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I need motivation.
I\'m just the average student in the school setting (difference from average person). My grades are not spectacular, however, they are good grades (high 80s average). On that note, I do excel in many extracurriculars.
Surely we all know that education can make one more potentially developed; however, this also can be argued. Is it just merely a trend that less and less people are dropping out of high school and less college / university student are getting their masters and phds degrees?
This dosen\'t mean going beyond high school is frowned upon. I just believe that sometimes the idea of overachieving or \"doing your best\" is overemphasized. If I look at some of my collegues, there are ones that I have a certain loathe towards: their life is based upon their grades. These people CRY over things like getting an 95% instead of their usually 99% or 100%. They are very selfish and insecure about their marks: wishing that they\'ll always be that #1 student and no one can exceed them, it\'s just absolutely rediculous.
Should we really sacrifice our time, hobbies, friends, relations, and lives to achieve that 2400 SAT mark or to hit that 95%+ average just for the university applications? If you look at all of those students with high GPAs, ask them what hobbies they have or what else they are good at. Most of the time, it\'s nothing but studying or school. Is it really worth it?
Take China, South Korea, and Japan for an example. They have their students work until midnight non-stop just on homework. Study their asses off when their a test. And for their final exam (qualifying for universities) students study non-stop for days and weeks. Some commit suicide because of the pressure, others do poorly and must take it again. I hate it when tests are so heavily emphasized like that, because it rarely shows the true intelligence of a student. Anyone can prepare for a long period of time for something and heavily increase the results, for tests or things other than tests. It really sucks too because when they emphasize that stuff so heavily, the students are either forced to take it that seriously, or risk looking much less intelligent than they might be - by being anti-social and more interest in school than anything else.
I don\'t believe in school controlling life. I just don\'t believe in life being spent devoted to school. If the only reason to learn is to learn more, life isn\'t worth living. \"Live life to the fullest\" Are you really doing that if your life is based upon studying? Stuff like that leaves so little room to enjoy life.
Why to we eat? To survive. Why do we live? To replicate. Why do we cry? To show our emotions. So why do we study then?
Discuss, future bright minds.
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teenagers never like to study but as they grow older they gonna know the importance or education, but the truth is that education=money=good life quality=happy
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education gives you freedom. THe freedom to better understand the issues surrouding you and how to deal with them and obviously monetaraly wise, its helps to not have to struggle and be stressed for the your future and your beloved ones'.
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The best reason to go on? Because the real world is tough, and not having a proper education and not being qualified for a decent job will have you moving boxes, serving food, or selling clothing for the rest of your life.
On top of that, you really don't realize how good you have it at school. Yes you have homework, tests, quizzes, etc - but you also get days off for every holiday known to man, a couple weeks at christmas, and 3 months during the summer. People in the working world? Almost none of that unless you happen to work for the government. I have friends who were still in college complaining about how short winter break was. During the MONTH that they had off, I received 2 non-sequential days off of work this year.
Trust me, wihle steady paychecks and being able to afford a lot of cool stuff is very rewarding and fun, I still wish I was in school, able to party every night and get huge vacations.
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Meh, our current education system blows. It needs to be severely revamped.
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Good reasoning, draeger. But tell me, what\'s the difference between going to a top notch university - Harvard or to a good one - UoT (University of Toronto). Would you enjoy competing with all of those geniouses if you made it in?
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Have fun with a 20K salary at age 40, sir.
