EPTPresident Obama Re-Elected - Page 592
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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rogzardo
610 Posts
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Darknat
United States122 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On September 27 2012 09:40 Darknat wrote: For me this election is about whether or not the United States turn it's back on it's heritage: the American Dream. Do you want the government doing everything for you or do you want the government out of your lives? A vote for Obama is a vote against the American Dream and a vote for Romney is a vote for the American Dream. Well, the American Dream thinks that the greatest generation are a bunch of entitled moochers... | ||
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HunterX11
United States1048 Posts
On September 27 2012 09:40 Darknat wrote: For me this election is about whether or not the United States turn it's back on it's heritage: the American Dream. Do you want the government doing everything for you or do you want the government out of your lives? A vote for Obama is a vote against the American Dream and a vote for Romney is a vote for the American Dream. Obama very much wants to represent a new form of the American Dream but that seems to have fizzled quite a bit since his first campaign. The problem is that there's no place for a black President in the America Dream of our heritage. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On September 27 2012 09:40 Darknat wrote: For me this election is about whether or not the United States turn it's back on it's heritage: the American Dream. Do you want the government doing everything for you or do you want the government out of your lives? A vote for Obama is a vote against the American Dream and a vote for Romney is a vote for the American Dream. The American Dream is the idea that people can make their way up and succeed through their work. You know there are measures of social mobility, right? And that the U.S.'s degree of social mobility is quite low compared to other developed countries? Here's a recent OECD report explaining exactly that. Let me quote one of its conclusions: Redistributive and income support policies are associated with greater intergenerational social mobility. Obama's policies are the ones that support the American Dream, not Romney's. | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
On September 27 2012 06:50 xDaunt wrote: There was an article that I saw a while ago stating that republicans/conservatives were often more difficult to get ahold of relative to democrats/liberals for polling purposes. When pollsters make the calls during the 5-7 pm window that they typically use, republican/conservative households are more likely to be working still or eating dinner as a family, thus they are less likely to respond. This is anecdotal, but I get calls from pollsters daily and ignore every one of them for those very reasons (plus I just don't want to be bothered period). Quite frankly, I don't think it really matters why republicans are underrepresented in the polling samples. Just the mere fact that they are should raise some questions about the accuracy of the polls. Who knows, it may not matter in the end. However, let's say Romney wins six weeks from now as I have predicted. Given these polls that are out there today showing Obama way ahead, what are we going to conclude regarding what happened? Is it likely that Romney will have affirmatively done something to cause a stunning turnaround? Or is it more likely that all of these polls are garbage? I'm thinking that the latter is more likely (of course, this only matters if Romney wins). That's a plausible explanation. I agree that ultimately it wouldn't matter why R's are being underrepresented. I'm just not sure they actually are. I think we might be going through a phase where liberals/Obama voters/Democrats are more willing to self-identify with the Democratic Party than conservatives/Romney voters/Republicans are willing to self-identify with the Republican Party. The polls that aren't deliberately weighting by Party ID are using the same methodology that they were earlier this summer, when polls were showing more or less a dead heat and there wasn't this apparent problem with Party ID sampling. Something has changed with the way people are responding to the questions they're asked. Polls this far out aren't *that* predictive of the end margin. If the final polls are off, then something went wrong. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On September 27 2012 09:40 Darknat wrote: For me this election is about whether or not the United States turn it's back on it's heritage: the American Dream. Do you want the government doing everything for you or do you want the government out of your lives? A vote for Obama is a vote against the American Dream and a vote for Romney is a vote for the American Dream. Are we talking The American Dream as in the Edward Albee play? | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
The voter-ID crap is absurd. The only reason to do it this close to an election is to kick voters out. Do it after this election so people have 4 years to get new IDs if they need them. Making it harder for eligible voters to vote is undermining the fundamental guidelines of democracy. (Stuff like the closing of ID offices in democratic regions while extending hours in republican regions is also mind-boggling). Fox-News. Who listens to this crap. I agree fully with free-speech but media like that doesn't classify as news anymore. It's informative in a way, but from everything I've seen on reddit/other sites, they only report statistics that are skewed in the republican's favour or stats that rarely tell the full story. Fair and Balanced my ass. Electronic Voting Machines: Sort of scares me that there is no way of verification that they're working properly. There's no access to the underlying code because it's proprietary, there's no way of telling if there's a bug or not in the code, there's no secondary counting method. If you want an open voting process, have the voting machines print out a receipt AFTER you vote on them that can be checked against what you voted for, then place those receipts into a secondary ballot box. If any major discrepancy from expected results or any particularly close result occurs, manually count those paper ballots. Romney: http://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRomneySays/ http://www.quickmeme.com/Relatable-Romney/ That just about sums up my thoughts on romney. He's someone so far from the middle class as to look stupid and awkward when he tries to relate to them. People making 200k+ a year are middle class? Capital gains are taxed at a stupidly low rate even though 50% of capital gains are income to the 0.1%? Stuff like that makes me rather mad, especially since the USA's policies of late have been rubbing off on canada. | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
