On October 07 2012 03:58 youngminii wrote: Reddit's r/starcraft disappointed me a lot today. Generally like reddit but this is something I don't expect from one of the larger subreddits.
Context: Stephano's vague comment about a 14 year old gets posted on reddit and the ensuing comments are filled with people defending pedophilia.
Comments like "The age of consent in a lot of European countries is 14. It's dumb how people are only horrified because their government told them to be."
and
"I've seen quite a few 14 yo girls who I thought were older and looked good.. and let's be honest, the only reason I wouldn't bang them is because I don't want to go to jail.. I'm sure a lot of people are like "wtf you'd bang a 14 yo if it were legal, you're sick, blah blah blah".. but I'm sure most of these people would too and only say that because it's looked down upon to admit it.. but hey.. most men would bang a 14 year old given the chance if it were legal" (This comment being made by a 23 year old)
The rest of the world isn't as Puritan/socially conservative as the Anglosphere.
The reality is, most males do find mid-to-late adolescent females to be attractive. There's a reason why, unlike pedophilia, ephebophilia is not defined as a mental disorder or paraphilia by psychologists. Age of consent laws in most of the world used to reflect this, until feminist groups like the Woman's Christian Temperance Union (if the name sounds familiar, it's because they're the same group that got alcohol prohibited) fought to raise them to 16 and 18 in order to control male sexuality.
Human males have evolved to find youth attractive is sexually mature females, and your socially conditioned discomfort with that fact doesn't change that fact. That's not even getting into the double standards where people only have a problem because it's a 14-year-old girl, and would simply consider the teen lucky if the genders were reversed and it was a teen guy having sex with TossGirl.
Its pretty fucking sad that some of these Redditors think that most men would have sex with a 14 year old girl if it was legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think an underage girl is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it.
Of course, knowing Reddit, the whole thing was probably a misunderstanding, but the idiots there need some new reason to be outraged. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of teenagers (its not, by the way). Really makes you wonder how much better the Starcraft community would be if r/starcraft never existed.
On October 07 2012 06:25 MONXY FIST wrote: I think the problem i had with a lot of people in that thread were the people who were saying that just because a government sets the age of consent at a certain age that it does not make it wrong to have sex with people younger then that, they then however defend having sex with a 14 year old by saying the age of consent laws are 14 in some countries. Do they not understand how dumb they sound when they make arguments like that.
You have it backwards. The logic goes like this:
Person A comes in saying people shouldn't have sex with anyone under the age of 18 because it's illegal where Person A lives/it's against Person A's particular set of beliefs.
Person B notes that statutory rape laws are not uniform everywhere, and in fact have only existed in their current form recently, therefore Person A might want to reevaluate their beliefs in an actual critical manner. Person B's point is that if Person A tries to justify themselves with laws created by fallible human beings, their argument immediately falls apart because the laws of different places contradict each other. Then you can move to a rational discussion about what's right, after everyone realizes that repeating what some statute says isn't an argument.
On October 07 2012 07:12 iamho wrote: Its pretty fucking sad that some of these Redditors think that most men would have sex with a 14 year old girl if it was legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think an underage girl is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it.
Of course, knowing Reddit, the whole thing was probably a misunderstanding, but the idiots there need some new reason to be outraged. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of teenagers (its not, by the way). Really makes you wonder how much better the Starcraft community would be if r/starcraft never existed.
"It's fucking sad that these men would have sex with a man if it's legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think a man is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of men (its not, by the way)."
"It's fucking sad that these men would have sex with a black girl if it's legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think a black girl is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of black girls (its not, by the way)."
"It's fucking sad that these men would have sex with a Jew if it's legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think a Jew is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of Jews (its not, by the way)."
Take a look at the above substitutions. Do you see why your post is self-righteous shaming and a complete logical fallacy?
On October 07 2012 07:12 iamho wrote: Its pretty fucking sad that some of these Redditors think that most men would have sex with a 14 year old girl if it was legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think an underage girl is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it.
Of course, knowing Reddit, the whole thing was probably a misunderstanding, but the idiots there need some new reason to be outraged. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of teenagers (its not, by the way). Really makes you wonder how much better the Starcraft community would be if r/starcraft never existed.
"It's fucking sad that these men would have sex with a man if it's legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think a man is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of men (its not, by the way)."
"It's fucking sad that these men would have sex with a black girl if it's legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think a black girl is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of black girls (its not, by the way)."
"It's fucking sad that these men would have sex with a Jew if it's legal. I wouldn't and neither would most normal men. Its one thing to think a Jew is attractive, but if you're an adult you should have the common sense and basic morality not to act on it. Also so certain people can defend why its they think its perfectly normal to jack off at pictures of Jews (its not, by the way)."
