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Please don't use this thread as a platform to argue about religion. -semioldguy |
On September 16 2012 11:55 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 10:34 Jisall wrote:On September 16 2012 10:14 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 10:01 Jisall wrote:Personally I would like to see it. Perviously one one or two people would insult Mohammed for fear of rebuttal. A whole group doing it, that would just show that we don't give a fuck about their "protests", we won't back down. Has that ever stopped the Islamic world from acting like morons the moments their ''prophet'' is insulted. In the end we have to accept it is a extremly violent and unpredictable religion, we should also take this into account before we accept more of those people as immigrants. The outburst is that of a child. By showing the film we give them the option of getting over themselves or extending the tantrum, either way sticking to our guns is the way to go. It's childish, but that doesn't mean you can discipline an entire society like you would a child. Yes, the West doesn't give a shit about protests in the Middle East. Message received. We can all congratulate ourselves on sticking up for freedom of speech. But it certainly won't improve relations with the Islamic world. All it does it legitimize the perception of the West as anti-Islam.
What would you like to see done about this?
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In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime.
Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo.
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On September 16 2012 12:29 Euronyme wrote:In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime. Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo.
I think many European countries are infringing on freedom of speech. It's really terrifying, honestly.
Here's an example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735
a 19 year old being arrested for a Facebook post? Is freedom of speech a joke in the UK?
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On September 16 2012 02:08 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:56 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:46 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:On September 16 2012 00:42 Bahamut1337 wrote:[quote] http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/123179/Australian Muslims attacked police, waved Al-Quada Flags and chanted behaead those who insult islam, and Osama Osama we are all Osama. Peaceful Disgusting. This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal. It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition. Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation. The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group. As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence. Great. So since those demos are about hate and not violence, you should respect them and stick to your principles. They have nothing to do with the ambassador who got killed in a far away country by completely different people. As for Muslims, I don't feel that I have to protest everytime some Christian nutcase does something stupid. I don't feel that any Christian is my "brother" and that I am responsible for their acts. Did you protest when Breivik killed 70 people? No. Why should my cousin protest because some people he despise killed someone for bad reason that he doesn't agree with in a country that is as far from him as Norway is from you? Why on EARTH should a European or American muslim protest and make demos because some salafists killed someone in Lybia? That's fucking ridiculous. Because there aren't hundreds of thousands of Breivik's, or mass murderers, but there are hundreds of thousands of extremist Muslims that want nothing more than the death of Western civilization... These extremists cause problems and we have to stand against all of them, not just Muslims, but Christians etc. We cannot continue to sit by and ignore it. How do you not see this? How do you not see how the extremists are ruining Muslim countries? You're completely missing the point. There are quite a lot of people who have ideas I don't find much better than the ones of extremist Muslim. The whole Tea Party for example. Extremist are ruining Muslim countries and Muslims life in our countries because people are not clever enough between a fraction of people and the immense majority who don't share any of those ideas. They just see "the Muslims" and dmix everything up. The Tea Party isn't destroying their cities, or burning buildings, or killing innocent people. These protests are not peaceful, and should not be the reaction to a hate filled video. Nonetheless, I hope one day that we can all just get along, but that's a long stretch.
Anything to the right of a standard Euro social democratic party is barbarism in Biff's playbook, and he's not too sure about them either.
Muslim countries and too many Muslims outside of those countries are like the American South pre-1960s and the racist whites living there. In the South, there was a big minority of white people who thought segregation = great and we'll hurt anyone who tries to change it. Black kid looks at a white woman "wrong," let's beat him up and/or lynch him. Arrest black people if they try to enter the "white" area at the restaurant or on the bus or train or at a public bathroom. The majority of white people thought violence = not so great but segregation still = great, so they kept voting for politicians and appointing officials who'd turn a blind eye to the violence. And the underlying cause - racism - was never addressed. That's just the way things are in the South, Southern pride, don't lump them all in with the KKK, not all Southern whites are like that, the good whites (who were still racist and supported segregation) should be distinguished from the bad ones who kill people, blah blah blah blah. The majority created a society that allowed and encouraged the minority to be violent.
The bad things didn't stop happening until the rest of the US stopped buying the bullshit and said in court rulings and public opinion "this is bullshit and all of you bear responsibility for how your society runs and you're going to stop it or we'll stop it for you." And then we did. And there isn't legal segregation in the South anymore, and racism is not publicly socially acceptable.
