He paid a tax rate of about 14.1%, largely due to capital gains rate. In 2011 his income was $13.7 million, and he and his wife donated about $4 million to charity. On average over 20 years he donated 13.45% of income to charity.
WE WANT FULL TAX FORMS NOT A SUMMARY!
Good to see Romney doing this. If this works I'm going to be really happy. I mean, just thinking about it from a strategic perspective, slowroll the tax forms so Dems trip over themselves trying to discredit you (looking at you Reid) and then POW, right in the kisser. Respect.
How is paying less than 15% tax something to be proud of? That is disgustingly low for a multi millionaire, regardless of how they earned that money.
Romey pays the same % of income tax as someone who makes $30k a year here in Canada and less than someone making $8,700 – $35,350 in the US. That my friend is not something to be proud of.
He invested smart and is a smart man who worked hard his whole life to get where he is AND donates more money every year than you'll probably make in your entire life time. Get more jelly.
You forgot to mention the part where his dad paid for all his stuff and essentially gave him all his opportunities. Also, how hard do you think it is to make money as a private equity investor when your family is heavily tied to other rich investors? No doubt, he's successful because he's not a complete idiot and a lazy bum, but to suggest that he is "smart and worked hard," and that's the key to his riches is stupid.
Also, he pays the same tax amount as somebody that makes half as much as he does if they don't pile it all as "capital gains." According to the math on wikipedia, he pays a rate less than somebody that makes $90,000 a year. That's just ridiculous.
He paid a tax rate of about 14.1%, largely due to capital gains rate. In 2011 his income was $13.7 million, and he and his wife donated about $4 million to charity. On average over 20 years he donated 13.45% of income to charity.
WE WANT FULL TAX FORMS NOT A SUMMARY!
Good to see Romney doing this. If this works I'm going to be really happy. I mean, just thinking about it from a strategic perspective, slowroll the tax forms so Dems trip over themselves trying to discredit you (looking at you Reid) and then POW, right in the kisser. Respect.
How is paying less than 15% tax something to be proud of? That is disgustingly low for a multi millionaire, regardless of how they earned that money.
Romey pays the same % of income tax as someone who makes $30k a year here in Canada and less than someone making $8,700 – $35,350 in the US. That my friend is not something to be proud of.
A 15% effective tax rate only means that he paid 15% personally. The businesses he owns also paid taxes on the same stream of income.
And no, people that make $35K in the US do not pay 15% in federal income tax.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
Its a comedy show but it basicly shows the correct point
So here's a question for xDaunt, the conservative authority in this thread.
What harm exactly would come about if the US counted capital gains as normal taxable income?
The primary problem that comes to mind is the simple volatile nature of investments. For example, I used to play poker for a living, and it was sort of absurd that if you won X dollars you would be taxed on it, and then if you lost those X dollars later, which is very possible in a game with variance, you would still owe those taxes on the money you no longer had. It's difficult to come up with a solution to this at least, unless you could count losses as deductions later I suppose. In either case we could still have a highly progressive tax rate on capital gains so that grandmothers investing for retirement don't take a huge hit, but those earning millions a year do.
As for Romneys taxes. Why on earth didnt he release this 4 months ago when it was damaging his campaign. he payed the same % over the last 20 years then he did the 2 he released? So why on earth didnt he just come out and say that. The spin ups coming from everyone speculation were infinitely worse then this. No one expected it to be "the same" when he went through so much trouble to hide them.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
He paid a tax rate of about 14.1%, largely due to capital gains rate. In 2011 his income was $13.7 million, and he and his wife donated about $4 million to charity. On average over 20 years he donated 13.45% of income to charity.
WE WANT FULL TAX FORMS NOT A SUMMARY!
Good to see Romney doing this. If this works I'm going to be really happy. I mean, just thinking about it from a strategic perspective, slowroll the tax forms so Dems trip over themselves trying to discredit you (looking at you Reid) and then POW, right in the kisser. Respect.
How is paying less than 15% tax something to be proud of? That is disgustingly low for a multi millionaire, regardless of how they earned that money.