Take a look at the above substitutions. Do you see why your post is self-righteous shaming and a complete logical fallacy?
I think your analogies are kind of non-fitting. All of those (assuming they're of the age of consent) are apples while below the age of consent are oranges. I'm all for analogies and comparisons and his post was a bit ridiculous and self righteous but frankly your counter points were equally as bad.
The debate is about the age of consent and how that line is set, in Canada it is 16 and in some States it's 16 - 18. A better placement would be 14 yearold jew/blackwoman/boy. His argument is about age, not ethnic/racial/gender types.
All that being said.
I can't really make an ethical standpoint because frankly are morality and ethics is based off a religious society that set these ground rules around the time of burning witches and hanging scientists.
Human nature puts the average age of the most sexually attractive female age as 17 (around the most fertile age as well) but obviously if it's 17, how different are you from 16 to 17? or 17 to 18? Well by that measure what about 15-17 or 17-19? I know I look rather similar to how I looked in highschool as a undergraduate in university as do most of the girls I was around at the time. I think it's hard to really adjust or move the numbers around because they're all so different, some girls sexually mature later and some earlier and it causes a really tough line of sexual maturity vs sexual fertility.
Thus I kind of lean to 16 should be the age of consent (as is in Canada) and the idea of a sexually attractive 14 year old isn't awfully outlandish by that right but I think it's about sexual maturity and the idea that perhaps on a mental level that teenager isn't right for such conduct with piers 18+ but I would also argue that if they're taking pictures and posting them around for anyone to see makes things even more confusing because male attraction is highly biological and thus being attracted to said photos posted freely seems an odd thing to negate? As I said it's an odd ethical/moral line that we're drawing because every case is SO different from the next.
On October 07 2012 07:34 iamho wrote: A 14 year old girl is not comparable to any of the things you named above. Do I seriously need to explain why?
Yes, you have to actually explain yourself because in the past it has been illegal for men to have sex with men, and for people to have sex with blacks (and although I don't know of any laws against having sex with Jews in their thousands of years of history, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist at some point). These laws all did nothing but criminalize people's private lives.
Edit: Homosexuality is of course still criminalized in too many countries. Not just socially taboo. It carries criminal penalties.
On October 07 2012 07:34 iamho wrote: A 14 year old girl is not comparable to any of the things you named above. Do I seriously need to explain why?
Yes, you have to actually explain yourself because it has been illegal for men to have sex with men, and for people to have sex with blacks in the past (and although I don't know of any laws against having sex with Jews in their thousands of years of history, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist at some point). These laws all did nothing but criminalize people's private lives.
Read my comment above to see why. I'll try and make it short in this post if you don't want to read the first paragraph of so.
we're arguing age, not gender/race/ethnic origin. The differince is that age relates directly to sexual maturity/fertility where the other three relate to human beliefs on a subject not related to the biological way the body works and how the mind develops, you can ar gue that "anal sex isn't how the body was meant to work!" but in the world we see other animals act in the same fashion (giraffes) so perhaps that's a human belief? There is also a set of nerves there that make anal sex pleasurable for some (or so I've been told through various bio courses etc). Apples and oranges, a better way to put it would have been a "14-year old black/jew/gay" as it would have brought those subjects into the matter and related directly to the biological discussion on sexual fertility/maturity and the age of which a person can have full control of themselves to make such decisions and know the consequence, a fight against sexual ignorance if you will.
On October 07 2012 07:34 iamho wrote: A 14 year old girl is not comparable to any of the things you named above. Do I seriously need to explain why?
Yes, you have to actually explain yourself because it has been illegal for men to have sex with men, and for people to have sex with blacks in the past (and although I don't know of any laws against having sex with Jews in their thousands of years of history, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist at some point). These laws all did nothing but criminalize people's private lives.
I wasn't talking about the law. A 14 year old is still a child who doesn't understand anything about the world, and its wrong for an adult to take advantage of a child.
I find it wholly disturbing that people would waste their time trying to remove content from the internet, rather than trying to track down the criminals producing the content.
On October 07 2012 07:34 iamho wrote: A 14 year old girl is not comparable to any of the things you named above. Do I seriously need to explain why?
Yes, you have to actually explain yourself because it has been illegal for men to have sex with men, and for people to have sex with blacks in the past (and although I don't know of any laws against having sex with Jews in their thousands of years of history, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist at some point). These laws all did nothing but criminalize people's private lives.
I wasn't talking about the law. A 14 year old is still a child who doesn't understand anything about the world, and its wrong for an adult to take advantage of a child.
That is subjective, not objective. There are 14 year olds that are more mature than plenty of adults who are allowed to have sex. Are you telling me that a 14 year old who would go through the preparation of using birth control, practicing safe sex to prevent STD's and such, is somehow less understanding of sex than the couple on welfare having seven children and losing them all to foster homes?
