|
Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion. -semioldguy |
On September 16 2012 01:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:17 fluidin wrote:On September 16 2012 01:12 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:27 Silidons wrote:On September 15 2012 20:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:
If you can make a racist movie because freedom of speech is holy ground, you can make a demo because you don't like whatever you don't like. Mind you, 99,99% of those people are absolutely peaceful.
I wonder how many people support these actions though? If not, where the fuck is the other 1.5 billion people protesting in rage of what people of their religion did? How come all these 1% (or in your case, .01%) always have the big riots? Why can't just 2% of peaceful Muslims protest and drown the violent ones out? Can you answer that question? I don't get the question but it's very simple. There haven't been any significance violence in Western countrie's demos (from what I know) -and no, burning a flag or spitting on police is not "significant violence". So if you guys care so much about freedom of speech, you shouldn't talk about fining or arresting those people. They are not associated to the fundamentalists who killed that embassador even if they protest for the same reasons. There are simply no "big riots" except in Lybia / Egypt etc... where salafist, who, even there, are probably a slight monrity, have turned violent. So, afain, if you want to be consistent, stop raging and talk of fining / putting in jail all those protesters, because somewhere in an other country, some people protesting for the same cause have turned violent. So that you know, the embassador has been killed by an extremely small crowd. And again, I think those protests are fucking retarded. The fact that someone has actually be killed for such a ridiculous reason is beyond absurd. Once again, not one person raged and said to " fine and put in jail all these protesters." We're saying to impose heavier sentences on violent protesters, because it's against the law. Peaceful demonstration is legal, violence is not. And this law will apply to all following similar cases, not just against muslims, but also for any violent demonstrators of any race or religion in the future. And as far as I'm concerned, maybe it isn't the same for all, burning of a recognized country's flag counts as a serious crime and should carry a heavy penalty, like a jail term. Really? A flag is a piece of coloured sheet on which some "patriots" put their ego and their pride when they play at which country has the biggest dick. It's a symbol. You burn a flag, it just means you are very angry against that country. Great. Personally I don't care and I hardly see how burning a symbol is a serious offense or "significant violence".
I didn't say burning a flag is "significantly violent", but it is my personal opinion that burning a flag is a serious offence. It's fine if you guys don't share my opinion though.
|
On September 16 2012 01:38 fluidin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:17 fluidin wrote:On September 16 2012 01:12 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:27 Silidons wrote:On September 15 2012 20:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:
If you can make a racist movie because freedom of speech is holy ground, you can make a demo because you don't like whatever you don't like. Mind you, 99,99% of those people are absolutely peaceful.
I wonder how many people support these actions though? If not, where the fuck is the other 1.5 billion people protesting in rage of what people of their religion did? How come all these 1% (or in your case, .01%) always have the big riots? Why can't just 2% of peaceful Muslims protest and drown the violent ones out? Can you answer that question? I don't get the question but it's very simple. There haven't been any significance violence in Western countrie's demos (from what I know) -and no, burning a flag or spitting on police is not "significant violence". So if you guys care so much about freedom of speech, you shouldn't talk about fining or arresting those people. They are not associated to the fundamentalists who killed that embassador even if they protest for the same reasons. There are simply no "big riots" except in Lybia / Egypt etc... where salafist, who, even there, are probably a slight monrity, have turned violent. So, afain, if you want to be consistent, stop raging and talk of fining / putting in jail all those protesters, because somewhere in an other country, some people protesting for the same cause have turned violent. So that you know, the embassador has been killed by an extremely small crowd. And again, I think those protests are fucking retarded. The fact that someone has actually be killed for such a ridiculous reason is beyond absurd. Once again, not one person raged and said to " fine and put in jail all these protesters." We're saying to impose heavier sentences on violent protesters, because it's against the law. Peaceful demonstration is legal, violence is not. And this law will apply to all following similar cases, not just against muslims, but also for any violent demonstrators of any race or religion in the future. And as far as I'm concerned, maybe it isn't the same for all, burning of a recognized country's flag counts as a serious crime and should carry a heavy penalty, like a jail term. Really? A flag is a piece of coloured sheet on which some "patriots" put their ego and their pride when they play at which country has the biggest dick. It's a symbol. You burn a flag, it just means you are very angry against that country. Great. Personally I don't care and I hardly see how burning a symbol is a serious offense or "significant violence". I didn't say burning a flag is "significantly violent", but it is my personal opinion that burning a flag is a serious offence. It's fine if you guys don't share my opinion though.
