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Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion. -semioldguy |
On September 15 2012 14:44 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 13:53 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
Edit: Just because you can interpret a law in some way does not mean it's actually used that way in our justice system. In Canada, you have to be saying some damn disgusting shit for it to be considered hate speech. Especially in an humorous setting, joking around with stereotypes won't get you in trouble.
I think you're using "joking around" very loosely here and you should tread more carefully with that word. It is getting late so I will be done with this but I'd just simply like to leave with the fact that all law is subjective and it can change based on bias and viewpoints but I would feel rather comfortable (and a friend of mine who I happened to have a similar discussion today with during lunch on campus, he studies law, would also feel comfortable) being the prosecutor on such a case because there are so many case studies and examples (mainly from the black side of the table through the 40's 70's) where you can draw comparisons. Any who all I said was that we, as a people, are alienizing Islam and Muslims horrendously while doing similar things to different factions would exploit yourself to rage and anger from the entire world. Goodnight !! :D Never liked hatespeech laws myself, or indeed anything that puts an importance on ethnic/racial/sexual identity ahead of other things. The one thing I could make an exception for is the spreading of lies that are likely to harm. For example if you go around saying that 'Group X are eating children en masse' and its patently untrue and liable to increase tension, then yeah that's something that could be looked at. Even with legitimate news media outlets printing falsehoods, in that this has a negative effect on how people perceive the world/certain groups. Kind of hard to enforce anything like that but the media in the West gets away with a ridiculous amount of lazy/straight-up-wrong reporting, often with an agenda behind it. In essence that filmaker is the kind of guy I never have to meet to know that he is a grade A prick and an idiot. However being smacked down for being an idiot is all the censure that should be required (except of course if he breached his bail conditions as has been reported as possible) The sad thing is, the reaction by the Muslim world, the subsequent showing of the disturbances in the mass media, often without reference to the many, many moderate and tolerant Muslims is going to result in yet more anti-Islamic sentiment. This is coming from the genuinely hateful, and the people who are just ignorant of the situation through no real fault of their own.
You talk about the large segment of muslims who are moderate, but fact is they are always silent when the killing happens. there were no large scale protests after islamic Jihad attacks which claimed thousands of lives. There are large scale protests when a random idiot makes a film about their prophet.
Fact of the matter is there is no way to know if the masses of muslims disagree with the attacks. Considering the support of goverments of Egypts and Sudan for the protests I would doubt very much so.
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On September 15 2012 20:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's funny how the same people who say that freedom of speech should allow you to make such movies are the same that ask all the protesters to be imprisonned, fined or I don't know what.
If you can make a racist movie because freedom of speech is holy ground, you can make a demo because you don't like whatever you don't like. Mind you, 99,99% of those people are absolutely peaceful.
I'm not supporting these idiots and their medieval beliefs and thought, and I agree this is completely ridiculous, but you guys should be a bit consistent. And the fact some extremists killed this ambassador doesn't mean all the protesters and protests are violent.
They were talking about violent protestors though, not just protestors. Nobody was saying all the peaceful protestors should be scooped up and fined because what they're doing is perfectly legal.
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On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then.
Put the Numbers in Perspective
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined
in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons?
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On September 15 2012 21:26 Bahamut1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then. Put the Numbers in Perspective More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons?
In iraq alone, american sanctions killed 500,000 children in 10 years......then again america is not muslims so you can probably disregard that fact and disassociate that from their religion.
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On September 15 2012 21:49 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:26 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then. Put the Numbers in Perspective More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons? In iraq alone, american sanctions killed 500,000 children in 10 years......then again america is not muslims so you can probably disregard that fact and disassociate that from their religion.
So blame the US, not saddam continuing to avoid inspections. Good one bro.
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On September 15 2012 21:49 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:26 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then. Put the Numbers in Perspective More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons? In iraq alone, american sanctions killed 500,000 children in 10 years......then again america is not muslims so you can probably disregard that fact and disassociate that from their religion.
Would those sanctions have anything to do with them attacking another muslim country?
Also, 500.000 is one of those famous leftie-numbers, based entirely on the total numbers of deaths, regardless of the cause of death.
Post-Iraq war, the left started to chalk up literally every death in Iraq to the US occupation. Guy got hit by a car? US.
Guy got a heart attack? US.
Guy shoots himself? US.