On September 27 2012 12:42 Lmui wrote: The voter-ID crap is absurd. The only reason to do it this close to an election is to kick voters out. Do it after this election so people have 4 years to get new IDs if they need them. Making it harder for eligible voters to vote is undermining the fundamental guidelines of democracy. (Stuff like the closing of ID offices in democratic regions while extending hours in republican regions is also mind-boggling). Well, yes, I agree it's a thinly veiled attempt to keep certain groups of US citizens away from the polls. Oddly, today I was looking up the status of the Wisconsin ID offices to see what had come of that. According to this article, there was enough outcry over the seemingly partisan decision to close certain offices and the state decided to keep them open. http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9OTEI1O0.htm Does anyone know if this was the final decision, or if offices were closed later? Although from that story, it sounds like the final decision was to keep them open. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On September 27 2012 12:42 Lmui wrote: My thoughts as a Canadian: The voter-ID crap is absurd. The only reason to do it this close to an election is to kick voters out. Do it after this election so people have 4 years to get new IDs if they need them. Making it harder for eligible voters to vote is undermining the fundamental guidelines of democracy. (Stuff like the closing of ID offices in democratic regions while extending hours in republican regions is also mind-boggling). Fox-News. Who listens to this crap. I agree fully with free-speech but media like that doesn't classify as news anymore. It's informative in a way, but from everything I've seen on reddit/other sites, they only report statistics that are skewed in the republican's favour or stats that rarely tell the full story. Fair and Balanced my ass. Electronic Voting Machines: Sort of scares me that there is no way of verification that they're working properly. There's no access to the underlying code because it's proprietary, there's no way of telling if there's a bug or not in the code, there's no secondary counting method. If you want an open voting process, have the voting machines print out a receipt AFTER you vote on them that can be checked against what you voted for, then place those receipts into a secondary ballot box. If any major discrepancy from expected results or any particularly close result occurs, manually count those paper ballots. Romney: http://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRomneySays/ http://www.quickmeme.com/Relatable-Romney/ That just about sums up my thoughts on romney. He's someone so far from the middle class as to look stupid and awkward when he tries to relate to them. People making 200k+ a year are middle class? Capital gains are taxed at a stupidly low rate even though 50% of capital gains are income to the 0.1%? Stuff like that makes me rather mad, especially since the USA's policies of late have been rubbing off on canada. I don't really understand how people can make a living without an I.D. to begin with, why do so many legal adults not have one? | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On September 27 2012 09:48 DoubleReed wrote: Well, the American Dream thinks that the greatest generation are a bunch of entitled moochers... The so-called "greatest generation" has earned their benefits. The "entitlement generation", which is the younger generation of today is full of "entitled moochers" who think they are the "greatest generation". They are wrong. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On September 27 2012 12:42 Lmui wrote: My thoughts as a Canadian: The voter-ID crap is absurd. The only reason to do it this close to an election is to kick voters out. Do it after this election so people have 4 years to get new IDs if they need them. Making it harder for eligible voters to vote is undermining the fundamental guidelines of democracy. (Stuff like the closing of ID offices in democratic regions while extending hours in republican regions is also mind-boggling). Being Canadian, I guess you wouldn't know this, but IDs typically expire around every 4 years .... | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
On September 27 2012 14:08 kmillz wrote: I don't really understand how people can make a living without an I.D. to begin with, why do so many legal adults not have one? tbh I don't understand a lot of things people do  It is amazing to read that there are millions of legal adults in this country that the government knows about who simply don't have an ID. It would be easier, now that we're really integrating it into the voting process, if the federal government just issued everyone a mandatory photo ID card that worked for identification in all states.Who are these people? They might be students -- some states accept college IDs as a form of voter ID, others don't. They might be retired. They might be unemployed. Also, their ID might not be valid. There has been some discussion over whether or not women who have an ID with their maiden name on it and have since gotten married would have trouble at the polls. Or perhaps they have moved to a different state and had been able to get by with their old ID. IDs expire after some time. If they have been at the same job for a long time, or if they have been unemployed for a long time, they