There is no magic age where you just begin to understand sex. If sex isn't about physically being prepared, then make a test for licenses to see if you're mature enough to be having sex.
On October 07 2012 07:34 iamho wrote: A 14 year old girl is not comparable to any of the things you named above. Do I seriously need to explain why?
Yes, you have to actually explain yourself because it has been illegal for men to have sex with men, and for people to have sex with blacks in the past (and although I don't know of any laws against having sex with Jews in their thousands of years of history, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist at some point). These laws all did nothing but criminalize people's private lives.
I wasn't talking about the law. A 14 year old is still a child who doesn't understand anything about the world, and its wrong for an adult to take advantage of a child.
A fourTEEN year old is a TEENager. You can choose to call them children I guess, to try and imply that people who are attracted to post pubescent young adults are sicko pedophiles. Really though, all it takes is some basic knowledge of history, psychology, biology, to know how ridiculous such a claim is.
On October 07 2012 07:34 iamho wrote: A 14 year old girl is not comparable to any of the things you named above. Do I seriously need to explain why?
Yes, you have to actually explain yourself because it has been illegal for men to have sex with men, and for people to have sex with blacks in the past (and although I don't know of any laws against having sex with Jews in their thousands of years of history, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist at some point). These laws all did nothing but criminalize people's private lives.
I wasn't talking about the law. A 14 year old is still a child who doesn't understand anything about the world, and its wrong for an adult to take advantage of a child.
I think you are severely underestimating how much some 14 year olds know about the world.
On October 07 2012 07:34 iamho wrote: A 14 year old girl is not comparable to any of the things you named above. Do I seriously need to explain why?
Yes, because you're making a logical leap based on your own socialized biases. Please explain so you actually have a logical argument for me to tear apart, instead of saying "It's wrong, because, duh!"
On October 07 2012 07:34 iamho wrote: A 14 year old girl is not comparable to any of the things you named above. Do I seriously need to explain why?
Yes, you have to actually explain yourself because it has been illegal for men to have sex with men, and for people to have sex with blacks in the past (and although I don't know of any laws against having sex with Jews in their thousands of years of history, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist at some point). These laws all did nothing but criminalize people's private lives.
I wasn't talking about the law. A 14 year old is still a child who doesn't understand anything about the world, and its wrong for an adult to take advantage of a child.
If a 14-year-old male raped a woman, he is held criminally responsible, even in jurisdictions where he doesn't meet the age of consent. Do you find this morally objectionable too? Probably not, which reveals your double standards on the issue.
Most people would probably also find nothing objectionable about an adult woman having sex with a 14-year-old male, nor would anyone consider the woman to be taking advantage of the guy. This is, of course, in spite of the fact that on average males mature slower than females. Why do you think that male sexuality is considered exploitative, and female sexuality is not?
Simply put, you're making an assumption that 14-year-olds don't understand anything about the world. This would have been an inaccurate characterization of myself at 14, and I think a lot of people feel similarly. Not all 14-year-olds are mentally immature, and plenty of 16 or 18-year-olds are; the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that 14-year-olds are mentally immature in a way that 16-year-olds are not. Would you object to an adult having sex with a mentally mature 14-year-old? Somehow, I think the answer would still be yes.
Most 14 year old girls crave for sex with older men, if anything it's usually them that will try to push the sex. There are "predators" too I guess but they're the immense minority. Seriously have any decent-looking 20 year old showing at some gathering with lots of 14-15 year old girls and half of them will try to get him. Is it "morally wrong" for the older guy to do that ? In the vast majority of the cases 14 years old girls really look too young and not "women enough" for my taste, but in some case, especially if I didn't know the girl's age (famous "Angie Varona case" for instance, or the american gymnast more recently, mckayla marooney I think) I probably wouldn't resist much, if at all. Now people ACTIVELY seeking to have sex with 14 years old over older girls I'd consider weird, but as far as I'm concerned unless there is blatant abuse in some form from the guy, it should be allowed, if not necessarily "approved of".
And concerning Stephano I'm 99,9% sure he was trolling, perfectly knew bling was streaming and was doing all that shit on purpose to have some attention on Reddit & co.
FFS, 14 year olds cannot work, cannot drive, cannot vote, cannot fight in wars, cannot get rents, cannot get mortgages, cannot do anything in our society. They are still going through puberty and do not have anything close to physically developed brains. We do not live in caveman times, 14 year olds are more children than they are adults.
Regarding your point about the 14 year old having sex with an adult woman: Only teenage kids think this kind of shit is okay, it is disgusting and the woman should end up in jail. I'm fairly certain the vast majority of society would agree with me.