Good so as long as it's not against the law, people should be allowed to burn flags. And since we agree these protest are in majority non violent, i guess it's all right due to the holy freedom of speech.
Once again, my claim is simple. If you rant against those demos, then you should also rant against this movie.
|
On September 16 2012 01:38 fluidin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:17 fluidin wrote:On September 16 2012 01:12 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:27 Silidons wrote:On September 15 2012 20:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:
If you can make a racist movie because freedom of speech is holy ground, you can make a demo because you don't like whatever you don't like. Mind you, 99,99% of those people are absolutely peaceful.
I wonder how many people support these actions though? If not, where the fuck is the other 1.5 billion people protesting in rage of what people of their religion did? How come all these 1% (or in your case, .01%) always have the big riots? Why can't just 2% of peaceful Muslims protest and drown the violent ones out? Can you answer that question? I don't get the question but it's very simple. There haven't been any significance violence in Western countrie's demos (from what I know) -and no, burning a flag or spitting on police is not "significant violence". So if you guys care so much about freedom of speech, you shouldn't talk about fining or arresting those people. They are not associated to the fundamentalists who killed that embassador even if they protest for the same reasons. There are simply no "big riots" except in Lybia / Egypt etc... where salafist, who, even there, are probably a slight monrity, have turned violent. So, afain, if you want to be consistent, stop raging and talk of fining / putting in jail all those protesters, because somewhere in an other country, some people protesting for the same cause have turned violent. So that you know, the embassador has been killed by an extremely small crowd. And again, I think those protests are fucking retarded. The fact that someone has actually be killed for such a ridiculous reason is beyond absurd. Once again, not one person raged and said to " fine and put in jail all these protesters." We're saying to impose heavier sentences on violent protesters, because it's against the law. Peaceful demonstration is legal, violence is not. And this law will apply to all following similar cases, not just against muslims, but also for any violent demonstrators of any race or religion in the future. And as far as I'm concerned, maybe it isn't the same for all, burning of a recognized country's flag counts as a serious crime and should carry a heavy penalty, like a jail term. Really? A flag is a piece of coloured sheet on which some "patriots" put their ego and their pride when they play at which country has the biggest dick. It's a symbol. You burn a flag, it just means you are very angry against that country. Great. Personally I don't care and I hardly see how burning a symbol is a serious offense or "significant violence". I didn't say burning a flag is "significantly violent", but it is my personal opinion that burning a flag is a serious offence. It's fine if you guys don't share my opinion though.
There is a very simple rule in philosophy when it comes to contradictions A & -A can't exist. You can't argue for freedom of speech and then try and stifle a form of speech through actions. It is a severe contradiction that just shouldn't happen. I do agree it is fine if we don't agree with you though, but perhaps before you get into a discussion that heavily ties around the idea of freedom of speech you don't advocate that freedom and then attempt to contradict it because of personal bias or ridiculous nationalism/patriotism.
|
On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal.
It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition.
Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation.
The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group.
As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence.
|
On September 16 2012 01:46 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal. It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition. Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation. The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group. As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence.
Great. So since those demos are about hate and not violence, you should respect them and stick to your principles. They have nothing to do with the ambassador who got killed in a far away country by completely different people.
As for Muslims, I don't feel that I have to protest everytime some Christian nutcase does something stupid. I don't feel that any Christian is my "brother" and that I am responsible for their acts. Did you protest when Breivik killed 70 people? No. Why should my cousin protest because some people he despise killed someone for bad reason that he doesn't agree with in a country that is as far from him as Norway is from you? Why on EARTH should a European or American muslim protest and make demos because some salafists killed someone in Lybia?
That's fucking ridiculous.
|
On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here.
chill out bro
I'm just stating that this is causing more hate. What did you expect?
|
On September 16 2012 01:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:46 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal. It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition. Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation. The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group. As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence. Great. So since those demos are about hate and not violence, you should respect them and stick to your principles. They have nothing to do with the ambassador who got killed in a far away country by completely different people. As for Muslims, I don't feel that I have to protest everytime some Christian nutcase does something stupid. I don't feel that any Christian is my "brother" and that I am responsible for their acts. Did you protest when Breivik killed 70 people? No. Why should my cousin protest because some people he despise killed someone for bad reason that he doesn't agree with in a country that is as far from him as Norway is from you? Why on EARTH should a European or American muslim protest and make demos because some salafists killed someone in Lybia? That's fucking ridiculous.
Because there aren't hundreds of thousands of Breivik's, or mass murderers, but there are hundreds of thousands of extremist Muslims that want nothing more than the death of Western civilization...
