to be a writer. I've gone down from that 290 lbs to 180. And the way i finally rid myself of depression was realizing i just had to set myself free from the ideologies of society.
Generally speaking people that go to college will develop a larger horizon, will understand their society and its issues better, this not falling to propaganda and manipulation. In this sense, education is very helpful to society and what Bill has said, i believe to be partly true. Education will help you develop ur understanding, ur moral values, ur respect for society and its institutions. Generally speaking you elevate yourself to another level. It doesnt however mean that by definition any college graduate is a more evolved being, it very much happens that aside their engeeninrg knowledge they are complete morons. Just as its equally possible to find very smart self educated high school dropouts. There is no clear rule, but lets say generally speaking a college graduate will have a more evolved conversation to say the least. I have a hard time having a normal and interesting conversation with dropouts, we do not have the same interests and passion. And the reason for that is not his dropping out, some exceptionnal people are very cultivated whithout any sort of college, they are very few
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On February 18 2006 14:59 sandraIShot wrote:
Generally speaking people that go to college will develop a larger horizon, will understand their society and its issues better, this not falling to propaganda and manipulation. In this sense, education is very helpful to society and what Bill has said, i believe to be partly true. Education will help you develop ur understanding, ur moral values, ur respect for society and its institutions. Generally speaking you elevate yourself to another level. It doesnt however mean that by definition any college graduate is a more evolved being, it very much happens that aside their engeeninrg knowledge they are complete morons. Just as its equally possible to find very smart self educated high school dropouts. There is no clear rule, but lets say generally speaking a college graduate will have a more evolved conversation to say the least. I have a hard time having a normal and interesting conversation with dropouts, we do not have the same interests and passion. And the reason for that is not his dropping out, some exceptionnal people are very cultivated whithout any sort of college, they are very few
how does university develope moral values? I wasn't saying that highschool dropouts are great and wonderful and should be sought out by your everyday Univsersity student. My point was that people are what they make of themselves. I have many more friends who are not in university. I am the only member of my 'circle' of friends that has not graduated. I personally have not been impressed with the moral standard of the 'general' college/university student. I also have not met many university students whose 'understanding' stretches beyond what they study for 8 hours a day. And since most of them hold disdain towards anyone who hasn't subjected themselves to the rigor that is university, their 'respect' for society is next to none. Since the majority of society resides in the middle class, which is who they hold in contempt, i'd say that's fairly obvious.
So before i tell you that you should investigate what 'moral values' are, how about you define them for me first before i make myself look like an asshole.
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to someone who said that "education gives you freedom", sometimes it is quite the contrary. Most people cannot devote their educational resources to more than one particular field of study in a lifetime. Once this has been accomplished, they are pretty much bound and stuck to that field, whether they like it or not. It is the only thing they are good at, the only thing they can get paid for, the only thing that allows them to do the other menial things in their lives. A few of my friends are cursing their college majors and what it has gotten them, a life of sitting behind a desk staring at a computer screen all day drawing architectural shit to standards in a horrible wireframe display for 10 hours a day. They are slowly becomming more and more unhealthy, and seemingly more and more stressed. They sit at their desks from sun up to sun down. Man was not meant to live this way. What does it get them? A house, a car, and money to do whatever they want on the weekends, which is only 2 days of bliss from 5 days of hell.
Point is, whatever you decide to educate yourself on, make it something you personally enjoy doing. The best thing in life you can do is find a way to make money doing what you love, or at least like.
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
If not anything, I would work to boost your high 80's into low 90's. It' s a big differnece b/w a B adn an A for college apps. And sadly, getting inot a good college gives you so many more opportunities, like it or not.
I attend one of the top universities in my country (which i wont mention which), but there are so many dumbasses, and yet i KNOW these guys are goign to score great jobs. They may not have the best intelligence, etc, but htey are smart in that they know how to get what they want...
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education = money
simple as that
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On February 18 2006 11:10 overu1 wrote:
but the truth is that education=money=good life quality=happy
thats not entirely true
but again
On February 18 2006 11:06 LegendaryDreams wrote:
If the only reason to learn is to learn more, life isn\'t worth living.
dont say this
humanity is only superior because of its ability to process information at superior levels than any animal. (of course our social skills are somewhat part of this ability)
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There're different critical standards for different periods of life. GPA is extremely important in the early stage of life. Before you're 20 the world's expectation on you is rather simple, as long as you produce good grades everyone opens doors for you. And good grades alone can land you a golden job, which needs more and more complicated criteria to earn as you get older in life.
There's of course the continuous debate of GPA vs Social skills. but imo you don't need to develop any sophisticated social skills before you get out of college; just dont' hesitate to help other ppl around you then you'll be fine.
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On February 18 2006 16:40 YoiChiBow wrote:
education = money
simple as that
Ignorant fucktard.
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On February 18 2006 19:49 decafchicken wrote:Ignorant fucktard.
Statistcally he is right, and given that most people go to school for the sole purpose of maximizing there income, it is not a ridiculous statement. Unfortunately our culture(western) has so closely linked education with an 'education system' that many people don't seem to believe you can obtain an education without dishing out loads of money for 'higher education'. I know many people go to school just to get there ticket stamped so to speak, and move on, which really does not place any value on the actual education other than as a sell-able tool. Education as personal development is like most things in the sense that the more you have of it, the less you value it and vise versa. Grandeur and elitist statements that education is going to give you happiness and better relationships seem to over value education and show a serious lack of understanding for its worth.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
I guess Mora and I have simply had totally-opposite experiences in life. Ultimately we were best-treated by the people who were most similar to us and dealt shit from the people who were least like us.
(I got dealt some shit in high school and lots in elementary school, but I'm not going to take that into consideration because I know that we were all pretty dumb back then and it's not fair to hold people to things they did when they were that young, nor to assume that they stayed that way after graduating.)
It makes sense that high grades and egotism are correlated. I have to admit I didn't think of that. I can't recall meeting a single individual here who came off as an arrogant, self-centred person. I've heard stories about people like that being in the "elite" Software Engineering program, e.g. one student was appalled that one of our math teachers didn't know who he was (apparently he won some contest or something). But from my perspective they've always been the small minority. Almost every person I've met has been less concerned about their grades than I am, and they never talk down to or condescend other people.
On the other hand, because of my high grades they would never treat me like that anyway, plus I meet most people through my friends, which makes it very unlikely that they'd be so blatantly arrogant. So who knows. I asked a couple of other people to see if they had noticed any students who were arrogant, but not incidents stood out to them.
In any case, I still think that people who enter post-secondary studies generally make better friends.
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EPT