Romey pays the same % of income tax as someone who makes $30k a year here in Canada and less than someone making $8,700 – $35,350 in the US. That my friend is not something to be proud of.
A 15% effective tax rate only means that he paid 15% personally. The businesses he owns also paid taxes on the same stream of income.
And no, people that make $35K in the US do not pay 15% in federal income tax.
God, shut up about the "double taxation" bullshit. We've already established that it's pretty much a moot point, and all you're doing is using it to justify some stupid notion that, somehow, it brings taxrates up on investors to crazy amounts. Either put some fucking math behind this crap or stop talking about it.
Also, $35k will net a taxrate of ~15% before deductions and credits. With deductions and credits, the effective taxrate hits 15% around $90k for married filing jointly.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
The missile shield isn't going to stop Russia from driving tanks into Poland. It won't even stop Russia from nuking Poland.
What will stop Russia is the US defense treaty that comes with the missile shield.
Uh there already is such a thing as the "North Atlantic Treaty Organization" also known as NATO, of which Poland and the Czech Republic were members before the proposed missile shield.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
On September 22 2012 04:03 jdseemoreglass wrote: So here's a question for xDaunt, the conservative authority in this thread.
What harm exactly would come about if the US counted capital gains as normal taxable income?
The primary problem that comes to mind is the simple volatile nature of investments. For example, I used to play poker for a living, and it was sort of absurd that if you won X dollars you would be taxed on it, and then if you lost those X dollars later, which is very possible in a game with variance, you would still owe those taxes on the money you no longer had. It's difficult to come up with a solution to this at least, unless you could count losses as deductions later I suppose. In either case we could still have a highly progressive tax rate on capital gains so that grandmothers investing for retirement don't take a huge hit, but those earning millions a year do.
There are a lot of reasons not to tax capital gains as a regular income. The most important of these is to encourage investment spending, which has incredibly important and powerful positive economic externalities. Jacking up the tax rate on capital gains means jacking up the tax rate on investment spending. Economics 101 dictates that increasing the cost of an activity decreases the incidence of that activity. So if we tax capital gains income like regular income, thereby more than doubling the effective tax on capital gains (in most situations, because let's face it, most investment spending comes from the rich because they have the money), investment spending will be depressed, liquidity will dry up, and we'll be stuck again in another economic environment where capital is difficult to come by.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
The missile shield isn't going to stop Russia from driving tanks into Poland. It won't even stop Russia from nuking Poland.
What will stop Russia is the US defense treaty that comes with the missile shield.
Uh there already is such a thing as the "North Atlantic Treaty Organization" also known as NATO, of which Poland and the Czech Republic were members before the proposed missile shield.
Wanted to type the same thing.
The real shield and not some mere high tech toy against something like an unlikely aggression from Russia is the Nato and the nations upholding it.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
On September 22 2012 04:03 jdseemoreglass wrote: So here's a question for xDaunt, the conservative authority in this thread.
What harm exactly would come about if the US counted capital gains as normal taxable income?
The primary problem that comes to mind is the simple volatile nature of investments. For example, I used to play poker for a living, and it was sort of absurd that if you won X dollars you would be taxed on it, and then if you lost those X dollars later, which is very possible in a game with variance, you would still owe those taxes on the money you no longer had. It's difficult to come up with a solution to this at least, unless you could count losses as deductions later I suppose. In either case we could still have a highly progressive tax rate on capital gains so that grandmothers investing for retirement don't take a huge hit, but those earning millions a year do.
There are a lot of reasons not to tax capital gains as a regular income. The most important of these is to encourage investment spending, which has incredibly important and powerful positive economic externalities. Jacking up the tax rate on capital gains means jacking up the tax rate on investment spending. Economics 101 dictates that increasing the cost of an activity decreases the incidence of that activity. So if we tax capital gains income like regular income, thereby more than doubling the effective tax on capital gains (in most situations, because let's face it, most investment spending comes from the rich because they have the money), investment spending will be depressed, liquidity will dry up, and we'll be stuck again in another economic environment where capital is difficult to come by.