Muslims have a responsibility to stop other Muslims from being racist, xenophobic, religiously supremacist and violent because of it; putting no pressure on the Muslim majority just ensures that the minority will continue to be violent and the majority will continue to maintain a society where the minority is allowed and encouraged to be violent.
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On September 16 2012 12:28 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 11:55 starfries wrote:On September 16 2012 10:34 Jisall wrote:On September 16 2012 10:14 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 10:01 Jisall wrote:Personally I would like to see it. Perviously one one or two people would insult Mohammed for fear of rebuttal. A whole group doing it, that would just show that we don't give a fuck about their "protests", we won't back down. Has that ever stopped the Islamic world from acting like morons the moments their ''prophet'' is insulted. In the end we have to accept it is a extremly violent and unpredictable religion, we should also take this into account before we accept more of those people as immigrants. The outburst is that of a child. By showing the film we give them the option of getting over themselves or extending the tantrum, either way sticking to our guns is the way to go. It's childish, but that doesn't mean you can discipline an entire society like you would a child. Yes, the West doesn't give a shit about protests in the Middle East. Message received. We can all congratulate ourselves on sticking up for freedom of speech. But it certainly won't improve relations with the Islamic world. All it does it legitimize the perception of the West as anti-Islam. What would you like to see done about this?
legally, there isn't anything we can really do unless it falls under "hate speech" in the country of origin. but I'd like the people who make these videos to realize that they're not doing anything to help matters.
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On September 16 2012 12:45 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 12:28 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 11:55 starfries wrote:On September 16 2012 10:34 Jisall wrote:On September 16 2012 10:14 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 10:01 Jisall wrote:Personally I would like to see it. Perviously one one or two people would insult Mohammed for fear of rebuttal. A whole group doing it, that would just show that we don't give a fuck about their "protests", we won't back down. Has that ever stopped the Islamic world from acting like morons the moments their ''prophet'' is insulted. In the end we have to accept it is a extremly violent and unpredictable religion, we should also take this into account before we accept more of those people as immigrants. The outburst is that of a child. By showing the film we give them the option of getting over themselves or extending the tantrum, either way sticking to our guns is the way to go. It's childish, but that doesn't mean you can discipline an entire society like you would a child. Yes, the West doesn't give a shit about protests in the Middle East. Message received. We can all congratulate ourselves on sticking up for freedom of speech. But it certainly won't improve relations with the Islamic world. All it does it legitimize the perception of the West as anti-Islam. What would you like to see done about this? legally, there isn't anything we can really do unless it falls under "hate speech" in the country of origin. but I'd like the people who make these videos to realize that they're not doing anything to help matters.
I guarantee you that the people who made the video know what's going on and don't care.
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On September 16 2012 12:34 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 12:29 Euronyme wrote:In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime. Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo. I think many European countries are infringing on freedom of speech. It's really terrifying, honestly. Here's an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735a 19 year old being arrested for a Facebook post? Is freedom of speech a joke in the UK?
What do you mean by infringing? It's a national law. In most European countries there are clauses when it comes to harassment, threats, hate speech and such. Basically what's known as common sense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
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On September 16 2012 12:50 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 12:45 starfries wrote:On September 16 2012 12:28 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 11:55 starfries wrote:On September 16 2012 10:34 Jisall wrote:On September 16 2012 10:14 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 10:01 Jisall wrote:Personally I would like to see it. Perviously one one or two people would insult Mohammed for fear of rebuttal. A whole group doing it, that would just show that we don't give a fuck about their "protests", we won't back down. Has that ever stopped the Islamic world from acting like morons the moments their ''prophet'' is insulted. In the end we have to accept it is a extremly violent and unpredictable religion, we should also take this into account before we accept more of those people as immigrants. The outburst is that of a child. By showing the film we give them the option of getting over themselves or extending the tantrum, either way sticking to our guns is the way to go. It's childish, but that doesn't mean you can discipline an entire society like you would a child. Yes, the West doesn't give a shit about protests in the Middle East. Message received. We can all congratulate ourselves on sticking up for freedom of speech. But it certainly won't improve relations with the Islamic world. All it does it legitimize the perception of the West as anti-Islam. What would you like to see done about this? legally, there isn't anything we can really do unless it falls under "hate speech" in the country of origin. but I'd like the people who make these videos to realize that they're not doing anything to help matters. I guarantee you that the people who made the video know what's going on and don't care.
uh... okay. you seem certain. but I would contend that there are people who genuinely think that the Islamic world needs to "be taught a lesson" and that this sort of thing is the way to do it.