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LegendaryDreams: You see the discrepancy because your friends have set very high standards for themselves and you admit that you have no standards. It is my opinion that US society in general is not educated. Take yourself for example, "why is edu. so important" , "its just a trend." Education is freedom my friend, and I wouldn't envy someone who wants that. I talk of freedom in the sense that someone with an education has many more options on his or her line of work.(haha i just realized that sandralshot used freedom... I originally used power) With education comes prestige, and power. People that have obtained an education have more validity when they express opinions and are better able to come up with sound arguments and points of view. Now getting back to the importance of edu.: My experience in high shcool was rather dreary partly because I was surrounded by immature,ignorant, and plainly dumb people. It seemed to me that nobody cared about their grades or their future and I admit it was very depressing to be in a position to observe such behavior. I graduated in the first quarter of my class, however I am not financially well off as many others are so I was forced to leave the university I attended for a year(Money wasn't the sole issue of my early departure there was also a family emergency) Take my mom for example, she did not finish college and now she is a secretary at a community college and makes a dismal salary. Since I live in the US you might say there is a lot of money for a young Hispanic male who made good grades in high school and now wants to go to college. From my experience, the idea the minorities get butt loads of money is false. despite this fact, I still persevere to get through college because I know there is light at the end of the tunnel. I want to have a decent career and be successful later in life. Really you do not want to give up all you hobbies, friends etc,,, well I say it is a fine balance. Either you can have 100%no life and just focus on school, make lots of money later, drive a pimp car, big house etc... I am not saying that this is not possible unless you you devote 100% to school, but I believe you get what you put in. You care say about 30% effort into school. You do not make the grades, you cannot get into college, or you are in college and you graduate very low in your class: It is harder to find a job let alone a career. Now I know there are exceptions, some people are blessed enough to find a good career anyway and still others are just "given" the job or career because who they know or who their parents know but ehh thats life i guess?
In closing, I say you can care about school, get an education that opens many doors for you, or you can say its just a trendy thing etc... what ever your excuse may be and you can work at McDonalds for the rest of your life. (No disrespect to anyone in the fast food business, I myself have worked at a fast food joint, as someone put it to me "you gotta do what you gotta do"
p.s. Sorry if this post was incoherent, I did not really take the time to lay out my thoughts and I am not so sure that I typed in an effective manner that would have any impact on you whatsoever.
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On February 18 2006 11:13 sandraIShot wrote:
education gives you freedom. THe freedom to better understand the issues surrouding you and how to deal with them and obviously monetaraly wise, its helps to not have to struggle and be stressed for the your future and your beloved ones'.
I think this really hits it.
Also, it's important to note that being educated and getting the flawless GPA are two very different things. As you said, that kind of achievement usually requires an enormous amount of work, because no matter how smart you are it's really easy to screw up the important test or two. As such, numbers are often a highly inadequate measure of education. Instead, colleges are probably going to be looking for a challenging courseload, decent GPA, higher-end standardized test scores (which I don't necessarily disagree with - while they're certainly not a great measure of ability I don't know many intelligent people who've bombed them), and interesting extracurriculars.
So no, I don't really think it's worth it to put in that kind of work, but as I said, that kind of work is often completely irrelevant to becoming educated, which I do think is very important.
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After rereading yor orignal post, I think you are doing pretty "ok" for yourself. Your friends may take it to the extreme but when it is all said and done, they will have set themselves up to be cream of the crop as far as their graduating class is concerned. Employers want the best and will higher the most qualified people for the job, and yes all other things equal, grades can determine that, hell grades can determine whether they look at you to begin with. You claim to have an average of high 80's, well I challenge you to go the extra 3 or 4 points to get the A. It will not take that much more effort, you are nearly there and believe me, being a good student in high school really helps in college. Learning how to study is something that is a necesity for college. College is primarily self motivated study and usually those who want to succeede, will. There are many avenues one can persue if he or she is lacking in anthing: IE Tutor labs, study groups, talk to professor. Also, college is not for everyone, and not everyone can go to college, that is a false mantra, however I do believe that anyone who wants an education should be able to obtain one. It is my belief here where I get a little communitarian in the sense that Society should pay for those who want to better themselves (College) In return the college graduates become productive members of society.
Ahh well I have started to ramble!!! Again I apologize for bawbling words.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
In general, higher education gives you:
o Better job opportunities: better pay, better working environment, better coworkers, and work which is more in-line with what you like to do.
o More money.
o Better long-term friends: higher education (higher intelligence plus higher discipline) correlates with personalities that are more mature, more trustworthy, less self-centred, less violent, more courteous, more considerate of others, higher morals, more likely to help you out of a jam, etc.
o Better long-term relationships: they won't be as hot or as slutty, but they'll be more likely to have the traits necessary for a stable long-term relationship (mainly the stuff listed for better long-term friends). Plus you'll have more money and your competition will also be less good-looking and less self-confident, giving you better odds  .
o Better personality yourself: better friends have a better influence on your own personality, improving it rather than degrading it.
o Better contacts in the job world, leading to better job opportunities (again).
o Better opportunities to learn: if you enjoy learning about anything, you can learn even more about it with a higher education.