Guy gets cancer? US.
I think the record is still held by some guy on the forum that claimed the US had killed more people than the total population of Iraq.
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On September 15 2012 21:52 Bahamut1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:49 sekritzzz wrote:On September 15 2012 21:26 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then. Put the Numbers in Perspective More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons? In iraq alone, american sanctions killed 500,000 children in 10 years......then again america is not muslims so you can probably disregard that fact and disassociate that from their religion. So blame the US, not saddam continuing to avoid inspections. Good one bro.
Would be nice if you didn't flip flop and edit your post to something even more ridiculous after discovering that your previous statement was completely wrong.Since you previous asked for a source here it is with a little summary of the report.
Children between the ages 0-5 killed by US sanctions from 1990-1998 (8 years) estimate from a minimum of 100,000 to 500,000. The most correct estimate according to this report is that 227,000 children died as a direct cause of the sanctions by analyzing pre-sanctions and post-sanctions deaths.
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/garfield/dr-garfield.html
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On September 15 2012 22:02 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:52 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 15 2012 21:49 sekritzzz wrote:On September 15 2012 21:26 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then. Put the Numbers in Perspective More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons? In iraq alone, american sanctions killed 500,000 children in 10 years......then again america is not muslims so you can probably disregard that fact and disassociate that from their religion. So blame the US, not saddam continuing to avoid inspections. Good one bro. Would be nice if you didn't flip flop and edit your post to something even more ridiculous after discovering that your previous statement was completely wrong.Since you previous asked for a source here it is with a little summary of the report. Children between the ages 0-5 killed by US sanctions from 1990-1998 (8 years) estimate from a minimum of 100,000 to 500,000. The most correct estimate according to this report is that 227,000 children died as a direct cause of the sanctions by analyzing pre-sanctions and post-sanctions deaths.
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/garfield/dr-garfield.html
On the other hand mr Saddam killed thousands of people every month (Kurds anyone)?
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On September 15 2012 22:02 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:52 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 15 2012 21:49 sekritzzz wrote:On September 15 2012 21:26 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then. Put the Numbers in Perspective More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons? In iraq alone, american sanctions killed 500,000 children in 10 years......then again america is not muslims so you can probably disregard that fact and disassociate that from their religion. So blame the US, not saddam continuing to avoid inspections. Good one bro. Would be nice if you didn't flip flop and edit your post to something even more ridiculous after discovering that your previous statement was completely wrong.Since you previous asked for a source here it is with a little summary of the report. Children between the ages 0-5 killed by US sanctions from 1990-1998 (8 years) estimate from a minimum of 100,000 to 500,000. The most correct estimate according to this report is that 227,000 children died as a direct cause of the sanctions by analyzing pre-sanctions and post-sanctions deaths.
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/garfield/dr-garfield.html
Ah. But here we go 
The Oil-for-Food Programme (OFF), established by the United Nations in 1995 (under UN Security Council Resolution 986)[1] was established with the stated intent to allow Iraq to sell oil on the world market in exchange for food, medicine, and other humanitarian needs for ordinary Iraqi citizens without allowing Iraq to boost its military capabilities.
The fact Iraq ( read Saddam ) cheated is not their fault. the sanctions were meant to cripple their army. Not with the aim of killing kids. Not to mention it was a UN endorsed program, not just the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_706
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Programme#Background_and_design
the US did not shoot, or starve kids. Also you randomly took the highest number of poossible deaths, not taking into account that half of it would be more appropiate.
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On September 15 2012 21:53 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:49 sekritzzz wrote:On September 15 2012 21:26 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then. Put the Numbers in Perspective More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons? In iraq alone, american sanctions killed 500,000 children in 10 years......then again america is not muslims so you can probably disregard that fact and disassociate that from their religion. Would those sanctions have anything to do with them attacking another muslim country? Also, 500.000 is one of those famous leftie-numbers, based entirely on the total numbers of deaths, regardless of the cause of death. Post-Iraq war, the left started to chalk up literally every death in Iraq to the US occupation. Guy got hit by a car? US. Guy got a heart attack? US. Guy shoots himself? US. Guy gets cancer? US. I think the record is still held by some guy on the forum that claimed the US had killed more people than the total population of Iraq.