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I find it funny that nobody has any idea what's going on in the country but they'll read a report from the press and take it all in like it's 100% true. Nobody deserved to die but god all the generalizations? It's just ridiculous. grow up guys
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On September 16 2012 11:55 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 10:34 Jisall wrote:On September 16 2012 10:14 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 10:01 Jisall wrote:Personally I would like to see it. Perviously one one or two people would insult Mohammed for fear of rebuttal. A whole group doing it, that would just show that we don't give a fuck about their "protests", we won't back down. Has that ever stopped the Islamic world from acting like morons the moments their ''prophet'' is insulted. In the end we have to accept it is a extremly violent and unpredictable religion, we should also take this into account before we accept more of those people as immigrants. The outburst is that of a child. By showing the film we give them the option of getting over themselves or extending the tantrum, either way sticking to our guns is the way to go. It's childish, but that doesn't mean you can discipline an entire society like you would a child. Yes, the West doesn't give a shit about protests in the Middle East. Message received. We can all congratulate ourselves on sticking up for freedom of speech. But it certainly won't improve relations with the Islamic world. All it does it legitimize the perception of the West as anti-Islam.
Trying to scale the walls of a U.S. Embassy makes me care little what relations are like with the Islamic World, they obviously care little for diplomatic standards.
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On September 16 2012 13:45 Jisall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 11:55 starfries wrote:On September 16 2012 10:34 Jisall wrote:On September 16 2012 10:14 Bahamut1337 wrote:On September 16 2012 10:01 Jisall wrote:Personally I would like to see it. Perviously one one or two people would insult Mohammed for fear of rebuttal. A whole group doing it, that would just show that we don't give a fuck about their "protests", we won't back down. Has that ever stopped the Islamic world from acting like morons the moments their ''prophet'' is insulted. In the end we have to accept it is a extremly violent and unpredictable religion, we should also take this into account before we accept more of those people as immigrants. The outburst is that of a child. By showing the film we give them the option of getting over themselves or extending the tantrum, either way sticking to our guns is the way to go. It's childish, but that doesn't mean you can discipline an entire society like you would a child. Yes, the West doesn't give a shit about protests in the Middle East. Message received. We can all congratulate ourselves on sticking up for freedom of speech. But it certainly won't improve relations with the Islamic world. All it does it legitimize the perception of the West as anti-Islam. Trying to scale the walls of a U.S. Embassy makes me care little what relations are like with the Islamic World, they obviously care little for diplomatic standards.
yeah, we have no need to negotiate with savages.
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and whether or not you care about our relationship with them, it still affects us. bad relationship = more people climbing the walls.
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I thought only imagery that idolizes the prophet above that of god or of the teaching he professed was suppose to be a offense? Obviously and inflammatory video or image trying to poke fun at another person religion might aggrivate the target individual (like the Onions recent artwork depiciting other religous icons perhaps), but such a video does not idolize Muhammed, right?
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On September 16 2012 12:53 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 12:34 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 12:29 Euronyme wrote:In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime. Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo. I think many European countries are infringing on freedom of speech. It's really terrifying, honestly. Here's an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735a 19 year old being arrested for a Facebook post? Is freedom of speech a joke in the UK? What do you mean by infringing? It's a national law. In most European countries there are clauses when it comes to harassment, threats, hate speech and such. Basically what's known as common sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
Common sense? Wow. I'd never move to a country where someone can be arrested for "hate speech". It's ridiculous. I'm a strong believer of the concept "I don't agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
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On September 16 2012 15:31 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 12:53 Euronyme wrote:On September 16 2012 12:34 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 12:29 Euronyme wrote:In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime. Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo. I think many European countries are infringing on freedom of speech. It's really terrifying, honestly. Here's an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735a 19 year old being arrested for a Facebook post? Is freedom of speech a joke in the UK? What do you mean by infringing? It's a national law. In most European countries there are clauses when it comes to harassment, threats, hate speech and such. Basically what's known as common sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech Common sense? Wow. I'd never move to a country where someone can be arrested for "hate speech". It's ridiculous. I'm a strong believer of the concept "I don't agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
I think there has to be a line that shouldn't be crossed somewhere. For example, spreading misinformation that directly leads to the death of innocents.