These extremists cause problems and we have to stand against all of them, not just Muslims, but Christians etc.
We cannot continue to sit by and ignore it. How do you not see this? How do you not see how the extremists are ruining Muslim countries? You're completely missing the point.
|
On September 16 2012 01:52 frontliner2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. chill out bro I'm just stating that this is causing more hate. What did you expect?
I expect people to be clever and not make generalization about "Muslims" because some ambassador got killed by nutcases in Benghazi.
But that's too much to ask. You are right, it just feed the hate and our far right fascist leaders will be happy to blame the "Muslims" and get the vote of people who mix up everything. Happy day for Wilder, Le Pen, the Tea Party and the other far right fuckers.
I also expect people to realize that what is "causing more hate" in the first place is this retarded video. But nobody cares about that. Idiots burning flags is more important.
|
On September 16 2012 01:56 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:46 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal. It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition. Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation. The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group. As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence. Great. So since those demos are about hate and not violence, you should respect them and stick to your principles. They have nothing to do with the ambassador who got killed in a far away country by completely different people. As for Muslims, I don't feel that I have to protest everytime some Christian nutcase does something stupid. I don't feel that any Christian is my "brother" and that I am responsible for their acts. Did you protest when Breivik killed 70 people? No. Why should my cousin protest because some people he despise killed someone for bad reason that he doesn't agree with in a country that is as far from him as Norway is from you? Why on EARTH should a European or American muslim protest and make demos because some salafists killed someone in Lybia? That's fucking ridiculous. Because there aren't hundreds of thousands of Breivik's, or mass murderers, but there are hundreds of thousands of extremist Muslims that want nothing more than the death of Western civilization... These extremists cause problems and we have to stand against all of them, not just Muslims, but Christians etc. We cannot continue to sit by and ignore it. How do you not see this? How do you not see how the extremists are ruining Muslim countries? You're completely missing the point.
There are quite a lot of people who have ideas I don't find much better than the ones of extremist Muslim. The whole Tea Party for example.
Extremist are ruining Muslim countries and Muslims life in our countries because people are not clever enough between a fraction of people and the immense majority who don't share any of those ideas. They just see "the Muslims" and dmix everything up.
|
If we assume that all religions are violent, still muslims make the most violence on civilians..
|
Russian Federation266 Posts
On September 16 2012 01:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I also expect people to realize that what is "causing more hate" in the first place is this retarded video. But nobody cares about that. Idiots burning flags is more important.
And that's right. There is freedom of expression, and if you get offended by something it doesn't give you rights to go violent, break stuff and kill people. Idiots burning flags are only important because they explicitly support fanatics who actually kill people.
|
On September 16 2012 02:00 exog wrote:
If we assume that all religions are violent, still muslims make the most violence on civilians..
They're also the most prosecuted and discriminated against. There might be a correlation there but that is just an assumption I've made, I have no backing for it.
Back someone into a corner for long enough they'll bite at any sign of danger, that is how I think Muslims are feeling.
Also
According to the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, in 2010, the number of American Muslims involved in terrorist acts dropped by more than half compared to 2009. More non-Muslims than Muslims were involved in terrorist attacks overall.
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/feisal_abdul_rauf/2011/03/at_peter_kings_muslim_hearings_focus_on_our_common_enemies_extremism_and_fear.html
Interesting statement, this doesn't directly relate to your post (the link) but it goes to show Muslims aren't and always the terrorists and have been in the decline.
|
On September 16 2012 01:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:46 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal. It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition. Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation. The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group. As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence. Great. So since those demos are about hate and not violence, you should respect them and stick to your principles. They have nothing to do with the ambassador who got killed in a far away country by completely different people. As for Muslims, I don't feel that I have to protest everytime some Christian nutcase does something stupid. I don't feel that any Christian is my "brother" and that I am responsible for their acts. Did you protest when Breivik killed 70 people? No. Why should my cousin protest because some people he despise killed someone for bad reason that he doesn't agree with in a country that is as far from him as Norway is from you? Why on EARTH should a European or American muslim protest and make demos because some salafists killed someone in Lybia? That's fucking ridiculous.
Last time I checked Breivik was 1 person. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not sure.
You're not looking at the situation at hand (probably on purpose) because it's obvious that you're a sympathizer. What the poster said before you is correct - wherever the WBC goes, there is a MUCH larger opposition protest there. Why is this NEVER seen in the Muslim world? The only reason that one can think of, seeing as how there are over 1.5b Muslims, is that a large majority of Muslims are okay with it. They might not be violent themselves, but they are fine with others doing it. I'm not exactly sure how this .01% is able to expand themselves across multiple countries and continents, that's another fallacy I'd love to have explained to me.