To say that the US is the direct cause of every death is naive and I would agree but to go over the top and make facetious tones with the tone that the US isn't usually to blame is another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
This is highly off topic though so let's try to move back around but there is no doubt Iraq is decades behind what it could have been because of the US occupation.
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The US is another problem. One problem doesn't excuse the other or warrant it worthless of discussion.
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The earlier discussion seemed to be a mostly reasonable tangent from the assassination and the protest that provided cover for it. This "who is worst" pissing contest between US middle eastern policy, middle eastern dictators, and religious fanatics past and present is a bit ridiculous.
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lol us didn't kill half a million people in Irak, that'd be genocide and it wasn't
edit : its not "leftie" propaganda, but internet islamic propaganda rather
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On September 15 2012 22:24 Irrelevant Label wrote:
The earlier discussion seemed to be a mostly reasonable tangent from the assassination and the protest that provided cover for it. This "who is worst" pissing contest between US middle eastern policy, middle eastern dictators, and religious fanatics past and present is a bit ridiculous.
Because the root of the situation stems from the issues you mentioned above, thus a discussion of this nature is bound to lead to aforementioned topics.
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On September 15 2012 21:26 Bahamut1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 20:38 Silidons wrote:On September 12 2012 20:00 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 12 2012 19:57 Eisregen wrote:
OK let's look at the facts:
Online film about islam, also equalling it with "cancer"
Anyone surprised some religious dudes snapped? -No, not really.
Man, one should know, that things like this can happen, especially as simple-minded believers are ppl you won't be able to discuss anything with. They will just break out in anger and kill you. Christianity gets bashed all the time, no rockets fired at people. Fact of the matter is Islam is extremly intolerant and paranoid about critisism ( justified, or as in this case rubbish) Muhammed cartoons > Riots Muhammed movie > riots African teddy bear named muhammed > Riots Such a downright violent religion, and people wonder why its known as the religion of violence and opression ...ever hear of the Inquisition? Islam now is equivalent to Catholocism then. Put the Numbers in Perspective More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined in 35 years of Inquisition killed 5000. On 9-11 alone 3000 died. Anymore silly comparisons?
The irony of the post is impressive.
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Russian Federation266 Posts
On September 15 2012 20:16 Biff The Understudy wrote:
It's funny how the same people who say that freedom of speech should allow you to make such movies are the same that ask all the protesters to be imprisonned, fined or I don't know what.
If you can make a racist movie because freedom of speech is holy ground, you can make a demo because you don't like whatever you don't like. Mind you, 99,99% of those people are absolutely peaceful.
I'm not supporting these idiots and their medieval beliefs and thought, and I agree this is completely ridiculous, but you guys should be a bit consistent. And the fact some extremists killed this ambassador doesn't mean all the protesters and protests are violent.
We've been specifically speaking about people who either act violently or make explicit calls in support of violent actions (like posters with calls to behead people). Everyone else is free to protest in any way they want.
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On September 15 2012 22:26 fluidin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 22:24 Irrelevant Label wrote:
The earlier discussion seemed to be a mostly reasonable tangent from the assassination and the protest that provided cover for it. This "who is worst" pissing contest between US middle eastern policy, middle eastern dictators, and religious fanatics past and present is a bit ridiculous. Because the root of the situation stems from the issues you mentioned above, thus a discussion of this nature is bound to lead to aforementioned topics.
The root of the situation stems from the NATO 'democracy at gunpoint' implemented in the region during the last few years and Libya being turned into a tribal state run by tribes and islamic fundamentalists
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Russian Federation266 Posts
On September 15 2012 22:44 ahappystar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 22:26 fluidin wrote:On September 15 2012 22:24 Irrelevant Label wrote:
The earlier discussion seemed to be a mostly reasonable tangent from the assassination and the protest that provided cover for it. This "who is worst" pissing contest between US middle eastern policy, middle eastern dictators, and religious fanatics past and present is a bit ridiculous. Because the root of the situation stems from the issues you mentioned above, thus a discussion of this nature is bound to lead to aforementioned topics. The root of the situation stems from the NATO 'democracy at gunpoint' implemented in the region during the last few years and Libya being turned into a tribal state run by tribes and islamic fundamentalists
It's pretty unreasonable to say that NATO is at fault for this and not Gaddafi who systematically oppressed everyone who opposed his dictatorship for forty years.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/images/Sydney%20protest.jpg)