Why would a tax on investment gains reduce the amount of investment? Are the rich going to stuff their money in their collective mattresses?
Yes, it will slow down the trickle-up of wealth. Which would leave the middle class with more money - money spent on consumption - money that is the actual driver of the economy. All the investments in the world don't matter when there's nobody who can afford to buy your company's products.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
He paid a tax rate of about 14.1%, largely due to capital gains rate. In 2011 his income was $13.7 million, and he and his wife donated about $4 million to charity. On average over 20 years he donated 13.45% of income to charity.
WE WANT FULL TAX FORMS NOT A SUMMARY!
Good to see Romney doing this. If this works I'm going to be really happy. I mean, just thinking about it from a strategic perspective, slowroll the tax forms so Dems trip over themselves trying to discredit you (looking at you Reid) and then POW, right in the kisser. Respect.
How is paying less than 15% tax something to be proud of? That is disgustingly low for a multi millionaire, regardless of how they earned that money.
Romey pays the same % of income tax as someone who makes $30k a year here in Canada and less than someone making $8,700 – $35,350 in the US. That my friend is not something to be proud of.
A 15% effective tax rate only means that he paid 15% personally. The businesses he owns also paid taxes on the same stream of income.
And no, people that make $35K in the US do not pay 15% in federal income tax.
God, shut up about the "double taxation" bullshit. We've already established that it's pretty much a moot point, and all you're doing is using it to justify some stupid notion that, somehow, it brings taxrates up on investors to crazy amounts. Either put some fucking math behind this crap or stop talking about it.
Also, $35k will net a taxrate of ~15% before deductions and credits. With deductions and credits, the effective taxrate hits 15% around $90k for married filing jointly.
Double taxation is real. If you really like I can try to scan a finance textbook and post it for you later.
Here's an easy example though:
A company makes $100 in EBIT (earnings before interest and taxes).
$50 goes to the debt holder and is completely deducted from the company's taxes as a normal expense. The $50 is then taxed only at the personal level the same as ordinary income (no higher than 35%).
The remaining $50 then gets taxed at the corporate level (nominally 35%) - that leaves $32.50 for the owner which can be passed to the owner through a higher stock price or a dividend. Either way that $32.50 gets taxed again. If at a 15% rate that further reduces income to $27.63 and raises the effective tax rate on that $50 of income to 44.7%.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
The missile shield isn't going to stop Russia from driving tanks into Poland. It won't even stop Russia from nuking Poland.
What will stop Russia is the US defense treaty that comes with the missile shield.
<-not fully informed on this situation but...
Couldn't that Defense Treaty stand alone, without the missile shield?
Sure, but the US should leverage that treaty and its promise to protect these countries to secure favors such as a location to put an ABM base.
Leveraging the NATO treaty to bully countries into doing what you want. That's going to work out oh so well.
You'd imagine the Bush years would have taught you all something about foreign policy.
There was no bullying involved in the missile shield treaties. Hell, I don't recall seeing any expressions of relief from the leaders of Poland and the Czech Republic about Obama pulling the plug on the project. To the contrary, they have hammered Obama for pulling the rug out from under them.
As for Bush, say whatever you want, but Bush effectively mobilized international support for American interests and got shit done. Like I have turned blue in the face saying, Obama has been a miserable failure in this regard.
No, they're laughing at Obama for being weak and folding on the missile defense issue and more or less hanging our Eastern European allies out to dry.
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
The missile shield isn't going to stop Russia from driving tanks into Poland. It won't even stop Russia from nuking Poland.
What will stop Russia is the US defense treaty that comes with the missile shield.
<-not fully informed on this situation but...
Couldn't that Defense Treaty stand alone, without the missile shield?
Sure, but the US should leverage that treaty and its promise to protect these countries to secure favors such as a location to put an ABM base.
Sorry - but his statement is "An ABM system isn't going to protect these countries from Russia walking in." If a defense treaty is going to stop Russia, then why put in the ABM system? If the ABM system is in, and Russia wants to break the treaty, that ABM system isn't going to stop anything.