might not have gotten a new one. Typically, these are going to be lower-class people with fewer resources, and they might not know about these new rules. (kind of obviously... anyone who drives would have to have an ID, at least in theory) On September 27 2012 14:10 Kaitlin wrote: The so-called "greatest generation" has earned their benefits. The "entitlement generation", which is the younger generation of today is full of "entitled moochers" who think they are the "greatest generation". They are wrong. It's largely the "greatest generation" and the Boomers who decided to cut taxes while they were working, but now want to keep the entitlement programs running for themselves as they retire but cut them off for everyone else. (or at least, that is the plan the Republicans are promoting with regards to Social Security and people over vs under 55) I say that's a bunch of crap. Don't force the rest of us to pay for these programs then not get the benefits, just because those generations made really short-sighted political decisions when they came into power. Not sure if that is what you're talking about or if you are talking about a more general "sense of entitlement." But that is my opinion on the generations and entitlement programs... | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On September 27 2012 14:12 Kaitlin wrote: Being Canadian, I guess you wouldn't know this, but IDs typically expire around every 4 years .... Which is a great reason to give people months to get IDs, instead of anytime during the 4 years in between this election and the next presidential one right? Since they expire after 4 years if someone got an ID after the election it would be good for the next one, but if they got one now, they would probably just have to do so again before the next election. More inconvenience, a new barrier to voting, for people who vote more than 50% Democrat every 4 years? Who does that benefit? I really don't get your point, that IDs expire that often is a good reason to not enact these laws for this election so there's time for all the people who have expired IDs to get one that will be valid and so there's plenty of time to ensure awareness of these new... certainly don't want to call them poll taxes, restrictions? anti fraud measures?. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On September 27 2012 14:36 Signet wrote: tbh I don't understand a lot of things people do It is amazing to read that there are millions of legal adults in this country that the government knows about who simply don't have an ID. It would be easier, now that we're really integrating it into the voting process, if the federal government just issued everyone a mandatory photo ID card that worked for identification in all states.Who are these people? They might be students -- some states accept college IDs as a form of voter ID, others don't. They might be retired. They might be unemployed. Also, their ID might not be valid. There has been some discussion over whether or not women who have an ID with their maiden name on it and have since gotten married would have trouble at the polls. Or perhaps they have moved to a different state and had been able to get by with their old ID. IDs expire after some time. If they have been at the same job for a long time, or if they have been unemployed for a long time, they might not have gotten a new one. Typically, these are going to be lower-class people with fewer resources, and they might not know about these new rules. (kind of obviously... anyone who drives would have to have an ID, at least in theory) It's largely the "greatest generation" and the Boomers who decided to cut taxes while they were working, but now want to keep the entitlement programs running for themselves as they retire but cut them off for everyone else. (or at least, that is the plan the Republicans are promoting with regards to Social Security and people over vs under 55) I say that's a bunch of crap. Don't force the rest of us to pay for these programs then not get the benefits, just because those generations made really short-sighted political decisions when they came into power. Not sure if that is what you're talking about or if you are talking about a more general "sense of entitlement." But that is my opinion on the generations and entitlement programs... What puzzles me more is how does the government know that they don't have a form of an ID? | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On September 27 2012 15:22 kmillz wrote: What puzzles me more is how does the government know that they don't have a form of an ID? If Texas state Republicans had their way (and they did before the law was struck down), the only valid ID for the purposes of voting would be government issued ID. The government would have to know | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10721 Posts
Fun thing in Switzerland is: The by far biggest "practical" reason to get a Passport is that you want to go on Holydays in the US :p.... | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
This is how we do elections/ID in canada. The simplest option is a single piece of government ID (driver's license is $75 in BC for 5 years, not a particularly large sum). Health card is valid from the day you're born to the day you die, same with other things like birth certificate, certificate of citizenship etc. and option 3 is relatively simple too. We haven't had any serious cases of voter fraud up here (a few allegations/cases of election fraud though) and in general, I think the system works fine. I fail to see how requiring mandatory ID in order to vote 40 days before an election is held is considered reasonable. The political structure in the USA seems so corrupt in some places that it's a game of money and backroom deals to see who gets into a elected position. Also: AND http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/full-transcript-mitt-romney-secret-video | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
I'm a Romney supporter and I do oppose voter fraud, but things like this really shouldn't be coming up so close to an election. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
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