On October 07 2012 08:20 iamho wrote: FFS, 14 year olds cannot work, cannot drive, cannot vote, cannot fight in wars, cannot get rents, cannot get mortgages, cannot do anything in our society. They are still going through puberty and do not have anything close to physically developed brains. We do not live in caveman times, 14 year olds are more children than they are adults.
Regarding your point about the 14 year old having sex with an adult woman: Only teenage kids think this kind of shit is okay, it is disgusting and the woman should end up in jail. I'm fairly certain the vast majority of society would agree with me.
So your reason that having sex is wrong at the age of 14 is because it's illegal for 14 year olds to do a bunch of other things? Not exactly reasonable. But guess what: It's not illegal for a 14 year old to have sex in every country. Does that make those places morally bankrupt? Lawless havens where no child goes unraped? Of course not.
And there are plenty of 14 year olds that are more mature, mentally, than an adult. Again, I reiterate; do you think a 14 year old having consensual, safe sex is wrong?
If yes, how about two adults having sex, only to end up with seven children that they do not have the means to take care of? Is that somehow okay?
It's subjective. Entirely dependent on the individuals involved, not on some magic number that suddenly makes you more enlightened.
On October 07 2012 08:20 iamho wrote: FFS, 14 year olds cannot work, cannot drive, cannot vote, cannot fight in wars, cannot get rents, cannot get mortgages, cannot do anything in our society. They are still going through puberty and do not have anything close to physically developed brains. We do not live in caveman times, 14 year olds are more children than they are adults.
Regarding your point about the 14 year old having sex with an adult woman: Only teenage kids think this kind of shit is okay, it is disgusting and the woman should end up in jail. I'm fairly certain the vast majority of society would agree with me.
14 year olds can work, and in many nations around the world they do. 14 year olds can drive with a learners permit in some states in the US. 14 year olds and even younger have fought in wars around the world, even today. Maturity has nothing to do with this number we call age. You can find 14 year olds who are more mature than many 20+ year olds.
I'm quite shocked by the amount of tlers who think a 14 year old is mentally developed enough to make such a choice. Just because something is "natural" and "instinctual" doesn't make it right in our society. As an adult myself I recognize it's wrong to sleep with a 14 year old. Just because your mind finds them attractive doesn't make it ok. A 14 year old child is incredibly immature and almost completely oblivious to the negatives effects of a sexual relationship, especially with an adult who is likely taking advantage of them being so naive.
If you believe such a thing is ok as an adult you have a serious issue. There are more than enough older women to sleep with. I hate seeing an older loser take advantage of young women mostly because he's too stupid to attract a mate his age.
On October 07 2012 08:20 iamho wrote: FFS, 14 year olds cannot work, cannot drive, cannot vote, cannot fight in wars, cannot get rents, cannot get mortgages, cannot do anything in our society. They are still going through puberty and do not have anything close to physically developed brains. We do not live in caveman times, 14 year olds are more children than they are adults.
Regarding your point about the 14 year old having sex with an adult woman: Only teenage kids think this kind of shit is okay, it is disgusting and the woman should end up in jail. I'm fairly certain the vast majority of society would agree with me.
14 year olds can work, and in many nations around the world they do. 14 year olds can drive with a learners permit in some states in the US. 14 year olds and even younger have fought in wars around the world, even today. Maturity has nothing to do with this number we call age. You can find 14 year olds who are more mature than many 20+ year olds.
So your logic is because someone else took advantage of children in some ways its ok for you to also? That's incredibly pathetic. And the only persons you will find less mature than a 14 year old are likely developmentally handicapped or stunted in some way. A normal 14 year old brought up in a normal environment where she is not forced to mature early is not even close to mature enough to make such decisions.
On October 07 2012 08:20 iamho wrote: FFS, 14 year olds cannot work, cannot drive, cannot vote, cannot fight in wars, cannot get rents, cannot get mortgages, cannot do anything in our society. They are still going through puberty and do not have anything close to physically developed brains. We do not live in caveman times, 14 year olds are more children than they are adults.
Regarding your point about the 14 year old having sex with an adult woman: Only teenage kids think this kind of shit is okay, it is disgusting and the woman should end up in jail. I'm fairly certain the vast majority of society would agree with me.
Just one example, what do you think Child actors are doing then? Just to detract from what I think you are implying (that 14 year olds are just fucking babies), does this person seem utterly incapable of rational thought?
I think I get it. Some people here are upset because they're 14-18 year olds and think I'm personally offending them. Here's the truth: you're not mature. Having a big vocabulary does not make you mature, having an opinion on politics does not make you mature, watching Carl Sagan videos on youtube does not make you mature. If this doesn't apply to you I apologize, but this damn well applies to the average Redditor, and probably has something to do with the fact that they think its okay to have sex with a 14 year old.
EPT