So basically, if you're the kind of person who prefers the types of people you'll meet in university/college, then having a higher education will improve pretty much every aspect of your life. And by those "types of people", I'm not referring to the small minority who are cocky grade-whores. I mean friends who tend to have those positive attributes I listed above, moreso than the average person.
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"I don't believe in school controlling life. I just don't believe in life being spent devoted to school. If the only reason to learn is to learn more, life isn't worth living. "Live life to the fullest" Are you really doing that if your life is based upon studying? Stuff like that leaves so little room to enjoy life.
Why to we eat? To survive. Why do we live? To replicate. Why do we cry? To show our emotions. So why do we study then?
Discuss, future bright minds."
Are you a religious person?? From what I can tell you do not have Jesus in your life(in all seriousness)
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Some people are just naturally competitive, whatever they do, they want to be the best. And that is why they try to get that 95%+, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
As for why we study, Bill covered it really well, and there isn't much for me to add.
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Practiacly, my advice is to stay is school and at least get a BA, because of the oportunity it will offer, and education as well. But don't exert yoruself in order to get top marks.
I just believe that sometimes the idea of overachieving or "doing your best" is overemphasized. Good. I tend to laugh at people who tell me to do my best. Sometimes I'll joke with them and say, hey im doing my best now. Or I'll question them and say, how do i know when i get there? Just about always, they have no response.
If I look at some of my collegues, there are ones that I have a certain loathe towards: their life is based upon their grades. These people CRY over things like getting an 95% instead of their usually 99% or 100%. They are very selfish and insecure about their marks: wishing that they'll always be that #1 student and no one can exceed them, it's just absolutely rediculous. Yes, often, its not good to compare yourself to others and shape your life around somewhat arbitrary guidelines.
Unlike most people I dont give much of a damn about grades. I do care about learning though. This mindset may lead to high marks, or it may not. I don't bother at all with stuff like SAT. I took it because if was basically necessary to get into certain collages, but thats all.
I hate it when tests are so heavily emphasized like that, because it rarely shows the true intelligence of a student. Anyone can prepare for a long period of time for something and heavily increase the results, for tests or things other than tests. It really sucks too because when they emphasize that stuff so heavily, the students are either forced to take it that seriously, or risk looking much less intelligent than they might be - by being anti-social and more interest in school than anything else. One thing that I struggled with was the fact that those who are best at something, tend to spend the most time on it. Those who are best at SC, tend to play it the most. Those who get the highest marks, tend to study the most. When the world is this way, ones focus should be on what tasks are worthwhile to spend time on, and then spend time on them. Not on spending time on whatever, for example, laregly socially esteemed school grades, to be the best.
I don't believe in school controlling life. I just don't believe in life being spent devoted to school. If the only reason to learn is to learn more, life isn't worth living. "Live life to the fullest" Are you really doing that if your life is based upon studying? Stuff like that leaves so little room to enjoy life. I might venture that learning is often valuable in itself because of its vaualbe effects on the learner.
Why to we eat? To survive. Why do we live? To replicate. Why do we cry? To show our emotions. So why do we study then? Sometimes i just eat for pleasure, how about you? Why do i live? Because i have not taken my life, eh. Why do i cry. Its a way to deal with emotion. Why do do i study? To learn and improve myself.
So what do you want motivation for now?
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I think what legendary dreams is talking about here is not the importance of education as his title suggests, but how high up on the priority ladder education should be placed.
i personally agree with you in that i don't think life should be spent studying 100% of the time. there are some chinese kids in our major who seriously live to study. yes, they blow all of our curves out of the water, and will graduate at the top of the class, but who cares really? not me.
i have decided that in order not to lead a miserable four years of college (which i would absolutely have to to pull a 4.0 in chemical engineering), that i would not live my life in a book. yes, my grades aren't as good as they would be if i studied 24/7, but I don't really care that much.