On September 16 2012 02:03 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 02:00 exog wrote:
If we assume that all religions are violent, still muslims make the most violence on civilians.. They're also the most prosecuted and discriminated against. There might be a correlation there but that is just an assumption I've made, I have no backing for it. Back someone into a corner for long enough they'll bite at any sign of danger, that is how I think Muslims are feeling. Also Show nested quote +According to the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, in 2010, the number of American Muslims involved in terrorist acts dropped by more than half compared to 2009. More non-Muslims than Muslims were involved in terrorist attacks overall. http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/feisal_abdul_rauf/2011/03/at_peter_kings_muslim_hearings_focus_on_our_common_enemies_extremism_and_fear.htmlInteresting statement, this doesn't directly relate to your post (the link) but it goes to show Muslims aren't and always the terrorists and have been in the decline.
Edit: More non-Muslims than Muslims were involved in terrorist attacks overall. is a HUGE blanket statement and should only be taken at face value. All terrorist acts by Muslims are in the name of Allah. That is an entirely different type of terrorism.
|
On September 16 2012 01:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:52 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. chill out bro I'm just stating that this is causing more hate. What did you expect? I expect people to be clever and not make generalization about "Muslims" because some ambassador got killed by nutcases in Benghazi. But that's too much to ask. You are right, it just feed the hate and our far right fascist leaders will be happy to blame the "Muslims" and get the vote of people who mix up everything. Happy day for Wilder, Le Pen, the Tea Party and the other far right fuckers. I also expect people to realize that what is "causing more hate" in the first place is this retarded video. But nobody cares about that. Idiots burning flags is more important.
Whats causing more hate is the extremist muslims over reacting and wanting blood for every little fucking thing. Yes it's not most Muslims opinions but it seems to happen every time. A cartoon of their prophet? Riots death threats etc. A video about hating them, Go kill the ambassador! And then these same extremists wonder why people are hating muslims... If every joke/crappy hate video directed your way turns into you wanting blood/rioting... well guess what people aren't going to like you very much... Seriously, grow a pair and ignore the stupid video, instead of giving people reasons to make more videos.
Again I realize not all muslims are like that, but their religion does actually promote it. Mixed with the fact at how often these extremists over react to little things, you have to admit its getting harder and harder to separate the extremists...
|
On September 16 2012 01:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:56 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:46 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal. It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition. Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation. The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group. As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence. Great. So since those demos are about hate and not violence, you should respect them and stick to your principles. They have nothing to do with the ambassador who got killed in a far away country by completely different people. As for Muslims, I don't feel that I have to protest everytime some Christian nutcase does something stupid. I don't feel that any Christian is my "brother" and that I am responsible for their acts. Did you protest when Breivik killed 70 people? No. Why should my cousin protest because some people he despise killed someone for bad reason that he doesn't agree with in a country that is as far from him as Norway is from you? Why on EARTH should a European or American muslim protest and make demos because some salafists killed someone in Lybia? That's fucking ridiculous. Because there aren't hundreds of thousands of Breivik's, or mass murderers, but there are hundreds of thousands of extremist Muslims that want nothing more than the death of Western civilization... These extremists cause problems and we have to stand against all of them, not just Muslims, but Christians etc. We cannot continue to sit by and ignore it. How do you not see this? How do you not see how the extremists are ruining Muslim countries? You're completely missing the point. There are quite a lot of people who have ideas I don't find much better than the ones of extremist Muslim. The whole Tea Party for example. Extremist are ruining Muslim countries and Muslims life in our countries because people are not clever enough between a fraction of people and the immense majority who don't share any of those ideas. They just see "the Muslims" and dmix everything up.
The Tea Party isn't destroying their cities, or burning buildings, or killing innocent people. These protests are not peaceful, and should not be the reaction to a hate filled video. Nonetheless, I hope one day that we can all just get along, but that's a long stretch.