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On September 16 2012 15:31 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 12:53 Euronyme wrote:On September 16 2012 12:34 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 12:29 Euronyme wrote:In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime. Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo. I think many European countries are infringing on freedom of speech. It's really terrifying, honestly. Here's an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735a 19 year old being arrested for a Facebook post? Is freedom of speech a joke in the UK? What do you mean by infringing? It's a national law. In most European countries there are clauses when it comes to harassment, threats, hate speech and such. Basically what's known as common sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech Common sense? Wow. I'd never move to a country where someone can be arrested for "hate speech". It's ridiculous. I'm a strong believer of the concept "I don't agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
lol
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 16 2012 15:31 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 12:53 Euronyme wrote:On September 16 2012 12:34 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 12:29 Euronyme wrote:In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime. Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo. I think many European countries are infringing on freedom of speech. It's really terrifying, honestly. Here's an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735a 19 year old being arrested for a Facebook post? Is freedom of speech a joke in the UK? What do you mean by infringing? It's a national law. In most European countries there are clauses when it comes to harassment, threats, hate speech and such. Basically what's known as common sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech Common sense? Wow. I'd never move to a country where someone can be arrested for "hate speech". It's ridiculous. I'm a strong believer of the concept "I don't agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Yes, well most of the rest of the developed world accepts that words can have an effect, and certain types should not be acceptable.
Freedom of speech is not, and never has been, truly absolute.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 16 2012 15:46 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 15:31 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 12:53 Euronyme wrote:On September 16 2012 12:34 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 12:29 Euronyme wrote:In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime. Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo. I think many European countries are infringing on freedom of speech. It's really terrifying, honestly. Here's an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735a 19 year old being arrested for a Facebook post? Is freedom of speech a joke in the UK? What do you mean by infringing? It's a national law. In most European countries there are clauses when it comes to harassment, threats, hate speech and such. Basically what's known as common sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech Common sense? Wow. I'd never move to a country where someone can be arrested for "hate speech". It's ridiculous. I'm a strong believer of the concept "I don't agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Yes, well most of the rest of the developed world accepts that words can have an effect, and certain types should not be acceptable. Freedom of speech is not, and never has been, truly absolute.
Same in America, though not to the same extent as a lot of other countries. We think hate speech is okay, but we still have laws against defamation, incitement, "fighting words," and provocation.
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On September 16 2012 15:31 Voltaire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 12:53 Euronyme wrote:On September 16 2012 12:34 Voltaire wrote:On September 16 2012 12:29 Euronyme wrote:In most European countries hate speech is an exception in the freedom of speech and is actually a crime. Sure we should stick to our freedom of speech, but pissing off extremists just because you can and thereby causing more civilian deaths is even more childish imo. I think many European countries are infringing on freedom of speech. It's really terrifying, honestly. Here's an example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19604735a 19 year old being arrested for a Facebook post? Is freedom of speech a joke in the UK? What do you mean by infringing? It's a national law. In most European countries there are clauses when it comes to harassment, threats, hate speech and such. Basically what's known as common sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech Common sense? Wow. I'd never move to a country where someone can be arrested for "hate speech". It's ridiculous. I'm a strong believer of the concept "I don't agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Europe is fortunately still not a country, contrary to popular belief.
I completely agree with that notion, until we get to the guy saying "fuck you niggers I hate niggers everywhere, let's pick up our guns and kill them all. I will personally go to your home, nigger, and put a gun in your mouth a pull the trigger".
I don't think such behaviour is acceptable, and I guess that's where our beliefs differ.
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On September 16 2012 12:42 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 02:08 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:56 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:46 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 01:29 ranshaked wrote:On September 16 2012 01:19 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 16 2012 00:57 frontliner2 wrote:
[quote]
Disgusting.