For the engineering minded, I picture studying to be an asymptotic function. Once you reach a certain point in studying, continuing to study will increase your marks, but only marginally. So why spend the extra four hours? that is, in my opinion, a waste of our youth.
I study until I know what I feel like I need to know. Then, come test time, if nuances pop up I use my knowledge to make educated guesses, or plain flat out leave them blank.
The Chinese kids? You'd best believe they know what the meaning and units of J* are on a fluid dynamics test, or have the formula for the equation of continuity in polar coordinates to memory.
I get slightly above the class average. They get A's. Do I care? No. Why? I get what I deserve. And by slightly lowering my standards, I can still know material, and know it well; but more importantly, I find time for doing the things that I truly love and make me happy, such as playing starcraft for three hours if I feel like it, or going out for a movie with friends.
It's the only way to stay sane in a difficult major.
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On February 18 2006 11:49 LegendaryDreams wrote:
Good reasoning, draeger. But tell me, what\'s the difference between going to a top notch university - Harvard or to a good one - UoT (University of Toronto). Would you enjoy competing with all of those geniouses if you made it in?
Truthfully, unless you have your heart set on some ridiculous company that requires a harvard degree to attend, you're better off just going somewhere above average. You can make a good living off a degree from a non-ivy league school. And in the process, you can save yourself $100k.
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On February 18 2006 12:23 draeger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2006 11:49 LegendaryDreams wrote:
Good reasoning, draeger. But tell me, what\'s the difference between going to a top notch university - Harvard or to a good one - UoT (University of Toronto). Would you enjoy competing with all of those geniouses if you made it in? Truthfully, unless you have your heart set on some ridiculous company that requires a harvard degree to attend, you're better off just going somewhere above average. You can make a good living off a degree from a non-ivy league school. And in the process, you can save yourself $100k.
not to mention you won't be working yourself to the bone to try to keep up with insane competition
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On February 18 2006 12:26 lil.sis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2006 12:23 draeger wrote:On February 18 2006 11:49 LegendaryDreams wrote:
Good reasoning, draeger. But tell me, what\'s the difference between going to a top notch university - Harvard or to a good one - UoT (University of Toronto). Would you enjoy competing with all of those geniouses if you made it in? Truthfully, unless you have your heart set on some ridiculous company that requires a harvard degree to attend, you're better off just going somewhere above average. You can make a good living off a degree from a non-ivy league school. And in the process, you can save yourself $100k. not to mention you won't be working yourself to the bone to try to keep up with insane competition
A friend of mine attends Harvard, and according to him, there is some rampant grade inflation there. Although, if you're in engineering, it may be rather different.
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The reason Koreans are so into studying is because of Seoul National University.
Seoul National Univerity (SNU) is ranked first in Korea. Hundreds of thousands of students apply for that school. If you attend and graduate SNU, its almost guaranteed that you'll get rich.
However, SNU is ranked outside the top 100 in the world. People who fail to attend SNU come to America and get full academic scholarships to Harvard.
I say it again, people that fail SNU get scholarships to Harvard and most other Ivy League colleges.
Pretty pathetic. These guys are studying so hard to get into a school that's worth nothing internationally.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On February 18 2006 12:45 miNi wrote:
The reason Koreans are so into studying is because of Seoul National University.
Seoul National Univerity (SNU) is ranked first in Korea. Hundreds of thousands of students apply for that school. If you attend and graduate SNU, its almost guaranteed that you'll get rich.
However, SNU is ranked outside the top 100 in the world. People who fail to attend SNU come to America and get full academic scholarships to Harvard.
I say it again, people that fail SNU get scholarships to Harvard and most other Ivy League colleges.
Pretty pathetic. These guys are studying so hard to get into a school that's worth nothing internationally.
But you said yourself that they're almost guaranteed to get rich, despite its international standing .
However, their interpersonal skills will probably take a huge hit, and their maturity will lag behind as well. Also, if their only passion in life is money, success, fame, etc., then they are doomed to live a miserable life. Wealth is a terrible motivation for life.
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EPT