|
On September 16 2012 02:06 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:46 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal. It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition. Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation. The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group. As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence. Great. So since those demos are about hate and not violence, you should respect them and stick to your principles. They have nothing to do with the ambassador who got killed in a far away country by completely different people. As for Muslims, I don't feel that I have to protest everytime some Christian nutcase does something stupid. I don't feel that any Christian is my "brother" and that I am responsible for their acts. Did you protest when Breivik killed 70 people? No. Why should my cousin protest because some people he despise killed someone for bad reason that he doesn't agree with in a country that is as far from him as Norway is from you? Why on EARTH should a European or American muslim protest and make demos because some salafists killed someone in Lybia? That's fucking ridiculous. Last time I checked Breivik was 1 person. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not sure. You're not looking at the situation at hand (probably on purpose) because it's obvious that you're a sympathizer. What the poster said before you is correct - wherever the WBC goes, there is a MUCH larger opposition protest there. Why is this NEVER seen in the Muslim world? The only reason that one can think of, seeing as how there are over 1.5b Muslims, is that a large majority of Muslims are okay with it. They might not be violent themselves, but they are fine with others doing it. I'm not exactly sure how this .01% is able to expand themselves across multiple countries and continents, that's another fallacy I'd love to have explained to me. Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 02:03 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On September 16 2012 02:00 exog wrote:
If we assume that all religions are violent, still muslims make the most violence on civilians.. They're also the most prosecuted and discriminated against. There might be a correlation there but that is just an assumption I've made, I have no backing for it. Back someone into a corner for long enough they'll bite at any sign of danger, that is how I think Muslims are feeling. Also According to the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, in 2010, the number of American Muslims involved in terrorist acts dropped by more than half compared to 2009. More non-Muslims than Muslims were involved in terrorist attacks overall. http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/feisal_abdul_rauf/2011/03/at_peter_kings_muslim_hearings_focus_on_our_common_enemies_extremism_and_fear.htmlInteresting statement, this doesn't directly relate to your post (the link) but it goes to show Muslims aren't and always the terrorists and have been in the decline. Edit: More non-Muslims than Muslims were involved in terrorist attacks overall. is a HUGE blanket statement and should only be taken at face value. All terrorist acts by Muslims are in the name of Allah. That is an entirely different type of terrorism.
Also a lot of "terrorist attacks" are named terrorist attacks but are not forms of terrorism at all, almost every attack in the Middle East on Americans is a form of asymmetrical warfare. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare (this is very broad btw, a lot of reading).
A lot of "terrorist acts by Muslims" are not in the name of Allah as much as they are in the name of defending their land. Put any name to it as a rallying cause most just feel prosecuted. Wouldn't you feel rather prosecuted if your homeland was invaded by foreigners mainly with regards to oil and they've been there for a decade? I think so, I know I wouldn't be very hesitant in defending my land.
|
On September 16 2012 01:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:52 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:20 frontliner2 wrote:
So are there no more protest/riots/murders today?"
edit
that would be great ofcourse http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. chill out bro I'm just stating that this is causing more hate. What did you expect? I expect people to be clever and not make generalization about "Muslims" because some ambassador got killed by nutcases in Benghazi. But that's too much to ask. You are right, it just feed the hate and our far right fascist leaders will be happy to blame the "Muslims" and get the vote of people who mix up everything. Happy day for Wilder, Le Pen, the Tea Party and the other far right fuckers. I also expect people to realize that what is "causing more hate" in the first place is this retarded video. But nobody cares about that. Idiots burning flags is more important.
I dont expect that because people aren;t that smart. I hope there will be some damage control but in general people don;'t really enjoy muslim actions and influence.
|
The point is that offending shit is posted in newspapers/media all the time, only muslims organize killings because of oversensitivity.
|
On September 16 2012 02:03 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 02:00 exog wrote:
If we assume that all religions are violent, still muslims make the most violence on civilians.. They're also the most prosecuted and discriminated against. There might be a correlation there but that is just an assumption I've made, I have no backing for it. Back someone into a corner for long enough they'll bite at any sign of danger, that is how I think Muslims are feeling. Also Show nested quote +According to the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, in 2010, the number of American Muslims involved in terrorist acts dropped by more than half compared to 2009. More non-Muslims than Muslims were involved in terrorist attacks overall. http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/feisal_abdul_rauf/2011/03/at_peter_kings_muslim_hearings_focus_on_our_common_enemies_extremism_and_fear.htmlInteresting statement, this doesn't directly relate to your post (the link) but it goes to show Muslims aren't and always the terrorists and have been in the decline.
Stop making things up, Muslims are not even close to the most prosecuted religious group.
Where are the North Korean suicide bombers. Burmese ones, Tha ones? Zimabwean ones?
What about the prosecuted Christians who live in Islamic Apartheid states like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, how come they dont blow stuff up in the name of jesus.
|
Islam is fine. Violence in the name of Allah is not fine.
Do we all at least agree on this? I'm not sure how you can argue against it, but I just wanted to make sure what common ground is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