I suppose the only way to actually slow Russia is to have full foward military bases, but that's a bag of its own worms...
On September 22 2012 04:03 jdseemoreglass wrote: So here's a question for xDaunt, the conservative authority in this thread.
What harm exactly would come about if the US counted capital gains as normal taxable income?
The primary problem that comes to mind is the simple volatile nature of investments. For example, I used to play poker for a living, and it was sort of absurd that if you won X dollars you would be taxed on it, and then if you lost those X dollars later, which is very possible in a game with variance, you would still owe those taxes on the money you no longer had. It's difficult to come up with a solution to this at least, unless you could count losses as deductions later I suppose. In either case we could still have a highly progressive tax rate on capital gains so that grandmothers investing for retirement don't take a huge hit, but those earning millions a year do.
There are a lot of reasons not to tax capital gains as a regular income. The most important of these is to encourage investment spending, which has incredibly important and powerful positive economic externalities. Jacking up the tax rate on capital gains means jacking up the tax rate on investment spending. Economics 101 dictates that increasing the cost of an activity decreases the incidence of that activity. So if we tax capital gains income like regular income, thereby more than doubling the effective tax on capital gains (in most situations, because let's face it, most investment spending comes from the rich because they have the money), investment spending will be depressed, liquidity will dry up, and we'll be stuck again in another economic environment where capital is difficult to come by.
Why would a tax on investment gains reduce the amount of investment? Are the rich going to stuff their money in their collective mattresses?
They'll do any number of different things, including spending money on new toys or investing the money offshore (in other countries) where they won't have to worry about the tax.
Yes, it will slow down the trickle-up of wealth. Which would leave the middle class with more money - money spent on consumption - money that is the actual driver of the economy. All the investments in the world don't matter when there's nobody who can afford to buy your company's products.
I'd love to hear an explanation on how this money typically spent on investment will somehow work its way to the middle class. If the capital dries up, companies have less money to create and sell their products, which means that the middle class takes it in the shorts in terms of lost jobs and lower wages.
On September 22 2012 03:16 Gorsameth wrote: [quote]
Yeah... im sure a missile defense that Russia hates in your backyard while there in walking distance really makes you feel very secure...
It absolutely makes you secure because it brings your country under the protection of the US military by treaty. You can't get better protection than that, particularly when you have a bad Russian neighbor that has a long history of invading you.
It would make sense for a country like Georgia or Moldova but I really don't think that the Soviets are going to invade Poland or the Czech Republic any time soon.
In the immediate future, there's not much risk. However, if Russia ever did turn aggressive again (and I would bet money that they will once they sort out some of their domestic problems), it wouldn't take much for Russia to run over the nations bordering it allowing for Russia to move into Poland or the Czech Republic.
The rocket shield isnt there to protect nations. Do you really think its going to stop Russia from driving 1000 tanks down the road? Your smarter then this. That "shield' is nothing more then a show of American force against a nation they happend to not like 50 years ago.
The missile shield isn't going to stop Russia from driving tanks into Poland. It won't even stop Russia from nuking Poland.
What will stop Russia is the US defense treaty that comes with the missile shield.
<-not fully informed on this situation but...
Couldn't that Defense Treaty stand alone, without the missile shield?
Sure, but the US should leverage that treaty and its promise to protect these countries to secure favors such as a location to put an ABM base.
Leveraging the NATO treaty to bully countries into doing what you want. That's going to work out oh so well.
You'd imagine the Bush years would have taught you all something about foreign policy.
There was no bullying involved in the missile shield treaties. Hell, I don't recall seeing any expressions of relief from the leaders of Poland and the Czech Republic about Obama pulling the plug on the project. To the contrary, they have hammered Obama for pulling the rug out from under them.
As for Bush, say whatever you want, but Bush effectively mobilized international support for American interests and got shit done. Like I have turned blue in the face saying, Obama has been a miserable failure in this regard.
yeah I think I recall that overwhelming support, which lead to the creation of freedom fries...
EPT