This whole event is making more non-muslims dislike muslims even more. Stop making generalization. If you make conclusions about "muslims" because of some idiots playing at Al Qaeda with black flags, you are the racist one. There are 5-10% muslims in Western countries. That's millions and millions of people. An enormous majority doesn't support this shit, doesn't care that some idiot made some video and hate Al Qaeda just as you do. Thinking that this is a justification for the huge amount of racism happening in your country and in mine towards Muslim and immigrants in general is plain wrong. I have muslim family, muslim friends, they are good, enlightened and loyal French citizens and people who, for a reason or another dislike them because of where they come from of the God they prey are just retards. I don't feel that anybody should hate me because of what some Christian extremists might do. If a Muslim comes to me and say that Breivik is a reason why he hates me I will think he is both a racist and an idiot. Same here. I believe the issue is that even moderate Muslims are not necessarily sympathizing with the extremists, but they also aren't condoning the extremists' action. With that said, why are there not more anti-extremist protests by Muslims? I'm more worried about the lack of sympathy for freedom of speech, and the disappointing number of Muslims standing up against the extremists. Because it has nothing to do with them? Why a moderate muslim should be involved in a conflict involving a racist who say they are a cancer in our society and some people who go ape shit nuts with paranoid slogans in those demos? By the way, why aren't you protesting against this video? If there are reasons to protest against those demos, I guess we should protest against this video. Unless Muslims should protest because salafists killed someone in Lybia? Seems unreal. It has everything to do with them. They consider themselves to be brothers of Islam, regardless of extremism or not. In America, we have the Westboro Baptist Church, which appear moderate compared to extreme Muslims, but when the WBC protests funerals and the streets you will see ten times their number as an opposition. Muslims should be protesting to protect their religion and way of life from the extremists. When you sit quietly and show apathy toward the situation, all you do is hurt your chances at being understood by Western society. Think of it this way: When your family does something insane, cruel etc, you shun them, you distance yourself from that person and make sure they know what they've done is wrong. You don't stand there and do nothing, or completely ignore the situation. The only people that can rid extremists are the moderates and progressives of that group. As for the video, it's a freedom of speech issue. It isn't violence, it is just hate, but I can accept hate, I cannot accept violence. Great. So since those demos are about hate and not violence, you should respect them and stick to your principles. They have nothing to do with the ambassador who got killed in a far away country by completely different people. As for Muslims, I don't feel that I have to protest everytime some Christian nutcase does something stupid. I don't feel that any Christian is my "brother" and that I am responsible for their acts. Did you protest when Breivik killed 70 people? No. Why should my cousin protest because some people he despise killed someone for bad reason that he doesn't agree with in a country that is as far from him as Norway is from you? Why on EARTH should a European or American muslim protest and make demos because some salafists killed someone in Lybia? That's fucking ridiculous. Because there aren't hundreds of thousands of Breivik's, or mass murderers, but there are hundreds of thousands of extremist Muslims that want nothing more than the death of Western civilization... These extremists cause problems and we have to stand against all of them, not just Muslims, but Christians etc. We cannot continue to sit by and ignore it. How do you not see this? How do you not see how the extremists are ruining Muslim countries? You're completely missing the point. There are quite a lot of people who have ideas I don't find much better than the ones of extremist Muslim. The whole Tea Party for example. Extremist are ruining Muslim countries and Muslims life in our countries because people are not clever enough between a fraction of people and the immense majority who don't share any of those ideas. They just see "the Muslims" and dmix everything up. The Tea Party isn't destroying their cities, or burning buildings, or killing innocent people. These protests are not peaceful, and should not be the reaction to a hate filled video. Nonetheless, I hope one day that we can all just get along, but that's a long stretch. Anything to the right of a standard Euro social democratic party is barbarism in Biff's playbook, and he's not too sure about them either. Muslim countries and too many Muslims outside of those countries are like the American South pre-1960s and the racist whites living there. In the South, there was a big minority of white people who thought segregation = great and we'll hurt anyone who tries to change it. Black kid looks at a white woman "wrong," let's beat him up and/or lynch him. Arrest black people if they try to enter the "white" area at the restaurant or on the bus or train or at a public bathroom. The majority of white people thought violence = not so great but segregation still = great, so they kept voting for politicians and appointing officials who'd turn a blind eye to the violence. And the underlying cause - racism - was never addressed. That's just the way things are in the South, Southern pride, don't lump them all in with the KKK, not all Southern whites are like that, the good whites (who were still racist and supported segregation) should be distinguished from the bad ones who kill people, blah blah blah blah. The majority created a society that allowed and encouraged the minority to be violent. The bad things didn't stop happening until the rest of the US stopped buying the bullshit and said in court rulings and public opinion "this is bullshit and all of you bear responsibility for how your society runs and you're going to stop it or we'll stop it for you." And then we did. And there isn't legal segregation in the South anymore, and racism is not publicly socially acceptable. Muslims have a responsibility to stop other Muslims from being racist, xenophobic, religiously supremacist and violent because of it; putting no pressure on the Muslim majority just ensures that the minority will continue to be violent and the majority will continue to maintain a society where the minority is allowed and encouraged to be violent.
Good post.
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OMG ambassador killed by "freedom fighters" - talk about told ya so... How can morons like Soros sponsor "freedom fighters" by giving weapons to monkeys from mountains and feel safe that those monkeys are smart enough to be controlled - they just came from their mountains to kill and earn - they don't care for religion and just use it to cover their stupidity of profit. Anyway I get tired of this and just don't care anymore cuz it will never change just like us trying to get profit from anything...
RIP to all those innocent people killed in Libya.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/000/681/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg)
